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Quote (Not3in1 @ July 17 2007,05:40) Quote (kejonn @ July 16 2007,20:05) Not well versed in Greek, but I find it interesting that “only begotten” is used for monogenes in the case of both Yeshua and Isaac. In other instances, the word “only” (Lk 7:12, 8:42) and “only child” (Lk 9:38). Now, we know Isaac was NOT Abraham's only child, but he was the only child of both Abraham and Sarah. And he, like Yeshua, was a child of promise. There are many parallels between Isaac and Yeshua.
I think that throwing the word “begotten” in mixes people up. I think the key is that the one spoken of is unique, as is the case of Isaac. In other cases, the use of monogenes indicated that there was only one child, but I believe that the translators decided to add “begotten” to show a form of uniqueness. I don't know that is was a valid thing to do.
Interesting. Thanks KJ!I was just chatting with someone about the similarities of Isaac and Jesus.
OK – random firing here – should I be calling “Jesus” YESHUA?
Isaac was not Abraham's only child, but he was the one Abraham loved.
Gen 22:2
“Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region……”I think there is a tremendous message in the parallels of Isaac and Jesus (Yeshua). Namely, that Isaac is a biological son of Abraham and so was Yeshua a biological Son of God Almighty.
God provided the lamb for sacrifice – his only son whom he loved. Now Abraham, after passing the test, had his son restored to him from the dead (figuratively speaking). What we were not able to do, God did for us. Praise Him!
Not3,Thanks yourself. Those were just some thoughts I picked up here and there. And as far as calling Jesus “Yeshua”, I'm sure he recognizes both equally! It has just been something I've done as a symbolism of rediscovering who he is.
I do find it hard to type sometimes after exclusively using “Jesus” for 20 years.
Hmm, as far as being the one Abraham loved, true. I don't think he was given a chance to love his illegitimate child. I know all things happen according to God's will, but I think He allows us to make choices that affect us adversely. The decision to initially disbelieve God's promise of a child resulted in the Arabic nation, and we know what that has caused.
As far as the Isaac sacrifice story, I still marvel at this statement:
Genesis 22:8 – Abraham said, “God will provide for Himself the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” So the two of them walked on together.
Now I know Yeshua was not sacrificed on an alter, but you should also take note that God provided a ram that day, not a lamb. Some say there is no difference, but there is. The ram is an uncastrated adult male sheep, while the lamb is a younger sheep. The true lamb that took Isaac's place came to earth thousands of years later. That is what is meant by
John 8:56 – “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”
It was on that very day that Isaac was willing to sacrifice his son that Abraham was promised that his seed would bless the nations, which means all the world. That seed was eventually Yeshua, the lamb that took Isaac's place.
Hi,
God begat His Son.
Then He provided a body for him and sent that Son into the world.Heb 10
” 5Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7Then I said, 'Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, O God.' “[a] 8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them” (although the law required them to be made). 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. “That Son was reborn from above uniting him to God eternally at the Jordan.
We follow him.Begotten seed Then?
A “MAN” needed, (to be elected}
NOT yet FOUND TO OPEN THE BOOK of seals,
Can only be one that prevailes to be begotten,Rev 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon. Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look' one of the tribe of Juda,
The tribe of Juda did not exist yet in Abrahams Days? thereon. but was the promised seed to come from the loins of Abraham, in Jacob? being Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof
2Sa 22:8 (The election) Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations of heaven moved and shook, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down; and darkness [was] under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: and he was seen upon the wings of the wind. And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, [and] thick clouds of the skies. Through the brightness before him were coals of fire kindled. The LORD thundered from heaven, and the most High uttered his voice. And he sent out arrows, and scattered them; lightning, and discomfited them.
All things begin..verse 16, And the channels of the sea appeared, the *foundations of the world were discovered*, at the rebuking of the LORD, at the blast of the breath of his nostrils. (A begotten Son)17 He sent from above, he took me; he drew me out of many waters;Moses was up for election; for the first begotten that should be decleared the Son Of God, by the resurrection of Dead??Hbr 7:14 For [it is] evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Hbr 3:2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses [was faithful] in all his house.
Hbr 3:3 For this [man] was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
Hbr 3:5 And Moses verily [was] faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;Quote (Oxy @ Nov. 21 2006,05:53)
I think it's interesting that God foreknew people. In other words, we were known of God before birth, yet before birth we were no man's son.
Rom 8:29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son, for Him to be the First-born among many brothers.
BTW, The same goes for Jesus Christ!
Before birth he was no one's son.
However he was foreknown!Mary>>>I have to disagree that before his human birth Jesus was no one's son. He might not have been another MAN's “son,” but before his human birth, he certainly was HIS GOD/Father's SON.
Recall Jesus' heartfelt prayer throughout John 17 where he began “Father…”
In the course of that chapter, Jesus asks HIS GOD/Father to allow him, after his earthly life is done, to have merely the same position he had in heaven before he came to earth. For his faithfulness, of course, HIS GOD/Father gave him more than he had before, and exalted him to a position even higher than he ever had before in heaven. However, for aeons unknown, he was God's “Only-begotten Son” in heaven. He is the one to whom HIS GOD/Father is speaking in Genesis 1, when he says “Let US make man in our image…”
God was not talking to himself in that verse: )
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