What someone thinks of heaven net

Participant

This link leads to a forum where a member with a so-called “reputation beyond repute” gives his summary about heaven.net.nz

His stats are as follows:

Name: yeshuasavedme
Status: Senior Veteran
Posts: 4,941
Blessings: 16,694
Reps: 203,054,887 (power: 203,063)

Here is what he says:

Heaven.net.nz is arian in doctrine, and is a sect which denies the Deity of JEsus Christ [JW's are also Arian], which is broken off of the “Armstrong “WWCOG”. Beware of them. Lots of people who have left that cult have recorded their testimonies online. It is as horrible as anything you can imagine which sets up an authoritaian cult of absolute unquestioning obedience, and uses the name of Jesus falsely to make people “submit” to them.

Is this slander or delusion or what?

May 9, 2009 at 1:07 pm#130425

Lightenup

Participant

That just tells me someone is afraid of what is going on here and wants to create fear in others. Maybe we are doing something right, eh, t8?

May 9, 2009 at 2:43 pm#130429

Participant

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,08:57)

This link leads to a forum where a member with a so-called “reputation beyond repute” gives his summary about heaven.net.nz

His stats are as follows:

Name: yeshuasavedme
Status: Senior Veteran
Posts: 4,941
Blessings: 16,694
Reps: 203,054,887 (power: 203,063)

Here is what he says:

Is this slander or delusion or what?

Hi t8

He speaks the truth about your faith lining up with the Arians and the JWs concerning the nature of Jesus.

If you look closely his comments are about the WWCOG of which the false prophet Wienland came out of.

Whats all the fuss anyways. You say that Trinitarians and their churches are of the Whore Babylon and those that go to their churches are decieved and enslaved to their false doctrine.

Heck you have even called Trinitarians ministers of satan.

Maybe you should pray for those you consider your enemys.

May 9, 2009 at 6:15 pm#130438

charity

Participant

Quote (t8 @ May 10 2009,00:57)

This link leads to a forum where a member with a so-called “reputation beyond repute” gives his summary about heaven.net.nz

His stats are as follows:

Name: yeshuasavedme
Status: Senior Veteran
Posts: 4,941
Blessings: 16,694
Reps: 203,054,887 (power: 203,063)

Here is what he says:

Is this slander or delusion or what?

smile….its probably another whining whimp without contact details t8….

The script haS been written
The rollplayers are employed
tAKE 2
children stand
for the great judgment
the foolishest set of EARS
and the battle begins

take 3
wooden grandfathers made real live puppets lie
An the shock is… noses truthfully never stop growing.

May 9, 2009 at 11:22 pm#130450

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 10 2009,02:43)

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,08:57)

This link leads to a forum where a member with a so-called “reputation beyond repute” gives his summary about heaven.net.nz

His stats are as follows:

Name: yeshuasavedme
Status: Senior Veteran
Posts: 4,941
Blessings: 16,694
Reps: 203,054,887 (power: 203,063)

Here is what he says:

Is this slander or delusion or what?

Hi t8

He speaks the truth about your faith lining up with the Arians and the JWs concerning the nature of Jesus.

If you look closely his comments are about the WWCOG of which the false prophet Wienland came out of.

Whats all the fuss anyways. You say that Trinitarians and their churches are of the Whore Babylon and those that go to their churches are decieved and enslaved to their false doctrine.

Heck you have even called Trinitarians ministers of satan.

Maybe you should pray for those you consider your enemys.

Thanks WJ, but it is way off and very naughty of you to agree with it.

First off it says that Heaven Net is promoting that Jesus is not divine and that we are an offshoot of the WWCOG. Both of these are absolutely false (lies) and are actually slander and slander is serious in the eyes of God.

This website promotes the truth that denominations are just divisions for the Body of Christ to join and renderthe body less effective by division. I am a believer in the Body of Christ and even more so in the one who heads her. I believe we need to get back to basics and throw away man-made traditions and doctrines that have crept in over the centuries and that are causing these divisions. This is part of why this web site is here.

These accusations false on just about every level and you agree with it WJ? That has to speak for itself I think. What other things do you agree with that are completely not true?

Also, I use to believe in the Trinity and I do not consider that my early self (believer) was a minister of Satan. In fact God worked through me and that I cannot deny. So I have never said that a person who believes in the Trinity is a minister of Satan, but that they are deceived in this aspect.

However there is truth to false teachers who teach falsely. Admittedly I didn't go round promoting the Trinity Doctrine when I believed it. Even then I stuck to what was written most of the time. When I saw what the scriptures were saying on this, I repented.

John 9:41
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

I think you should apologise to some here for these comments. But I wont hold my breath. But you should at least do it for yourself.

May 10, 2009 at 2:31 am#130452

Cindy

Participant

t8 That really makes me almost mad, when they put the W.W.C.of God down that badly. It was not a cult. When Georg and I were Baptized the Minister made sure that we understood that we were not baptized into a Cult. Nobody ever held a gun to our heads etc. The Church was no worse then the Catholic Church was. Mr. Armstrong made us aware of the Bible, which we never read in the Catholic Church. He used to say:” Take your Bible of the shelf and blow the dust of and study it.” We did and our eyes were opened up. We have learned a lot since that time. The Church had taught some errors
like having to keep the Sabbath. But some things like teaching us about the Holy Days, rather then the pagan Holidays, was hard on our Family. But what does Jesus say in Math. if you love your Mother or Father or Children more then me, you are not worthy of me. The only Holy Day that most celebrate is
Pentecost Sunday. I never look forward to X-Mas or Easter. I find it rather ironic that some even know that Christ was not even born on Dec. 25. And you can even prove when He was born.
Peace and Love Irene

May 10, 2009 at 9:06 am#130459

Participant

Yes Cindy. Some people are very insensitive, but that is not our concern. God gets the last say in all our lives and justice is done in the end. We only need to have faith in God and be led by his Spirit. If others want to slander and look at the speck while ignoring the log in their own eye, then that is truly their problem and not ours.

But every man will do that which is in his heart, so that the day will show up what manner of person we are.

May 10, 2009 at 2:10 pm#130466

Cindy

Participant

t8 Thank you for your encouraging words. I know I should not be so sensitive, and Georg does agree with that. But I am a Woman you know, they are. With God's help that too I will overcome.
Irene

May 10, 2009 at 7:18 pm#130481

Stu

Participant

Go on then. Start a thread in which you prove Jesus was born.

Stuart

May 13, 2009 at 4:38 am#130850

Participant

Hi t8

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Thanks WJ, but it is way off and very naughty of you to agree with it.

First off it says that Heaven Net is promoting that Jesus is not divine and that we are an offshoot of the WWCOG

.
Lets be honest here t8. They did not use the word “divine”. So their statement is true, for as you know they believe there is only “One Deity” or “One True Theos” which you obviously do not believe Jesus is that “Deity” or “The True Theos”. Secondly, it is not quite clear if they were meaning that HN is an offshoot of the WWCOG or the JW’s are the offshoot of the WWCOG which are Arian. I am not agreeing with them if that is what they mean, but I do agree that your faith is Arian.

To me it’s pretty obvious they are not talking about a web site when they say…

Quote

Lots of people who have left that cult have recorded their testimonies online. It is as horrible as anything you can imagine which sets up an authoritaian cult of absolute unquestioning obedience, and uses the name of Jesus falsely to make people “submit” to them.

This appears to be the Watchtower organization they are talking about. In fact the thread this was posted in is titled “Explanation of the trinity for JW's“. Click Here! Maybe you should check your facts before you find yourself slandering another website.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Both of these are absolutely false (lies) and are actually slander and slander is serious in the eyes of God.

Maybe you should clarify what they mean by asking them because if you are wrong in your assessment then that would make you a bearer of false witness and also a slanderer.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Are you serious? Have you seriously looked at how much division and strife this website promotes by all the free posting of every imaginable doctrine to man? And besides your statement of faith found Here could be looked at as manmade tradition having its roots in Arianism and is just another set of doctrines that would divide also. And a lot of churches do not require a membership to speak. Go figure.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

These accusations false on just about every level and you agree with it WJ?

Not at all! I haven’t agreed with anything except their statement that your faith is Arian and you do not believe in the “Deity” of Christ which in their mind means you do not believe Jesus is God.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

That has to speak for itself I think. What other things do you agree with that are completely not true?

I tend to think that creating a thread in defense of something like this makes me wonder what you are afraid of, especially when it is not completely clear in my mind whether the statement is all about this website.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Yes, and on the flip side there are those like Ken (epistimaniac) that was against the trinity, but as he began to look at the whole council of God found in the scriptures became a believer that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is One God, and now like my self believes you are the one deceived.

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

However there is truth to false teachers who teach falsely.

In other words false teachers are ministers of satan, right? I agree!

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Admittedly I didn't go round promoting the Trinity Doctrine when I believed it.

Doesn’t sound like you believed it to me?

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

Even then I stuck to what was written most of the time. When I saw what the scriptures were saying on this, I repented.

Which scriptures caused you to repent? The ones where it says Jesus is the Only Unique Son of God? Trinitarians believe he is the Only Unique Son of God! Was there a scripture that convinced you he was less in nature than his Father? Or did you see some creature bring birth to a lesser creature, and figured if a creature can do this then surely God can?

Quote (t8 @ May 09 2009,19:22)

John 9:41
Jesus said, “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.

I think you should apologize to some here for these comments. But I won’t hold my breath. But you should at least do it for yourself.

Please t8. Why is it that you seem to demand someone repent because they don’t see things the way you do?

“But I tell you who hear me: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you”. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that”. Luk 6:27-33

”Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Luke 6:37

How can you say to your brother, “Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye?” You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. Luke 6:42

We have had some hard disagreements t8, but I can honestly say that I love you bro.

Can you say that to me?

Blessings WJ

May 13, 2009 at 11:45 pm#130945

wild_olive_branch

Participant

t8,

are you a watchmen?

may his blessing manifest upon you
rene

May 13, 2009 at 11:49 pm#130947

wild_olive_branch

Participant

wj,

trinitarians use words like 'heck' slang for hell, or 'hold my breath' which means not going to happen, either say what you mean or mean what you say…………that is why you are a tri nit arian.

come to know the true and living Yah…..and no i am not a jew……..consider me more of a hebrew.

love and prayers to you and yours
rene

May 14, 2009 at 11:04 am#130984

Participant

Thanks wild_olive_branch.

And I never saw the word “tri nit arian” like that before. It even has the word Arian in it.

May 14, 2009 at 2:28 pm#130990

Participant

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,07:04)

Thanks wild_olive_branch.

And I never saw the word “tri nit arian” like that before. It even has the word Arian in it.

It could mean that this is what the Arians called themselves when they were converted to the truth!

May 14, 2009 at 6:45 pm#131001

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WJ,
Scripture is truth[Jn17.17]
There is no trinity taught in scripture.
How is it that you proclaim this as the truth?

May 14, 2009 at 8:32 pm#131012

Cindy

Participant

Quote (wild_olive_branch @ May 14 2009,11:49)

wj,

trinitarians use words like 'heck' slang for hell, or 'hold my breath' which means not going to happen, either say what you mean or mean what you say…………that is why you are a tri nit arian.

come to know the true and living Yah…..and no i am not a jew……..consider me more of a hebrew.

love and prayers to you and yours
rene

Hi and Welcome! Even tho we are Gentiles, we are the Adopted Sons of Jehovah God. We are the Temple of God, and God's Holy Spirit lives in us. W.J. has been around for years. And yes He believes in the Trinity Doctrine. I am happy to have a another Gal on the website. We are outnumbered.
Peace and Love to you, Irene

May 14, 2009 at 11:24 pm#131022

Participant

WorshippingJesus I think you have jumped the gun again and put your foot in your mouth.

Lets look at your accusations and compare them to what I actually said:

WJ said: They did not use the word “divine”.

That is true. They used deity. I looked up the meaning if deity and got this:

A divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers.

So given those meanings, to say that Heaven Net web site is about denying Jesus divinity, that is most certainly false.

I also read this:
The word “deity” derives from the Latin “dea”, (“goddess”), and '”deus”, (“god”), and other Indo-European roots such as from the Sanskrit “deva”, (“god”), “devi”, (“goddess”), “divya”, (“transcendental”, “spiritual”). Related are words for “sky”: the Latin “dies” (“day”) and “divum” (“open sky”), and the Sanskrit “div,” “diu” (“sky,” “day,” “shine”). Also related are “divine” and “divinity,” from the Latin “divinus,” from “divus.”

So further proof that this guy is making false accusations.

WJ said: This appears to be the Watchtower organization they are talking about. In fact the thread this was posted in is titled “Explanation of the trinity for JW's”. Click Here! Maybe you should check your facts before you find yourself slandering another website.

Again WJ, you put your foot in your mouth. I never slandered a web site.

What did I actually say? I said this:
t8: Is this slander or delusion or what?

You see what I said was actually a question, not a statement. I basically said it appears to be slander or delusion, but if not, then what? And I was talking of the writer, not the web site. Two errors in your judgement here.

Also, the writer himself says the following:
Heaven.net.nz is arian in doctrine, and is a sect which denies the Deity of JEsus Christ [JW's are also Arian], which is broken off of the “Armstrong “WWCOG”.

First off, the brackets if used correctly shouldn't change the meaning or subject of the sentence. You should be able to delete the brackets and the sentence should still say the same thing. Brackets are used to add a note, not to change the meaning. In this case, when the brackets are removed, the sentence reads as:

Heaven.net.nz is arian in doctrine, and is a sect which denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, which is broken off of the “Armstrong “WWCOG”.

Now, lets imagine that the writer used the brackets incorrectly. If that is the case, then why would he be saying that The JWs are an offshoot of the WWCOG, when it is common knowledge that it is not? Further, there were actually some WWCOG offshoots promoting Ronald Weinland on the forum, so he could have come to this accusation because of his bias coupled with reading the Ronald Weinland discussion. If this is the case, then he should know better because the forum that he made this statement from is also made up of all sorts (as forums tend to be), and a forum's purpose is to debate and discuss, a sort of iron sharpens iron effect. It is not a creed or statement of belief from the web site that has the forum, especially if you allow members who believe differently to challenge what you have written.

In any case even if the writer was saying that the JWs are WWCOG offshoots, then he got that wrong didn't he? So either way he was wrong, unless he meant something else of which I cannot see at the moment.

WJ: If I said to you that you were a loser and your mother dresses you funny, then you would have a right to say that this is false (I hope). But if I said that and actually meant something else, then you couldn't be at fault for saying it was false even when the person meant something else.

WJ said: I tend to think that creating a thread in defense of something like this makes me wonder what you are afraid of, especially when it is not completely clear in my mind whether the statement is all about this website.

Wrong again WJ. I was simply pointing out how people slander something they do not understand. Do you really think I am at all worried by this guys comments? If I was, then why would I show his comments for all to see? Do I really want to invite worry? I was simply pointing out how some Trinitarians think that they are doing God a favour by slandering those that do not comply with their traditions. Just demonstrating how bias can blind people and giving another example of how Trinitarians judge us incorectly because we do not follow their traditions. A living example can be quite a powerful demonstation when it agrees with your observation about certain people.

WJ said: In other words false teachers are ministers of satan, right? I agree!

Yes false teachers are false and their falseness isn't from God. So knowing this, you condemn yourself. If you put your Trinity teachings together with your understanding of false teachers, then you are the one saying it. You judge yourself. I am not making this conclusion about you, you are judging yourself.

You see WJ, I believe that there is a difference between teaching falsely and believing falsely.

Let's face it, none of us can make the statement that everything we believe is absolutely true. But only some teach falsely. Yes we can all make errors in teaching, but only some (hopefully few) are false teachers. In other words their teaching is deception, not a simple mistake.

So again WJ, you have completely set the standard for judgement of yourself and again you put your foot in your mouth, which you tend to do by becoming overly passionate for the Trinity doctrine and then to support your bias, make false conclusions about those who do not follow your tradition. This is not wise conduct.

WJ said: We have had some hard disagreements t8, but I can honestly say that I love you bro. Can you say that to me?

Absolutely I can say the same. I do not hate anyone here. Sometimes certain members may be annoying at times, but I do not hate anyone. The fact I spend time with people (even those who are annoying at times) shows that I love them by reason of investing my time in them. I usually start with a clean slate with each person each day. I believe in being patient with people and helping people. I could not do this if I had no love. It is love that gives me the strength. It is not my strength, I know that much.

So WJ, if you can be wrong about this, then how much more can you be wrong about other things? Something for you to consider perhaps? Or will pride rise up in your heart with self-rightoeus indignation leading you to defend your actions instead of apologizing for what you have said and agreed with?

We will obviously see a spectacular demonstration of what manner of man you are by your response, won't we?

May 15, 2009 at 5:24 pm#131089

Participant

Hi t8

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

WorshippingJesus I think you have jumped the gun again and put your foot in your mouth.

Lets look at your accusations and compare them to what I actually said:

First of all t8, You are trying to put my foot in my mouth. I have not made any accusations which you will clearly see. I simply gave my viewpoint of what someone else said. I find it rather amusing that you accuse me of accusations when in fact that is what you are doing.

I might also mention it seems a little disingenuous for you to take bits of my post out of context and proceed with accusations.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

Lets be honest here t8. They did not use the word “divine”. So their statement is true, for as you know they believe there is only “One Deity” or “One True Theos” which you obviously do not believe Jesus is that “Deity” or “The True Theos”. Secondly, it is not quite clear if they were meaning that HN is an offshoot of the WWCOG or the JW’s are the offshoot of the WWCOG which are Arian. I am not agreeing with them if that is what they mean, but I do agree that your faith is Arian.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

That is true. They used deity. I looked up the meaning if deity and got this:

A divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers.

So given those meanings, to say that Heaven Net web site is about denying Jesus divinity, that is most certainly false.

So further proof that this guy is making false accusations.

T8, you are postulating. For example, when I say the word “Deity” in reference to Jesus, you know exactly what I mean. So their statement is in know way a lie or slanderous. Maybe you should practice your own words.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

But if I said that and actually meant something else, then you couldn't be at fault for saying it was false even when the person meant something else.

And they cannot be at fault for saying it when they mean something else.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

To me it’s pretty obvious they are not talking about a web site when they say…

Quote

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Again WJ, you put your foot in your mouth. I never slandered a web site.

I think you are trying to put my foot in my mouth again, because I never said you slandered a website.

I said…

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

Maybe you should check your facts before you find yourself slandering another website.

Why are you misrepresenting me? This is usually called “bearing false witness”. But I will be gracious and forgive you and not demand that you repent because it could be you misunderstood me.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

What did I actually say? I said this:
t8: Is this slander or delusion or what?

Ok, we will let the audience decide what you meant by the questions. Were you looking for someone else to answer them for you? I made no error in my judgment, for I never said you slandered a website or the writer.

That could be true. I never defended his position on that. I think it is still unclear as to whom he is directing the following statement too…

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Heaven.net.nz is arian in doctrine, and is a sect which denies the Deity of Jesus Christ, which is broken off of the “Armstrong “WWCOG”.

Quote

Is it the JWs or the WWCOG? At any rate I do not see how a website or HN can set up an “authoritaian cult of absolute unquestioning obedience”. It seems it would take an organization to do that.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

If this is the case, then he should know better because the forum that he made this statement from is also made up of all sorts (as forums tend to be), and a forum's purpose is to debate and discuss, a sort of iron sharpens iron effect. It is not a creed or statement of belief from the web site that has the forum, especially if you allow members who believe differently to challenge what you have written.

This is all speculation. How do you know he hasn’t read your statement of belief Here?
Could it be that based on your writings that he believes that this is more than a forum where iron sharpens iron but in fact is a statement of belief, and promoting the false doctrines of the Arians? He has that right doesn't he?

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Agreed! Why do you think I am defending him in this?

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Then why do you find him at fault? Especially when it is not completely clear if the man himself is being dishonest. He is making statements based on what he thinks he knows whether that is true or false And his definition of the deity of Jesus is different than yours.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Wrong again WJ. I was simply pointing out how people slander something they do not understand.

So now you are admitting that you were pointing out their slander? Did they slander you or not? For earlier you said…

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

You see what I said was actually a question, not a statement. I basically said it appears to be slander or delusion, but if not, then what?

Which is it t8?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

Do you really think I am at all worried by this guys comments? If I was, then why would I show his comments for all to see? Do I really want to invite worry?

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

I was simply pointing out how some Trinitarians think that they are doing God a favour by slandering those that do not comply with their traditions.

So again, you were pointing out how they slander only now it’s because they are Trinitarians and are trying to do God a favor? So do you admit they are slandering or not?

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Just demonstrating how bias can blind people and giving another example of how Trinitarians judge us incorectly because we do not follow their traditions. A living example can be quite a powerful demonstation when it agrees with your observation about certain people.

Now you have your head in the sand. Do you think that you do not have bias? You accuse Trinitarians of being biased and blind yet when they accuse you of such then there is something wrong with their character. How many Arians on this site have judged Trinitarians incorrectly for believing what they do and not following your traditions rooted in Arianism? Hello! Pot calling Kettle black!

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

In other words false teachers are ministers of satan, right? I agree!

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Yes false teachers are false and their falseness isn't from God. So knowing this, you condemn yourself.

Really? So in other words, If you know this then you also condemn yourself! Circular!

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

If you put your Trinity teachings together with your understanding of false teachers, then you are the one saying it. You judge yourself. I am not making this conclusion about you, you are judging yourself.

Right back at you t8. Circular!

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

You see WJ, I believe that there is a difference between teaching falsely and believing falsely.

True, and denying Jesus is “The True God” is of the Arians tradition and is deception. The scriptures say Jesus is God! You should think about this.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

But again you make the false assumption that what I believe is wrong based on your own bias and not on facts found in the scriptures that Jesus is God! Your conclusion about me is false based on your tradition.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 13 2009,00:38)

We have had some hard disagreements t8, but I can honestly say that I love you bro. Can you say that to me? Blessings WJ

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Time with someone is not proof of love. My wife spends time with her boss because she has to, not because she loves her boss, though she does love her.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

I usually start with a clean slate with each person each day. I believe in being patient with people and helping people. I could not do this if I had no love. It is love that gives me the strength. It is not my strength, I know that much.

Praise God. I will be one of the first to admit you are patient simply because of some of the crap that is posted on this site. Especially the patience you have with me in light of your bias against my views. Thank you!

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

So WJ, if you can be wrong about this, then how much more can you be wrong about other things?

You make no sense here. Have you ever been wrong on anything? If you have then by your own words you can be wrong about other things.

Anyway, I have said nothing wrong but only expressed my opinions just as you have.

Quote (t8 @ May 14 2009,19:24)

Something for you to consider perhaps? Or will pride rise up in your heart with self-rightoeus indignation leading you to defend your actions instead of apologizing for what you have said and agreed with?

We will obviously see a spectacular demonstration of what manner of man you are by your response, won't we?

I do not need to defend my actions t8, for I have done nothing wrong. If I have, I invite you and anyone else to show me specifically where I have been. It seems to me you are judging me on a response I hadn’t even made until now. Again, you seem to have this need for someone to apologize to you when they do not agree with you. My heart and conscience is clear, though you are making judgment that it is not.

Blessings WJ

May 15, 2009 at 7:01 pm#131094

NickHassan

Participant

Hi WJ,
Scripture does not teach what you hold.
But something holds you more tightly than scripture.

Is it tradition?

May 15, 2009 at 10:56 pm#131102