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Becky,
I did not say they do not have the spirit of God. Show me where I said that.
What I did say is that they DENY the spirit and the power of the spirit, which they do.The person of the Holy Spirit:
The reason I said to google it, is because I only have a mobile, so my days of quoting large amount of scriptures have gone.But okay, try these verses for a starter.
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. John 16
He will speak, he will guide, he hears.
God has revealed them through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, yes, the deep things of God. For who among men knows the things of a man, except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so, no one knows the things of God, except God’s spirit. 1 Corinthians 2.
The spirit searches the deep things of God, and reveals them.
Where could I go from your Spirit? Or where could I flee from your presence? If I ascend up into heaven, you are there. If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, you are there!” Psalm 139.
Who is where? God is there.
The spirit of God is God’s presence.Is God a person?
Do you not know that you are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in you?……. the temple of God is
holy, and that is what you are. 1 Corinthians 3.What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be
their God, and they will be my people.” 2 Corinthians 6:16Who will live in them?
Is that ‘who’ a person?Plenty more scriptures, but that’s a starter.
As for my perhaps being misinformed regarding the JWs..
JWs instructions to take antidepressants, etc was in their magazine which is world wide (you thought it may have been limited to a local district).
Claiming that God does not heal anymore, etc, is also world wide.Those magazines as you would know, are what they have to believe in and obey.
Quote “Right, so you have the truth and I do not because. Just because right?” Unquote.
T8, I am not a teacher and I do not claim to have all truth. Do you?
We are were only talking about John 1:1.
I sense the need for agreement with you, and the typically seen reaction toward the fact that we do not need a teacher, because the Holy Spirit is our teacher.
You say I am judging.. it is you who is judging.
You are on the defense.I guess that we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Saying that they deny the spirit of god is also saying that they do not have the spirit of god. That something I completely disagree with. My parents are active witnesses and always speaking of how the Holy Spirit moves them. As far as the watchtower telling them to take prescribed drug, I have now idea. I have not read that one. But my parents, who again are active witnesses, believe in a more holistic way of living. Which means treating your body with natural food v.s. Chemical man made food. I also don’t think you get my point on on your first comment you secluded and group people and I find that very sad. As far as the Holy Spirit those scriptures say exactly what it is, a spirit. To give it any other definition would be to assume and I think most people know what it means to assume something.
T8,
The problem is, as I see it, you are making God’s word in John 1:1 another being. So, when you read that in the beginning was the word, you are thinking of a separate being to God.
I do not see it like that. I see God’s word as God’s spoken word. “God in various ways and at various times has spoken through..etc…… But in these last days, he has spoken to us by a son”.Anyway, that is just my view and what I was shown when I asked.
That certainly is the view of most, even going back to the second century fathers. Now consider this:
There must have been one who was first to be with God. And whoever that would be must be special for the following reasons.- Firstborns have special privilege. The first-born of or over all creation would be the most special besides God himself.
- Most believe this to be Jesus, but if not, then who?
- Scripture says that God created all things through the Word and it also says exactly the same thing regarding Jesus, that God created all things through his son.
- Jesus wears the title, the Word of God.
- The Word was with God. I am sure it means what it says.
You make assertions that we need the Holy Spirit and do not check to see if I disagree with that, but only assume it. You cannot use that against me because I agree. But you take it further, as you seem to imply that we only need the Holy Spirit. But have you considered that all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
One does not negate the other. In fact I would go as far to say that the Holy Spirit would never negate or contradict scripture.
Now we have teachers who explain scripture to us. But the Holy Spirit is the greatest teacher of all. What does the Spirit teach us? It teaches us from life experiences and from the scripture. We should not throw away the latter. So your assertion that I rely in scripture and my own understanding I believe is wrong. I believe that scripture is one of the major ways we can get to know about God, his nature, and his character. And why is that? Because it records the truths and experiences from God of some of the greatest people who have ever lived and we as one body learn from each other. We are not independent bodies, but one body.
Thus if I am accused of somehow peddling scripture to those who say they only need the Holy Spirit, then I make no apology because we need both.Becky,
Do you find it also sad that Paul refers to people in the last days as “Having a form of godliness, but denying its power : from such turn away”?I find it odd that you say that I am judging and excluding people when I just finished saying yesterday that I have welcomed Jehovah’s Witnesses most of my life, and have friends who are Jehovah Witnesses. Is that excluding them? I am simply judging their beliefs, and have concluded that they follow the teachings of men, and deny the power of the spirit.
If I had a friend who was considering becoming one and he was reading here, should I be quiet – or let him be informed?T8,
I never assumed that you disagree (with the spirit as the teacher). I was simply pointing out that I have noticed that the moment a person anywhere takes on the position of a teacher: the moment one shows them the scripture that says we have no need for a teacher, for the Holy Spirit is the teacher: they get angry!! (I’m talking about on forums).
I have had a person teach me, and I thought it was great! But, sooner or later, I discovered that my teacher was not so great, and I had to return to God. I had no other option.
But, that is my story. I DID learn things through my ‘human teacher’, too.
You BTW, are just assuming yourself that I feel we do not need scripture. Whatever gave you that idea?
Because you opposed me when I was giving scripture and started on this who teacher thing. It came across as the scripture says this, but the Spirit says that.
Cheers. I consider what everyone says too. It is how I have learned most of what I know now. But as you say, the greatest teacher is the Spirit. But I believe that God teaches us through others. So we need to hear what others say, but let the Spirit have the final say.
I have no interest in Biblical scholarship – only in the discernment of truth to which such Theological study is nothing more than a boring distraction and a complete and utter waste of time…
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But because you seem to find this analytic comprehension of Biblical Greek so vital to your doctrine I will post for you some information on the subject at hand – Re: the erroneous translations of the Jehovah Witnesses’ Bible..
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Taken form ‘A Biblical and Theological Appraisal’ By Bruce M. Metzger
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“Some years ago Dr. Ernest Cadman Colwell of the University of Chicago pointed out in a study of the Greek definite article that, ‘A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb. … The opening verse of John’s Gospel contains one of the many passages where this rule suggests the translation of a predicate as a definite noun. The absence of the article [before θεος] does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb; it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it. The context makes no such demand in the Gospel of John, for this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas [John 20:28, ‘My Lord and my God’].’”
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“In a lengthy Appendix in the Jehovah’s Witnesses’ translation, which was added to support the mistranslation of John 1:1, there are quoted thirty-five other passages in John where the predicate noun has the definite article in Greek. These are intended to prove that the absence of the article in John 1:1 requires that θεος must be translated “a god.” None of the thirty-five instances is parallel, however, for in every case the predicate noun stands after the verb, and so, according to Colwell’s rule, properly has the article. So far, therefore, from being evidence against the usual translation of John 1:1, these instances add confirmation to the full enunciation of the rule of the Greek definite article.”
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“Furthermore, the additional references quoted in the New World Translation from the Greek of the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament, in order to give further support to the erroneous rendering in the opening verse of John, are exactly in conformity with Colwell’s rule, and therefore are added proof of the accuracy of the rule. The other passages adduced in the Appendix are, for one reason or another, not applicable to the question at issue. One must conclude, therefore, that no sound reason has been advanced for altering the traditional rendering of the opening verse of John’s Gospel, ‘..and the Word was God.'”
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http://www.bible-researcher.com/metzger.jw.htmlI am starting to question the reliability of your intellect when you ascribe such ridiculous statements as – “Jesus is the Son of Himself” to the doctrine of the Trinity..!!
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Jesus, as the Son of God, is equal to and One with the Father..that is what I believe Scripture teaches..Right so we should all believe in a doctrine that came three centuries later, was policed by an organisation that killed millions who refused this doctrine, and contradicts the words of the Father, Jesus, Paul, John, and Peter.
Right got it. Where do I sign up?But it says the son of God. While you say, the son of the Father.
Hence you agree then that the Father is God and Jesus is the son of God, the son of the Father.
Is this progress, or do you slide down another snake back to the beginning?Let’s be clear. It is not important so much as to what you say, but what scripture says.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”. This is important not only because Jesus said it, but also because it is eternal life.
Who sent Jesus Christ? God did. Jesus Christ is the son of God. That is who he is. That is the truth. This is the foundation of the true Church, the Body of Christ.All I was trying to tell you was that you like you were judging them to me. If you sound like that to me you could very well sound like that to others. I don’t agree with their beliefs either but I feel that there are more loving ways to express that. I never said you excluded them. I was try to say that in your comment you singled them out. I am sure there are other religions that you don’t agree with but they weren’t included, which makes your comment sound more like a judgement. Maybe I should have come right out and said that. Next time I will try to get right to the point of what I want to say.
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