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In a nutshell this is what you are saying DavidL.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent”.
You say that once we are born again, it becomes, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only God who is triune made up of three persons”, and Jesus Christ whom the other one or two of the members of this triune God sent.
Excuse me if I don’t believe a word of it DavidL.
What next?
I mean when you are born again and then read that verse, do the words actually change as I said above. Please explain, I really want to know how this works for you. Or is it some kind of code that you need a special revelation to see the hidden (occult) meaning?
Call me simple or old fashioned but I just believe what he said and it is clear for anyone and is to be taken as he said it.if it is wrong to worship anyone except God – how can we worship Jesus the Lamb, in the presence of God..?
DavdiL, we have heard all your arguments before. Let me use scripture to dispel this argument of yours.
Did you know that many are worshipped, but only the Father is worshipped as God. Jesus is worshipped as the Lamb and the son of God. Kings are worshipped as kings such as we see in 1 Kings 1:23. And other men are worshipped legitimately as you will see.
Matthew 14:33
Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
Revelation 5: 12-14
12 In a loud voice they sang: “Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.Jesus said that his sheep hear his voice.
And he spoke this: “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ who he has sent.Jesus Christ, all through His earthly carnation as a man, acknowledged and glorified the Father as God – the only true God…just like He also submitted Himself to be baptized by the prophet John, when John himself shrank from such a position…why.? Simply because he recognized the Divinity of the Son..and how, in reality, Jesus should actually have baptized him, but in this, as in other places, we see how it was the role of His earthly mission to fulfill that mission in His humanity (not His Divinity)..for how else could we follow in His footsteps..!
Jesus clearly said that the Father is the one true God. So I am not going to be persuaded by an external doctrine that tries to change it. It is obvious what Jesus said. But you harden your heart. Why be like the Pharisees. They did the same with his words. Made all kinds of accusations against him and accused him of saying this and that. At one point, they even twisted his words to say that he was claiming to be God and Jesus reminded them of the usage of ‘theos’ by quoting “you are elohim, you are all sons of the Most High God”. He then followed with, “why persecute me for saying I am the son of God”.
But what do you do? Like the Jews you say that he was claiming to be God. Then you claim that I am Arian, when in actual fact I just give you scriptures as they are plainly written. Then in order to mix it up a little, you say that once you have the Spirit then it is all read through the lens of the Trinity. If this was true, then why is that not written. You just made that up.
Look, we know Jesus is going to return for a bride without spot and blemish. And we see the signs of his coming. Why stumble at the last hurdle? Pride is not worth it. Listen to Jesus Christ. He is the Lord. Leave your ego out of it.And replace the wine of Babylon for the wine of God. Best to be drunk on the Spirit than drunk on the wine of Babylon. For the whole world is drunk on her wine. Why number yourself with them. Do not partake of their table.
Only if one assumes BEFORE HAND that God is unipersonal (a completely individual entity) can one conclude that John 17:3 proves that only the Father is true God. (Matt Slick)
The Biblical Trinity doctrine is defined as follows: “There is only one God, made up of three distinct Persons who exist in co-equal, co-eternal communion as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.”
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Here are the groups that deny the trinity: Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christian Science, Armstrongism, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, Unification Church, Unity School of Christianity, Scientology – Dianetics, Dawn Bible Students, Unitarian Universalist Christians, The Way International, United Church of God, Friends General Conference, Iglesia ni Cristo, Living Church of God, Members Church of God International, Swedenborgianism, Branhamism…(btw the Qur’an teaches that the doctrine of Trinity is blasphemous)…
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You accuse those who believe the Trinity of being part of Babylon…but as you can see, when you stray from the true teaching of Scripture and deny the Trinity, it is you that has entered the world of cult Christianity without even knowing it…DavidL, many cults deny the Trinity and many cults accept the Trinity such as the RCC. It is the foundation of the false Roman Church and through her history she has martyred the saints, while these other cults have not or perhaps have killed few. It is her that has the blood of the martyrs on her hands. Of the cults, she is the worst kind.
Satan is the adversary. He promotes this Babylonian doctrine in order to make the world that believes in a God as drunk. For those who do not believe in God, he gives them Evolution. For those who know that there is a God and that the Father is the one true God, then he gives them the JWs and other cults. The idea is to never join a cult and subscribe to a man-made creed. Instead, believe scripture as it is written and know GOd personally.
Our adversary is many steps ahead of you DavidL. He has out-thought you on many fronts. You have fallen for his scheming. In what way you ask? Where he sets up cults that do not believe in the Trinity, thereby proving that the Trinity is true to your mind at least. That is the lie you have accepted according to what you have written in your post. You have swallowed the bait. Do you honestly not think that he has all bases covered. Remember he has deceived the whole world. He is not stupid. Do not underestimate him. You have access to the Spirit and scripture and that is enough. Once you partake in one of his schemes, he then has a foothold in what you believe.@ DavidL.
You say: “Only if one assumes BEFORE HAND that God is unipersonal (a completely individual entity) can one conclude that John 17:3 proves that only the Father is true God. (Matt Slick)”.
What a joke. I would not trade that slick guys comment for the words of the Lord Jesus Christ ever. And it appears that you believe this slick guys words over Jesus.
Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
Jesus also said, “my sheep hear my voice”.
This is how we know the sheep. They hear his voice and are not led astray by other so-called shepherds. I wouldn’t follow Athanasius or Slick if you paid me. Jesus is my Lord.You quote the words of Scripture to deny the truth of Scripture – this is what Satan does..
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Proverbs says, “The man that wandereth out of the way of understanding shall remain in the congregation of the dead.” (21:16)
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Your teaching about Babylon/Trinity shows you have wandered from the revelation of God’s Word (the way of understanding)…you have now joined the world of the cults – “the congregation of the dead” (those that are without the Spirit)..Jesus said, “this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom he has sent”.
Yes Satan tries to deny this and what better way than to make every subject to an extra-biblical doctrine. The Trinity has served him well, but it is God’s time to come out of her now. She will be judged and God calls his people out so they are not judged with her.Your method of debate here is really a good example of how cults use the truth of Scripture to initiate their false doctrine…
Here’s the thing. You are short on scripture and long on opinions. Opinions mean nothing when they contradict scripture.
Plus we can quote scripture as it is, and you still oppose us.
Jesus said, this is eternal life, that you may know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. Jesus said here that the only true God is his Father.
And you oppose this and accuse me of cultist behavior. Yet I do not say this, Jesus does. So what you say about me you are really saying about him. You are persecuting Jesus Christ. It is better to be one of his sheep and hear his voice than hear an opposing voice such as Athanasius or the Vatican. And putting up with accusations or suffering persecution because of Jesus Christ is blessed.
Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.this is your delusion…and so you must live with it, but rather than upholding the words of Jesus and Scripture (as you pretend) you mis-use both…Eternal life, as Jesus said, is in God AND…His SON (Two are ONE)..the very scriptures you use to deny the truth are in fact opposing what you teach…
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You use the humanity of Christ to deny His Divinity…and so fall into a trap of your own making…
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Jesus said, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good – except God alone.” Here again, like the verse you quote, Jesus is magnifying the Father and denying Himself….but if you think about it, Was Jesus – the Sinless One, good..?? Of course He was..!! And is it wrong to call Him good….??????????David,
You really need to look up divinity, because no one is denying Christ divinity. Divinity means godlike qualities, which jesus certainly has being the son of god. But being divine in no way means he is god. By say he is god is saying that he is a liar. Jesus told us that he is the son of god and to worship the father in spirit and truth. But by saying that Jesus is god aren’t we then worshiping him and not who he told us to. It is very sad when people can’t take our savior at his word.
That is true Becky. If Jesus came from God in the beginning, then his source is the Divine making him divinity because there was nothing else, no other nature at that point. Also, we can partake of divine nature, yet we will never be God himself.
Most confusion about what Jesus is comes from the lack of understanding with identity and nature. They think divine nature or the form of God makes you God. But nature and identity are two different things.
Case in point. Eve is not Adam even though she is in the form of adam. Adam was the first man, and adam is the word for man. But Adam and adam have different meanings. One identifies a person and the other is a nature. When we see the word ‘theos’ we also need to be aware that it is not always the Most High Theos that is being idenitfied, e.g., Jesus said, “ye are theos” and there is no definite article preceding that, so he wasn’t saying “Ye are God”.Pretty much your whole post above is in error because I do not deny that eternal life is from God and through his son. This is the very thing I teach. It is you who is denying God and his son. Because God and his son (as you say) is two and you say that there is one God. So you even slip up with your own doctrine and admit that there is God and his son.
You then rattle on about me denying Christ’s divinity on behalf of his humanity. You are so making a hash of what I am teaching and because of that, your opinions of me (as there are many) are even more worthless if you do not even understand what I teach. You should not judge when you are not even able to understand what I teach. I say this for your own good. It worries me little what men may think of me. I mostly care what God thinks about me.
And is it wrong to call Jesus good? Is it wrong to call John the Baptist good? Jesus was correctly pointing out that all his own goodness came from God, thus he was not to be credited for it. Only God is good, and we as with Jesus can share that goodness if we allow God to to good in us. It is clear from scripture that Jesus had his own will, but always did God’s will over his own such as we see when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane just before his death.
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