What is truth

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 30 2011,15:14)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Mar. 29 2011,16:31)

Kerwin: “It is a self-destructive urge that comes out of your heart that is sinful”! I would like to know what scriptures you have found in the New Testament that support that comment. Sadly, we have to make up “sins” because they are not listed. How can we have sin within us if we are the Holy Temple of God? God does not dwell in sin. There is no sin in God!! Jesus took away our sin. Nailed it to the cross. Jesus took away the sin of the whole world, not just yours. If Jesus spoke the spirit words of God(which he did) and said we are cleansed by the words of God then it would be blasphemy unto God to rise above God and say, no, I am unclean. This I don't understand from a true man of God. TK

Love your neighbor as yourself is the command. Self-destruction violates that law as it is self hatred. An individual who loves themselves as God loves them does not make the pleasures of smoking an idol but prioritizing them more that the love of themselves and/or others. Gluttony, laziness, and other sins fall under the same general principle of violating loving yourself as God loves you.

Acknowleging a sinful desire is one step to overcomming. Felling a godly remorse for having commited that sin is another step. Cofessing you sin and summitting yourself to God's will in yet another step. If you have done this then God is faithful and just and will cleanse you of all unrighteousness.

There is only one general sin and that is violating the law of love your neighbor as God loves you. As you learn to obey that more and more you will be maturing in Christ and your sins will be put under your feet even more and more.

Kerwin: May I ask you sir, can a person who gives to himself and all others total freedom to do as they please be “self-destructive”? I know my freedom in God. The only reason I would tell or show freedom to anyone else is so they can experience the love of God more freely.

You have created a belief for yourself, of different sins against God. You say smoking is one of them. That is not scriptural in any way. You might tend to bind others that choose to smoke and turn them away from God. That would not be good nor fair.

There is no list of “actions” from God that he has called sin and told us not to do them. Yet you will reap what you sow to others and to life. Others are not condemned for their choices of actions but you have set a LAW where there is no law, unto yourself by the judgments you lay forth for others.

I believe you to be an intensly godly man with great knowledge of the Bible. I sense from what you write that you are bound by rules, doctrines, sin beliefs, unworthiness, and

many other things that make you feel that you are short of the perfection God has handed to you by faith in what Jesus says. For that I am sad. IMO, God bless you, TK

March 30, 2011 at 10:41 am#241224

Participant

Whatever a person gives out to others, comes from their heart and is the essence of that individual. If one gives out words of life/God, like words of freedom, words of love, words of joy, righteousness,peace,longsuffering,kindness etc. then he is administering love to the world around him. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Each must ask: Do I give out love? I will give out exactly what is in abundance in my heart. If it is not love, change it and it will be love.

If one is sad, depressed, sick, tired, feels unworthy, unclean, unrighteous, sinful, this is what he has accepted unto himself. He has accepted death in a pre-mature state. This is what causes sefl-hatred or self-destructive. Love does not cause those feelings. Walking in freedom from sin or any other form of condemnation leaves a pure loving heart. Self-hatred is the same as hating other people. Its a death desire. It is not life in any way. The same with love. If you are loved by God and set free by God and made perfect by God the love that is created within you will give out to others. Love and freedom and joy are very hard to contain. They must be expressed. Such is the plan of God to administer love to the world. He gave to us, we give to the world around us. IMO, TK

March 30, 2011 at 11:27 am#241230

Participant

Hi folks,
This is what Tim is saying:

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Scripturaly that is. He just likes to use his own words. He takes the treasured in his heart that God has given him, unlocks that box and gives it to the world. He takes the words God has written on his heart and repeats them to the world.

Quote

Luke 18:17 (King James Version)

17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

This is how Tim has accepted his understanding of the kingdom of God. Fully, completely, without question. This is a good thing.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

March 30, 2011 at 8:17 pm#241257

terraricca

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 31 2011,03:43)

Hi Pierre,

Quote

in item one;1) Trusting God to show us who he is – not man.

this can not be done unless you have acquired a good knowledge of the God you are worshiping.

By scripture prayer and listening to God not man.

Listening to people just makes it confusing IMO.

Jeremiah 17:5 “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.”

But God is forgiving.

Malachi 3:7 “Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.”

Quote

so to seek other religion faith and interact with them could bring you to doubt in your own faith,

I disagree. It only strengthens it more IMO

Karmarie

we will see

Pierre

March 30, 2011 at 9:37 pm#241263

Participant

Pierre….you say “we will see”. Well, if you are saying that in regards to 'dialoging with those of other faiths'….I'm only speaking from my own experience. It made my own belief stronger and the feeling of love better. But that's just me. Everyone is different Pierre.

March 30, 2011 at 9:44 pm#241264

Participant

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 31 2011,01:27)

Hi folks,
This is what Tim is saying:

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Quote

Luke 18:17 (King James Version)

17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.

This is how Tim has accepted his understanding of the kingdom of God. Fully, completely, without question. This is a good thing.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

I agree. I used to ignore TKs posts (sorry TK) but then I started really reading them, and I could understand a lot of the things he was saying. And I thank you TK because Iv learnt a lot from you lately.

March 30, 2011 at 11:40 pm#241276

Participant

When the heart smiles a pure smile it is God within who is using his fingers to lift the cheeks.

March 31, 2011 at 9:32 am#241320

Participant

Tim Kraft,

I have no idea where you obtained the idea that Jesus set Christians free from the law of love your neighbor as yourself. What he sets is people free from is slavery to sin and anyone who hates is himself and/or another is a slave to sin.

There is one law of which all of God’s other laws are but facets and that law is love your neighbor as yourself. If one does not realize that hating oneself is violating that law then that one knows nothing about the Holy Spirit which is the Spirit of love as God loves.

As you know, the sole command is love as God loves. You can only carry out that command if you obey all Jesus teachings and to do that you must believe what God states is true.

As for me I am not fully mature in the Lord and so I am yet short of the goal. When I become mature I will truly be righteous as God is and so love as he does. I have this testimony from the mouth of Jesus who is the Heir of God’s righteousness.

March 31, 2011 at 9:46 am#241324

Participant

So to love your neighbour you have to love yourself too, so that you can love your neighbour as yourself, and to be obediant to God….so as to do to others as you would to yourself….something I have found is that when you have a broken heart, say, often the heart needs to be fixed first with love, so that we can love our neighbour and ourself and God. But sometimes what is needed is another person to help fix that. If that makes sense?

March 31, 2011 at 10:15 am#241334

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 31 2011,20:32)

Tim Kraft,

As you know, the sole command is love as God loves. You can only carry out that command if you obey all Jesus teachings and to do that you must believe what God states is true.

Kerwin: I went back a few posts to see if I had actually written that Christians were free from love your neighbor as youself. I hope you made a mistake. I do not believe that.

If a man says to you, I wish I could accept Gods words through Jesus that sat I am clean. Would you agree with him and say, yes I wish I could be saved and cleansed too.

Or would you tell him, if you accept by faith those words, then you are saved and cleansed now! I hope you would tell him that he was immediately saved from sin, unworthyness, uncleanliness, sin, and made perfect unto God. If that is the truth(I hope you agree on that) then why do you not see yourself the same way?

If God did the perfection works for mankind, through Jesus, for all persons who will accept and agree, then why do you see yourself as short of the mark? …..as for me I am not fully mature in the lord so I am yet short of the goal….?

You have been made clean just as all the rest. But you must believe you are. How can one love his neighbor if he doesn't love himself? How can one love anyone else if they don't have love for themselves? You are just as clean and made whole as all others.

Why do you choose by your own free will, to condemn yourself to imperfection and deny the work of Jesus that made you perfect. You are either perfect by faith or you are not perfect because you don't believe your gift from God.

It is a poor use of the word “command” when talking about love because you cannot actually “command” love! You can't tell a little child in a harsh voice, get over here and sit on my lap and tell me you love me…! He might try but it would be from fear not love that he responded.

Love gives freely with no restrictions. Love considers the other person and not so much itself. Love does not condemn!

May Gods unconditional love, given through Jesus to believers, envelop your mind in awareness and reveal to your heart, the truth, of who and what you really are, now!! IMO, TK

March 31, 2011 at 10:19 am#241335

Participant

Tim Kraft,

I am not going to address all your post at this time but I do feel a need to mention you wrote “totally free”. Since you say you did not mean free from love your neighbor as yourself in that then I choose to believe you.

March 31, 2011 at 10:21 am#241339

Participant

Thank you Kerwin. TK

March 31, 2011 at 10:22 am#241340

Participant

Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 31 2011,15:46)

One purpose of the gathering of Christians is to encourage one another toward obtaining the goal of being righteous as God is righteous. That encouragement can also help heal a broken heart.

March 31, 2011 at 11:39 am#241344

Participant

Hi Karmarie,
You are so right that sometimes in life there are things that happen that require or are greatly enhanced by having someone else like a friend, a loved one, family, or educator of some sort to be there to actually interact with and share things with to begin a healing process or a more in depth and richer understanding of the issues we face in life. I like to think when one receives any help of this sort from another this also is and example of God working in our lives. Makes perfect sense to me.

With Love and Respect,
Wisrpring

March 31, 2011 at 1:08 pm#241346

Participant

To all: The greatest joy of my life so far is the unconditional love of God that I have found. The reason being is I am free to tell everyone else the exact same thing that I have found for myself. It would not do any good for me to find out all the good things Jesus did for us it they were only for me. The greatest joy is telling the good news to those who haven't yet accepted and believed. Religion destroys and beats down the participant, puts a load on them of can'ts, don'ts, better not's, shouldn'ts, couldn'ts, wouldn'ts etc.! Leaving the recipient lacking, down, depressed, sick, full of darkness which causes sorrow and suffering.

Jesus' teaching brought the mountains down and brought the valleys up. Everyone plays on an equal playing field.

I am thankful to have this site to share truth and help build up the body of Christ.

There are many greatly learned people on this site. God bless you all, TK

April 1, 2011 at 12:40 am#241390

Participant

Hi Tim,
Perhaps it's not religion itself, perhaps it is the culture you percieve in many institutions of organized religion. I say this because religion itself is just set of beliefs. I agree with you that many of the cultures in society that practice a religion(like Christianity, Muslim, Buddism, others) can and do foster such cultures as you describe. I am simpy trying to bring clarity to the issue.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

April 1, 2011 at 9:26 am#241484

Participant

Tim Kraft,

This addresses the rest of your post to me, that I incompletely addressed earlier.

I believe the scriptures which in paraphrase state” the heart of a man is deceiving” and “there is a way that appears to be right but leads to death in the end”. I can therefore tell you I believe I have a clear conscious but that does not make it true for it is the Lord who judges and not me. His judgment is righteous and I accept it.

I would tell you that if you want a clear conscious before God then believe that Jesus was made King of all things by God and since God speaks through him believe all his teachings. One of those teachings is that those who deeply desire to be love as God loves will have their desires meant because their desire will drive them to obey all of Jesus’ teachings. If that is you then you will believe that when you are fully mature in Christ then you will not sin even though tempted as is common to man. If you choose to believe then and follow Jesus’ teaching on how to receive the Spirit of Love then through faith you strive to walk by the spirit then God will do as he promised and change you so you in time become fully mature in Christ. The fact you believe this will happen is enough to be credited with righteousness as it is God who does the work and changes you.

I have not reached the goal because I am an unfinished master piece that is being worked on by God. I am not condemning God or the pace he works and so I am not condemning myself for being unfinished.

God’s love is displayed in me in that he is patiently working on me to eradicate my unrighteousness even though I have sinned and fallen short of his glory. God does as he promises and all things are possible through him.

April 1, 2011 at 10:25 am#241491

Participant

Kerwin and Wispring and TK thanks for your posts. Wispring, God does (work in our lives) I agree. Kerwin, encouragment is a good thing I agree with that too.

April 1, 2011 at 10:28 am#241492

Participant

Kerwin: If you told the person that you love and respect the most in this entire world how much you love them and how perfect they were in your eyes, what if they responded to you: I know you will love me if I strive to walk by your commands and do as you promised someday. I can accept your love after I have reached the goal of becoming a finished master piece that I know you are moulding me to be. When you can finally erradicate my unrighteousness I will accept your love. I know I have sinned and fallen short of your expectations even thought you tell me I am forgiven and cleanses. I only believe it after I have performed as a master piece!! I know you will do as you will.

Would it make you feel good, for your loving friend to reject your words, reject your perfection and love as a gift until they perform something or become something that they think you want? Even after you told them the truth and they rejected it! I think it would make you sad that they didn't believe what you said! Thats how I feel, God feels, with your beliefs. This is just my opinion Kerwin. You are perfect in Gods eyes, now, today, this minute, always, forever. Only believe to accept the gift. No one can force you. TK

April 1, 2011 at 10:30 am#241493