What is truth

[GeneBalthrop]

SF….Scripture say no man has (ALL) the truth and as for Knowledge it will be done away with, (WHY) because we one know in Part and prophesy in Part, and this understand will be done away and replace by a More fuller understand that is to come. It is a growing Process. “For we are to grow in Knowledge and Grace also. It definitely is a process of learning. That is why we are told to seek , ask, and knock in order to grow. Even the prophets of old did not understand what they were Prophesying about we are told, it was for a later generation to come. We are learning but we all have a long way to go. The advantage is those who have GOD'S Spirit of TRUTH (IN) them know the truth when they hear it, it has a sound that the Spirit (intellect) identifies with. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 14 2010,12:10)

SF….Scripture say no man has (ALL) the truth and as for Knowledge it will be done away with, (WHY) because we one know in Part and prophesy in Part, and this understand will be done away and replace by a More fuller understand that is to come. It is a growing Process. “For we are to grow in Knowledge and Grace also. It definitely is a process of learning. That is why we are told to seek , ask, and knock in order to grow. Even the prophets of old did not understand what they were Prophesying about we are told, it was for a later generation to come. We are learning but we all have a long way to go. The advantage is those who have GOD'S Spirit of TRUTH (IN) them know the truth when they hear it, it has a sound that the Spirit (intellect) identifies with. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

So in a way are you comaring the spirit of Truth like Christ.

like you know, when Christ said that the sheep willl hear my voice.

So its the same with the Spirit of Truth, that those who are in Truth will recogonize it?

I agree with your statements. that is the conclusion im trying the reach, that no man has the whole truth. so why are we so divided on different truths?

to extend your point in 1st Corinthians 13
which is what perfect is to come, whats impart will be done away with.

so whats up with the Divison, and people literaly willing to die for what they believe?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (seekingtruth @ May 14 2010,10:46)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 13 2010,17:31) Quote (seekingtruth @ May 13 2010,01:01) Welcome simplyforgiven, I believe truth to be absolute and there are no conflicts in truth, only misinterpretations that give the appearance of conflict. We must be willing to change our interpretations, even based on traditional beliefs when offered an interpretation that eliminates conflicts and is supported by the whole of scripture. My opinion -Wm Can you extend on your point about conflict.  as in what? elaborate. so when you say change, you mean to admit that we are wrong? SimplyForgiven, Most base their beliefs on what they believe to be true. In my opinion the scriptures are the main source for truth, but different interpretations of the same scriptures have lead to the many divisions within the body with some divisions severe enough that it seems they have forsaken essential truths. What I was attempting to say was none of us has all truth and if we disagree on a point, one of us is wrong. Obviously I think I'm right, otherwise I would change my belief. So in my opinion we should question our beliefs when confronted with an interpretation different then our own. We should then look at it from the opposing point of view, then examine which best matches the whole of scripture. Once I've done that I enter it into my journal, so unless there is a another interpretation that comes along, I consider that to be what I believe (for that item). I do not believe I have all truth despite having searched for it for over 30 years now. I also believe I have errors in what I believe to be true, having been deceived despite; my best efforts, asking God for guidance, and being willing to forsake any and all beliefs to find it. But God looks on the heart He knows my deep desire for truth and I believe it pleases Him even if I have made mistakes. As to admitting to a wrong, I have admitted it, and I know I will have to continue to admit it, it is important to be honest with others, as well as yourself. My opinion – Wm

My point to this whole thread is just that.
to denying ourselves, and picking up our cross and follow Christ.

Why do we focus on being right all the time?
we can debate and bring up many points, but when all is said and done, its God who has the absolute truth.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:21)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,06:52) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,02:16) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 13 2010,22:35) Quote (RokkaMan @ May 13 2010,20:20) He loves us and I think he came as Jesus and is still with us as the Holy spirit…yet he is beyond a trinity…he is OUR EVERYTHING! Lets stop bickering about our ideas, and start looking for God's truth. I think the only idea of God that is beyond Trinity is just that. That God is my everything. All i want, need, and dream about.   My source of life. im nothing without God in my life. sf truth ?? men truth? or Gods truth?? if i say I think God is!!!it is I  …so men truth not Gods. how can men define God ?? except trough what God themselves reveal to us.so this will be truth of God not men. if you say I believe this or that ,that s men truth not Gods truth. the truth of God does not comes from men . God truth is from above and deals with the things from above not earthly things who will soon be put to fire. anyone who gathers the things from above is from God,the ones who gathers the things on earth are from the world and do not belong to the truth of God. Gods word is the only truth known to men ,if you do not believe the word of God you do not have any truth, if you say that you believe the truth and do not put to practice what it says you are a liar.and truth is not in you. if you living in the truth of God this means that everything you do is in line with the scriptures and so you are able to justify your way by the means of the truth.(this is not justification for sin) also truth of God will be our rule above all others. Pierre hi pierre Are you responding to what i said or to the thread? If i say that God is my everything.  this is not an a mans idea. That can only be Gods because he clearly reveals he wants to be the center of our lives.   but if your arguing about the threead Than you right how can a Man define God? Yet there are divisions of divisions of all those who say they love and cherish the Same God. Explain that? If God is who he says he is, why are we not in agreement? Is it us?   The Truth of God would kill us.  Imagine understanding everything that ever existed in past, present, and future.  about understanding how an atom and a molecule actually work, imagine seeing such things.  if we could, we should be dead, because humanly we could never handle such information. SF i answer the tread, most of the confusion lays wen people do not have much knowledge of scriptures and so not much understanding of it and many try to give their opinion or comment on something they really do not understand . we have to learn to know God and his son Jesus Christ to understand the whys and how's and where's ect; understand the apostles explanations of what they mean,and at the same time be careful of the sharks with the false teachings, remember live is with God  not men. always stick to scriptures and scriptures explanation not men explanation. Pierre

if what your saying is true than one has to admit that
one can be wrong?

Is there a chance that your wrong compared to Gods truth?

How do we solve for Divisions?

What is going to take?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,12:33)

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,11:21) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,06:52) Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,02:16) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 13 2010,22:35) Quote (RokkaMan @ May 13 2010,20:20) He loves us and I think he came as Jesus and is still with us as the Holy spirit…yet he is beyond a trinity…he is OUR EVERYTHING! Lets stop bickering about our ideas, and start looking for God's truth. I think the only idea of God that is beyond Trinity is just that. That God is my everything. All i want, need, and dream about.   My source of life. im nothing without God in my life. sf truth ?? men truth? or Gods truth?? if i say I think God is!!!it is I  …so men truth not Gods. how can men define God ?? except trough what God themselves reveal to us.so this will be truth of God not men. if you say I believe this or that ,that s men truth not Gods truth. the truth of God does not comes from men . God truth is from above and deals with the things from above not earthly things who will soon be put to fire. anyone who gathers the things from above is from God,the ones who gathers the things on earth are from the world and do not belong to the truth of God. Gods word is the only truth known to men ,if you do not believe the word of God you do not have any truth, if you say that you believe the truth and do not put to practice what it says you are a liar.and truth is not in you. if you living in the truth of God this means that everything you do is in line with the scriptures and so you are able to justify your way by the means of the truth.(this is not justification for sin) also truth of God will be our rule above all others. Pierre hi pierre Are you responding to what i said or to the thread? If i say that God is my everything.  this is not an a mans idea. That can only be Gods because he clearly reveals he wants to be the center of our lives.   but if your arguing about the threead Than you right how can a Man define God? Yet there are divisions of divisions of all those who say they love and cherish the Same God. Explain that? If God is who he says he is, why are we not in agreement? Is it us?   The Truth of God would kill us.  Imagine understanding everything that ever existed in past, present, and future.  about understanding how an atom and a molecule actually work, imagine seeing such things.  if we could, we should be dead, because humanly we could never handle such information. SF i answer the tread, most of the confusion lays wen people do not have much knowledge of scriptures and so not much understanding of it and many try to give their opinion or comment on something they really do not understand . we have to learn to know God and his son Jesus Christ to understand the whys and how's and where's ect; understand the apostles explanations of what they mean,and at the same time be careful of the sharks with the false teachings, remember live is with God  not men. always stick to scriptures and scriptures explanation not men explanation. Pierre if what your saying is true than one has to admit that one can be wrong? Is there a chance that your wrong compared to Gods truth? How do we solve for Divisions? What is going to take?

SF

you have to be patient ,and let God do the work,you can not understand the scriptures instantly as you read them,we have to read them many time,and each time you have learn something new so you put it to practice or stop doing it if it is not good.

and that s how we progress every day of our live until God take it away.

we also share our new knowledge with our family and friends
and so on.

you also have to understand that on this forum there are different people and so different views on the scriptures so you can see and checked them out for yourself,

not all is truth here.

Pierre

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,13:30)

SF you have to be patient ,and let God do the work,you can not understand the scriptures instantly as you read them,we have to read them many time,and each time you have learn something new so you put it to practice or stop doing it if it is not good. and that s how we progress every day of our live until God take it away. we also share our new knowledge with our family and friends and so on. you also have to understand that on this forum there are different people and so different views on the scriptures so you can see and checked them out for yourself, not all is truth here. Pierre Pierre

So does that mean we have to humble ourselves?

like probably admit that in some sense we might not understand everything there is to God?

(im pulling an Nick)

Mucho amor!
hey does your name mean, sweet land? as in “Tierra Rica”? in spanish? or is that french?

[Elizabeth]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 13 2010,18:23)

Quote (Elizabeth @ May 13 2010,01:57) SF God's “Word” is truth, we have it in the form of the Bible. Jhn 17:17   Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.   To understand “truth”, the Bible, you have to first believe what it says, not twist and spin the truth, and then asking God to give you understanding. People believe in what you call “different truth”, not that there are different truth, because they don't understand truth. Jhn 4:23   But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.   Jhn 4:24   God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.   Our faith in Jesus Christ is what saves us, Jhn 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.   but before you get there, you first have to know Jesus, and that is where the Bible comes in; it tells you how to get saved. Jam 1:5   If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.   Luk 11:13   If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?   Asking God in prayer for his Holy Spirit is the key. Georg So how do you view the Division of the Chruch when concerning Truth?   How do all christians claim to have truth when they are all divided? is it different Gods, or bibles, or what? Why do we believe in different things? And how do we solve for it?

This scripture tells you why we have so many denominations.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Have you ever met a minister that is not a good orator?
Religion has become a business, big business, and preaching a profession.

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,20:50)

Quote (terraricca @ May 14 2010,13:30) SF you have to be patient ,and let God do the work,you can not understand the scriptures instantly as you read them,we have to read them many time,and each time you have learn something new so you put it to practice or stop doing it if it is not good. and that s how we progress every day of our live until God take it away. we also share our new knowledge with our family and friends and so on. you also have to understand that on this forum there are different people and so different views on the scriptures so you can see and checked them out for yourself, not all is truth here. Pierre Pierre So does that mean we have to humble ourselves? like probably admit that in some sense we might not understand everything there is to God?   (im pulling an Nick) Mucho amor! hey does your name mean, sweet land? as in “Tierra Rica”? in spanish? or is that french?

hi SF

terraricca; means “fertile land” in italian,

So does that mean we have to humble ourselves?yes
and always look for what God approves not our own making.

Pierre

[seekingtruth]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 14 2010,08:31)

Quote (seekingtruth @ May 14 2010,10:46) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 13 2010,17:31) Quote (seekingtruth @ May 13 2010,01:01) Welcome simplyforgiven, I believe truth to be absolute and there are no conflicts in truth, only misinterpretations that give the appearance of conflict. We must be willing to change our interpretations, even based on traditional beliefs when offered an interpretation that eliminates conflicts and is supported by the whole of scripture. My opinion -Wm Can you extend on your point about conflict.  as in what? elaborate. so when you say change, you mean to admit that we are wrong? SimplyForgiven, Most base their beliefs on what they believe to be true. In my opinion the scriptures are the main source for truth, but different interpretations of the same scriptures have lead to the many divisions within the body with some divisions severe enough that it seems they have forsaken essential truths. What I was attempting to say was none of us has all truth and if we disagree on a point, one of us is wrong. Obviously I think I'm right, otherwise I would change my belief. So in my opinion we should question our beliefs when confronted with an interpretation different then our own. We should then look at it from the opposing point of view, then examine which best matches the whole of scripture. Once I've done that I enter it into my journal, so unless there is a another interpretation that comes along, I consider that to be what I believe (for that item). I do not believe I have all truth despite having searched for it for over 30 years now. I also believe I have errors in what I believe to be true, having been deceived despite; my best efforts, asking God for guidance, and being willing to forsake any and all beliefs to find it. But God looks on the heart He knows my deep desire for truth and I believe it pleases Him even if I have made mistakes. As to admitting to a wrong, I have admitted it, and I know I will have to continue to admit it, it is important to be honest with others, as well as yourself. My opinion – Wm My point to this whole thread is just that. to denying ourselves, and picking up our cross and follow Christ. Why do we focus on being right all the time? we can debate and bring up many points, but when all is said and done, its God who has the absolute truth.

I agree,
1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand

I do not believe the tactics of ridicule, belittlement, or name calling does anything to “shake up” those whom we disagree with, but only serves to harden their positions.

Many point to both Jesus and Paul's harsh corrections as justification for their attacks on others who have different interpretations of Christianity. However I am not the Son of God, nor am I an apostle, one who was taught directly from the Son of God, I am reduced to reading their writings and trying my best to piece their teachings, teachings that “the whole world would not have room for the books” to fully cover the topic. So as long as they are offering opinions that are based on scriptures (although I may not agree with their interpretation) I will offer what I believe is the correct interpretation and discuss as long as someone wants for understanding, but once it reaches the point where it becomes an argument (basically entrenched and starting to lob bombs) it is time to leave it to the “Master”.

It is imparitive that we remember that we are to be know by our love for one another 4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. I believe that covers how we should govern our dis-agreements.

My opinion – Wm

[SimplyForgiven]

I forgot all about this thread.

Nice response ST

[seekingtruth]

SF,
So had I, I stumbled across it looking for something I had read some time ago, this was not it, but it seemed appropriate with some of the discussions going on.

Wm

[Wispring]

Hi All,

In regards to defining truth. I had this discussion many years ago with some friends. We came up with this structure… There is your truth, there is my truth, there is objective truth which we can agree on by using agreed upon methods(like a covenant) of compiling facts to ascertain the objective truth. Some might call this the scientific method of building knowledge and obtaining objective truths. Objective truths are fluid in that they can change with new facts, new methods, and paradign shift revelations. Then last, but, certainly not least is God's Truth. Simply by recognizing this is God's Truth and not man's truth, by definition, then it becomes obvious that no man will have the portion of God's Truth that God will give said man unless this man is one with Jesus Christ and one with God just like Jesus said in his prayer to God.

John 17:20-26 (King James Version)

20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

===================================================================

It is my humble opinion that much of the debating that goes on in these forums is done in the scientific method which is OK it is rational. It certainly has educated me in scriptual knowledge reading the debates which is also OK. Nevertheless is done in a advesarial structure, this is the nature of debate, when both sides are said and done unless something is presented by either side of the debate that the other side finds truly compelling they will both go home holding onto the position they had entering the debate. How productive this is in obtaining God's truth is at best questional. I will, as I should, let God be the judge of that.

Now I will present a thought that crossed my mind while composing this post. Imagine a trinitarian and a non-trinitarian in the presence of God for final judgement. God says something like “You were both close, but, didn't quite fully grasp what my son Jesus Christ was teaching. In the balance, however, your understanding and practice was good enough to qualify for eternal life. Here is my son Jesus Christ, he will fill you in on the things you missed.”

===================================================================
This is as far as my admittedly limited understanding of God's Truth goes at this time. My prayer is that by reading this you will be guided by the Holy Spirit to have more of God's Truth revealed within your soul.

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[Baker]

SF It's funny all Christians proclaim that they have the truth. I see many here alone how they interpret what they think is truth!!!! I believe when I see a Scripture saying for instance
Jhn 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Mat 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

I see that Satan is real. however Gene for instance does not see that! Who has the truth here??

Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,18:45)

Hi All,   In regards to defining truth. I had this discussion many years ago with some friends. We came up with this structure… There is your truth, there is my truth, there is objective truth which we can agree on by using agreed upon methods(like a covenant) of compiling facts to ascertain the objective truth. Some might call this the scientific method of building knowledge and obtaining objective truths. Objective truths are fluid in that they can change with new facts, new methods, and paradign shift revelations. Then last, but, certainly not least is God's Truth. Simply by recognizing this is God's Truth and not man's truth, by definition, then it becomes obvious that no man will have the portion of God's Truth that God will give said man unless this man is one with Jesus Christ and one with God just like Jesus said in his prayer to God. John 17:20-26 (King James Version) 20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. ===================================================================   It is my humble opinion that much of the debating that goes on in these forums is done in the scientific method which is OK it is rational. It certainly has educated me in scriptual knowledge reading the debates which is also OK. Nevertheless is done in a advesarial structure, this is the nature of debate, when both sides are said and done unless something is presented by either side of the debate that the other side finds truly compelling they will both go home holding onto the position they had entering the debate. How productive this is in obtaining God's truth is at best questional. I will, as I should, let God be the judge of that.   Now I will present a thought that crossed my mind while composing this post. Imagine a trinitarian and a non-trinitarian in the presence of God for final judgement. God says something like “You were both close, but, didn't quite fully grasp what my son Jesus Christ was teaching. In the balance, however, your understanding and practice was good enough to qualify for eternal life. Here is my son Jesus Christ, he will fill you in on the things you missed.” ===================================================================   This is as far as my admittedly limited understanding of God's Truth goes at this time. My prayer is that by reading this you will be guided by the Holy Spirit to have more of God's Truth revealed within your soul.                                                         With Love and Respect,                                                                    Wispring

wispring

well done your conclusion is also good to my taste that is,it is very difficult for some to see the truth because there truth is in the way,

I remember reading 40 years ago a book from Kahill Gibran,and he was talking about the outside I and the inside me,
it took me a while to understand what he meant,our ego is the outside I,and the true person is the inside me,

until we stop being double minded we will never come to the truth of God,the inside and our outside are to be the same.and also in Christ.

Pierre

[Wispring]

Hi Pierre,

I read the book by Khalil Gibran “The Prophet” about 28 years ago. I have to credit the reading of this book as an experience that led me to wishing to reconcile myself with God. This is a link to the complete works of Khalil Gibran available free on-line.
Comple works of Khalil Gibran

With Love and Respect,
Wispring

[terraricca]

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 19 2011,22:30)

Hi Pierre, I read the book by Khalil Gibran “The Prophet” about 28 years ago. I have to credit the reading of this book as an experience that led me to wishing to reconcile myself with God. This is a link to the complete works of Khalil Gibran available free on-line. Comple works of Khalil Gibran                                                   With Love and Respect,                                                            Wispring

wispring

thanks but i have read his entire librairy ,even “broken wings”

so I do feel like you about K. Gibran

Christian Love from my heart.

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Baker @ Mar. 19 2011,06:42)

SF  It's funny all Christians proclaim that they have the truth.  I see many here alone how they interpret what they think is truth!!!!  I believe when I see a Scripture saying for instance Jhn 8:57   Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?   Mat 4:10   Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.   Mat 4:11   Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.   I see that Satan is real. however Gene for instance does not see that!  Who has the truth here?? Irene

Irene,
We have scriptures that says that Jesus called Peter Satan.

So can you really blame Gene for thinking what he thinks?

Do you know what Satan means?

The problem with Truth is we base it on what we “interpret” and our explaintions of Why things were said.

For example, I can logically conclude that Peter is Satan because Jesus the Son of God said so.
Now for you to tell me that Peter is not Satan, you would have to offer a “explaination” of why he Isnt, and offer other contexts and proof to explain your reasoning.

So honeslty our TRUTH should only come from God.

As Jesus said his doctrine comes from above.
Therefore your doctrine doesnt come from sticking your nose in the bible, but being one with God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 18 2011,18:45)

It is my humble opinion that much of the debating that goes on in these forums is done in the scientific method which is OK it is rational

It's hard to debate the spiritual truth, Wispring.  I could say that the Holy Spirit is telling me Jesus is NOT God while Dennison could say that same spirit is telling him Jesus IS God.  Where would that leave us?

The Spirit is what personally guides us, but one can't just state that what he claims is truth because “the Spirit told me so”.  The scriptures are there for a reason.  To rebuke and correct and teach our brothers and sisters the truth as written down in God's inspired words.

Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 18 2011,18:45)

Imagine a trinitarian and a non-trinitarian in the presence of God for final judgement. God says something like “You were both close, but, didn't quite fully grasp what my son Jesus Christ was teaching. In the balance, however, your understanding and practice was good enough to qualify for eternal life.”

That's hardly a possibility IMO.  For Trinitarians worship someone other than God as God Himself.  That is breaking direct commandments from God and His Son Jesus.  I believe that in order to “play the everlasting life game”, you must show you are able to obey and follow the commands of your rulers.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 19 2011,02:18)

Irene, We have scriptures that says that Jesus called Peter Satan. So can you really blame Gene for thinking what he thinks?

Really D?

And if you started adding words into scripture to make those scriptures fit around YOUR understanding, and I said, “Whatever Gene” to you, would you then think you really WERE Gene?

Would anyone with half a brain think that you were now Gene because I used sarcasm?

I've showed Gene many other scriptures that prove Satan is real.  So has Irene.  For example:

Revelation 12:9
The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

Gene believes the angels in this scripture are real, but not Satan.  

Any third grader could understand the comment that Jesus made to Peter. Why do you make excuses for Gene?

mike

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,21:01)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Mar. 19 2011,02:18) Irene, We have scriptures that says that Jesus called Peter Satan. So can you really blame Gene for thinking what he thinks? Really D? And if you started adding words into scripture to make those scriptures fit around YOUR understanding, and I said, “Whatever Gene” to you, would you then think you really WERE Gene? Would anyone with half a brain think that you were now Gene because I used sarcasm? I've showed Gene many other scriptures that prove Satan is real.  So has Irene.  For example: Revelation 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. Gene believes the angels in this scripture are real, but not Satan.   Any third grader could understand the comment that Jesus made to Peter.  Why do you make excuses for Gene? mike

Thats my point Mike.

What im trying to say is that Gene has a legit reason to believe what he believes, not that its true.

And his reasoning is Direct, but of course for him to believe that, would mean for him to DENY other direct scriptures that says otherwise.

So the wisdom of paradoxes helps solves such problems, and understanding what is really meant within the claims.

But check this out mike.
If you started to call me gene all the time, and someone who doesnt know we are joking, would actually start to believe that my name is Gene becuase again he doesnt know me.

So the reasoning is legit, not that its truth though.

psh i really dont care, i was just saying.

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