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Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 16 2011,21:52) Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,01:30) Ed: You have ask….Do you consider 'YOUR WORKS' as dirty rags? <– Please answer this question First it is a very general question. I am gonna take it that you are referring to “works” for salvation! I say any thing that you or me or anyone might try to do to “earn”, “get”, “complete”, “further” or make “better” a personal relationship with God….is as dirty rags unto God! No one can add one thing to make our total salvation better or more complete, nor can one take anything away from our salvation from God through Jesus by things he does or doesn't do!
_
Why do you fight against what scripture tells us? (Romans 6:13)
Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:
but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead,
and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
(Rom.6:13) (righteousness is “DOING” righteous deeds)YOU TOTALLY MISSED THE CONTEXT! 6:14….FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU; FOR YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW BUT UNDER GRACE….V16….KNOW YE NOT THAT TO WHOM YOU YIELD(PRESENT) YOURSELF TO OBEY(lit: hear or subordinate oneself to), YOU BECOME A SERVANT TO THAT; WHETHER A SERVANT OF SIN UNTO DEATH OR A SERVANT OF FAITH(OBEDIENCE) UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS?
v17….BUT GOD BE THANKED, THAT YE WERE SERVANTS OF SIN, BUT YE HAVE OBEYED(BELIEVED) FROM THE HEART/MIND THE DOCTRINE THAT WAS DELIVERED TO YOU….v18….BEING THEN MADE FREE FROM SIN….YE BECAME SERVANTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS!!
ED, YOU APPEAR TO BE FULLY ACCEPTING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, CLEANSING BY RITUAL WORKS. IN THE NEW TESTAMENT PERFECTION IS BY FAITH IN WHAT “JESUS” DID NOT WHAT WE DO. My opinions, TK
Quote (OBEDIENCE) UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS
Hi Tim,How can you be obedient unto righteousness without works? (See James 2:20)
James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: Righteousness is by Faith not works, I should think you would know that by now.I'm not confused! Sin has no dominion over me! I don't present myself to sin to “obey” like you have listed below….I have no sin in Christ how could I be a servant of sin if Jesus has taken it all away?
We were servants of sin in the old testament way but not in the New testament faith believing of perfection from God.
Yes having now, by faith being made free from sin I am a servant of righteousness. Yes….!
I do not yield my members as instruments of unrighteousness…I have been made righteous by faith. Why does this confuse you! Do you feel you need to be in sin for some reason.
“Obedience is “faith” unto God for his righteousness!!
The payment has been made, sin is gone, why try to bring it back in your own life? Jesus gave us freedom from sin. Don't believe that sin exists in you and it doesn't. Believe it does and it does! Quite simple. TK
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 16 2011,21:59) Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,01:30) ED, YOU APPEAR TO BE FULLY ACCEPTING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, CLEANSING BY RITUAL WORKS. My opinions, TK
Hi Tim,Why are you lying?
Bearing false witness is a sin.
Don't you “THINK” you should repent?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You are only cleansed from sin ONE way or another.You are clean and perfect by Faith in what Jesus did for you!
Or you can believe that your works are earning your perfection unto God. Believing in your performance for sinless perfection!
Which is it! Its one or the other. TK
Ed: If I were lying I would be like what you are saying. The lie against the truth is that you are in sin. Jesus says you are not! Who are you gonna believe?
If you are not clean by faith then God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit cannot come and dwell within you. They don't live in sin and darkness!
If I were to “repent” I would have to “turn back” to the old testament lies of unworthiness, uncleanliness, sinners, unrighteous before God. I will not turn back. Why do You? TK
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,23:46) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 16 2011,21:59) Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,01:30) ED, YOU APPEAR TO BE FULLY ACCEPTING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, CLEANSING BY RITUAL WORKS. My opinions, TK
Hi Tim,Why are you lying?
Bearing false witness is a sin.
Don't you “THINK” you should repent?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You are only cleansed from sin ONE way or another.You are clean and perfect by Faith in what Jesus did for you!
Or you can believe that your works are earning your perfection unto God. Believing in your performance for sinless perfection!
Which is it! Its one or the other. TK
hi Tim,You appear to be overlooking this verse.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. (Heb.10:26)How can Heb.10:26 possibly happen, according to your logic?
I can't wait to hear! Please don't keep me waiting long; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,23:40) I'm not confused! Sin has no dominion over me!
Hi Tim,Confusion and sin are two different things.
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (John 8:34)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,23:52) Ed: If I were lying I would be like what you are saying.
Hi Tim,This statement, by you, is either a lie or a mistake.
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,01:30) ED, YOU APPEAR TO BE FULLY ACCEPTING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, CLEANSING BY RITUAL WORKS. Do you now understand it to be FALSE?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: A few posts back you said,….
Hi Tim,
How can you be [obedient unto righteousness] without works? That is why I made the statement, ….you appear to be fully accepting of the old test…..cleansing by ritual works! and again…..righteousness is “DOING” righteous deeds….!First off, obedience unto God has always been and always will be Faith/Believing his words!! God does not tell you what to do!!
So how can you interpret that….”obedient unto righteousness” is anything but, works or deeds to be righteous unto God?
If works and deeds have anything to do with becoming righteousness unto God then the gift of Jesus and all he did is of no value whatsoever. If works and deeds could perfect a man unto God there was no reason to Jesus to come.
Its fine to believe whatever you choose. But know this,…you will be judged by your works and deeds and fail because they cannot make the worshiper perfect unto God. That was proven in the old testament. Faith in what God says has always been the connection of Man & God! Obeying/believing his words that wash and cleanse within, create true righteousness.
Righteous is by FAITH alone, in the finished work of Jesus. Jesus bought the perfection and gave it to us. Accept, believe and receive. (without one deed or work of any kind, good or bad or in-between)!!
So I still see you as accepting old testament cleansing by ritual works and deeds to be “righteous” if you hold to the scripture you gave with a works and deeds interpretation.
It should read…..obedience (believing Jesus unto) righteousness of God….!
Faith in God creates perfection!! Works and deeds to please or appease God are worthless temperal acts worthy of judgment!
IMO, TK
Hi Tim,
I never said your works are your salvation?
Why do you keep “ranting” on and on as if I had?
You are presenting a delusion as if I had said something I hadn't!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: In my entire post I did not one time say…….”that you said, your works are your salvation”?
Why do you make that stuff up? Could it be to avoid answering the question?
I clearly copied what you said in your post…..
……”How can you be obedient unto righteousness without works”…..?To most people this would mean that one must work for his righteousness. That would be a lie!
I occasionally make mistakes but I never intend to delude, trick, or falsify any Bible truth. TK
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 30 2011,08:18) Ed: In my entire post I did not one time say…….”that you said, your works are your salvation”? Why do you make that stuff up? Could it be to avoid answering the question?
I clearly copied what you said in your post…..
……”How can you be obedient unto righteousness without works”…..?To most people this would mean that one must work for his righteousness. That would be a lie!
I occasionally make mistakes but I never intend to delude, trick, or falsify any Bible truth. TK
TKYOU STILL TRY TO BE SAVED ON NOTHING BUT YOUR FAITH ?
Jas 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Jas 1:23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror
Jas 1:24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
Jas 1:25 But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.Jas 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?
Jas 2:16 If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it?
Jas 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
Jas 2:18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
Jas 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.SO LIKE YOU CAN SEE THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT AGREE WITH YOUR VIEW AND YOU ARE DECEIVING YOUR SELF ACCORDING TO JAMES.
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 29 2011,22:25) Hi Tim, I never said your works are your salvation?
Why do you keep “ranting” on and on as if I had?
You are presenting a delusion as if I had said something I hadn't!
Hi Tim,Since you have trouble understanding what I tell you,
I have chosen to say the same thing to you using
different words so you can see what I'm saying.I never said you work toward your perfection?
Why do you keep “ranting” on and on as if I had?
You are presenting a delusion as if I had said something I hadn't!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgPierre: When a person understands his salvation through Jesus he finds he has been cleansed, made whole, worthy, sinless, purified and made the righteousness of God, BY FAITH!! No one can come to God, except by faith. It is by faith not of works lest any man should boast. Faith unites man with God.
When the love of God is poured into the heart of a man who comes believing his purification from evil through Jesus he is filled with the fruit of the spirit of God, peace, love, joy, kindness, meekness, gentleness etc.! With a heart full of the love of God the natural thing to do is express that love to others. This one can do or not do. This has nothing to do with the connection to God by faith that performed the cleansing in the first place. One can be fully saved and cleansed to the uttermost by Faith and yet not do one little thing. Their faith would not be working or you might not be exercising your faith or expressing your faith in or to the world, that is true, but that does not effect the salvation Jesus gave us if we believe.
You can do all the works and deeds and acts of kindness you wish to do but they will not save and cleanse your soul. The words from God through Jesus will cleanse your soul inside and make you whole. Then keep your head out of judging others works and deeds and do what you feel God is wanting you to do.
You can have salvation by faith without works but you cannot have works buy your salvation.
The only way to GOD TRUTH THROUGH JESUS IS BY FAITH! Jesus said I am the way through the truth to the life/GOD! No man comes to the father except by faith in Jesus. IMO, TK
Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 17 2011,00:17) Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,23:46) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 16 2011,21:59) Quote (ftk @ Sep. 16 2011,01:30) ED, YOU APPEAR TO BE FULLY ACCEPTING OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, CLEANSING BY RITUAL WORKS. My opinions, TK
Hi Tim,Why are you lying?
Bearing false witness is a sin.
Don't you “THINK” you should repent?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You are only cleansed from sin ONE way or another.You are clean and perfect by Faith in what Jesus did for you!
Or you can believe that your works are earning your perfection unto God. Believing in your performance for sinless perfection!
Which is it! Its one or the other. TK
hi Tim,You appear to be overlooking this verse.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth,
there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. (Heb.10:26)How can Heb.10:26 possibly happen, according to your logic?
I can't wait to hear! Please don't keep me waiting long; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: If we sin willfully after we have “received the knowledge” of the truth, (that there is no sin)…….there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.If you believe that Jesus took away the sin of the world. Heb.10:12…this man, after he has offered one sacrifice for sins forever sat down….for by one offering HE HATH PERFECTED FOR EVER THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED…V17….AND THEIR SINS AND INIQUITIES WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE…now where there is remission of sin there is no more offering for sin…!
If you turn back from the original forgiveness of sin you received when you came to God in faith, and you refuse to read the scriptures that say our sin is washed away so as to confess your cleanliness in Christ, there then is no further sacrifice that can be made. Then one is lost in sin!
Heb.9:26….he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself…! What do you think Ed, did he?
I could keep quoting but you have made your choice of beliefs which is your right to do. The sad thing is one who has a “sin” consciousness(still believes he has sin) cannot receive from God.
IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 30 2011,22:23)
I could keep quoting but you have made your choice of beliefs which is your right to do. The sad thing is one who has a “sin” consciousness(still believes he has sin) cannot receive from God.
Hi Tim,I told you many times “I STOPPED SINNING”!
Why to keep trying to make a dividing wall,
and attempt to put me on the other side?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Sep. 30 2011,22:23) Ed: If we sin willfully after we have “received the knowledge” of the truth, (that there is no sin)…….there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. IMO, TK
Hi Tim,You do realize that you are speaking in circles here; don't you?
Why don't you just take a deep breath and try to explain
exactly what you believe Heb.10:26 means; OK?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: If a man decides to accept the words of Jesus, from God, by faith, for a complete, all inclusive salvation and receives his sin free cleanliness through the gift of Jesus and his sacrifice, then he is all that Jesus made him to be. He may have to learn what all that is but he is already perfect unto God by Jesus. Growing into his inheritance!
So, he goes on his merry way, telling all who would listen how God had saved him and cleansed him from sin through the words of Jesus. He could go one hour or twenty years or forever. Yet the truth comes with a promise, that persecution and affliction will arise because of the word sown in his heart. A religious person most like will come and say,….well now you are really not perfect you know….you need to …. or ….. or…..!! Persecution and affliction arise to choke the word, uproot the word/seed planted in the heart. Make it UN-fruitful!
Now if that man willfully returns to his sin (returns to believe he is still in sin and has to do…this or do…that for perfection) he would then be rejecting the purification he had before, by faith in Jesus. Then there is no more sacrifice for his sin. If he then doesn't believe that Jesus sacrifice still covered his sin, after the persecution came, then the man has placed his purification faith in something else like works or whatever. It is by faith alone and that sacrifice is enough for all persons for all time, no matter what!!!
Are you really not picking up on what I am trying to say? The sacrifice is done, once for all time. IF FOR ANY REASON NOW OR FOREVER one believes he is in sin again, he has rejected the sacrificial work of Jesus. Nothing changes but the mind of the individual. Believe/saved….Don't believe/damned until do or forever. IMO, TK
Hi Tim,
What makes you believe that everyone is trying to work their way to salvation but you?
Has anyone here told you they are doing that or do you have an ulterior motive to think this?
I have not heard one person here declare it, and yet each and every post you make is about this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Tim,
Are you saying they sin willfully by merely believing it is possible to sin?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 01 2011,03:26) Hi Tim, What makes you believe that everyone is trying to work their way to salvation but you?
Has anyone here told you they are doing that or do you have an ulterior motive to think this?
I have not heard one person here declare it, and yet each and every post you make is about this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You ask me a question about a scripture. I answered the best I could.If in that answer their is examples of someone attaining salvation why do you turn that on me as though I think everyone is trying to work their way to salvation.
I would have to say at this point that you don't want to hear what I think is the truth of that scripture. What kind of ulterior motive do you think possible?
When you say, every post you make is about this….salvation, I guess that is because salvation from sin is of greatest importance for humanity. To align with God or be in union/one with God there can be no sin! Even if one doesn't know what sin is, Jesus took it away forever. Jesus provided for the union of man and God as one. IF THE MAN BELIEVES HIS PERFECTION AND UNION WITH GOD! Saved from sin for me is saved from separation from God. Sin, separates man and God. I say sin is in the mind.
…Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her [ALREADY IN HIS HEART]….!
Sin is in the mind/heart before it ever can get to physical manifestation. That's why God wanted to clean the inside of the human, where his truth is, not the outside where his lies can be disguised as truth. IMO, TK
If the human mindjavascript:PopUp('https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=Legends&CODE=emoticons','HelpCard','200','400','0','1','1','1') is full of love that is the only expression that can come from that human being. So, the ultimate cleansing point is in the mind/heart first. Eradicate the belief in sin and love is all that remains. Love is what we came from. Love is what will align with God/love.
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 01 2011,03:26) Hi Tim, What makes you believe that everyone is trying to work their way to salvation but you?
Has anyone here told you they are doing that or do you have an ulterior motive to think this?
I have not heard one person here declare it, and yet each and every post you make is about this?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You ask me a question about a scripture. I answered the best I could.If in that answer their is examples of someone attaining salvation why do you turn that on me as though I think everyone is trying to work their way to salvation.
I would have to say at this point that you don't want to hear what I think is the truth of that scripture. What kind of ulterior motive do you think possible?
When you say, every post you make is about this….salvation, I guess that is because salvation from sin is of greatest importance for humanity. To align with God or be in union/one with God there can be no sin! Even if one doesn't know what sin is, Jesus took it away forever. Jesus provided for the union of man and God as one. IF THE MAN BELIEVES HIS PERFECTION AND UNION WITH GOD! Saved from sin for me is saved from separation from God. Sin, separates man and God. I say sin is in the mind.
…Whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her [ALREADY IN HIS HEART/MIND]….!
Sin is in the mind/heart before it ever can get to physical manifestation. That's why God wanted to clean the inside of the human, where his truth is, not the outside where his lies can be disguised as truth.
If the human mind is full of love, that is the only expression that can come from that human being. So, the ultimate cleansing point is in the mind/heart first. Eradicate the belief in sin and love is all that remains. Love is what we came from. Love is what will align with God/love. IMO, TK
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