What is sin this thread is for tim kraft.

[Ed J]

Hi Tim,

Your beliefs don't seem to line up with 1John 3:9-10, which is inaccurate?

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin,
because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1John 3:9-10)

Your friend
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[ftk]

Ed: Whosoever is born/recreated mentally of Gods words doth not “commit”[to make,abide,agree,continue or hold]sin: for his seed/words of truth remain in him: (since the words of truth remain in him he) he cannot sin! He is born of God/truth/sinless/perfection!! WORDS! (not deeds) Mind recreation, Words of God changing mans mind. (No works) Mind cleansing, washing away the old, recreating the new mind of Christ. (no works or deeds). All done by spirit words from God through Jesus to the mind and heart of man. After a complete recreation of the mind to the New spirit truth, with perfection accepted by man by faith the new man has grafted into the tree of life and will produce the life source spirit of love out to the world in all that they do and say. Then, after the cleansing, the fruit of the inner truth will be manifest to others.

In this the children of God are manifest (brought to light), and the children of the devil(lies):whosoever “doeth not”[same grk. word as commit] continues not (accepting and believing) righteousness is not of God,[righteousness is by faith not works] neither he that loveth not his brother.

We can both quote scriptures in support of what we have chosen to believe. I know you think you are right as I believe I am right. If I were God and paid an enormous price for the perfection of my creation and handed it to my sons and daughters on a silver platter with the only requirement for them was to believe what I did and pass it on to others who may not know and then found that they could only accept the gift if they performed some worthless little deeds to help their justification, I would be miffed to say the least.

I have no faith or trust in my own performance whatsoever. I am whatever God says I am. I can do whatever God says I can do. I have laid down(control of) my life and am taking on the truths God gives me from his words of truth. I am creating myself with the words from God given through Jesus. These are my opinions. God bless you, TK

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 30 2011,22:51)

(No works)

Hi Tim,

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Your beliefs don't seem to line up with James 2:20 either, which is inaccurate?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 30 2011,22:51)

Ed: We can both quote scriptures in support of what we have chosen to believe. God bless you, TK

Hi Tim,

With you, I choose to instead quote Scriptures that seem to disagree with what you believe;
So you can explain to us all here at H-net which is inaccurate, the AKJV Bible or your thoughts?

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,10:00)

Hi Tim, Your beliefs don't seem to line up with 1John 3:9-10, which is inaccurate? Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1John 3:9-10) Your friend Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Tim,

So let me get this straight, you don't believe that those who
don't do righteousness are identified as this Scripture suggests?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Pastry]

Tim! Jesus said this… are you going to believe what Jesus gave us, or are you going to deny that we have a written Law, the great commandments to go by? Not only that, but Jesus also magnified the Law, on the Sermon on the Mount…. Now if you are angry with your Brothers, you have committed murder in your heart…. If you deny this, you are calling Jesus a liar….

Mat 22:36 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law?

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Ireen

[ftk]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,08:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 30 2011,10:00) Hi Tim, Your beliefs don't seem to line up with 1John 3:9-10, which is inaccurate? Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. (1John 3:9-10) Your friend Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Hi Tim, So let me get this straight, you don't believe that those who don't do righteousness are identified as this Scripture suggests? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed: RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BY FAITH, NOT WORKS(TO DO)

The Greek word used “poieo” has a very wide application. It does not mean to “work” or “attempt something” that would show or cause righteousness to be. “poieo”, abide in, agree in, band together in, be in, continue not in, have not, hold not, much more!

Righteousness comes from God as a gift. God made us righteous. Nothing we did or can do can present us to God as righteous. It is out of our hands/power to make righteous. There is no deed that creates righteousness. There is no work that causes one to become righteousness. Only God can make one righteous. And it can only be accepted by faith because it is a gift. You don't work for a gift or it is not a gift.

Great scripture though, whosoever is born(accepts the new righteous creation of God) doth not commit sin: Why?: for(because Gods seed/word/truth of cleansing) remaineth in him: so he cannot sin if the truth is in him! Then a comparison between the children of God(who believeth not or don't hold fast to righteousness by faith) and the children of lies.

If one thinks he is righteous by his works or deeds or any form of effort on his part, he is lost in sin/error of thinking.That would be mental separation from God. Jesus said God doeth the works. IMO, TK

[Proclaimer]

ftk,

I agree with your post if I read it right.
But I also believe that in order to have this gift, the way to accept it is to repent.

Like a person who is forgiven for a speeding infringement, the one who forgives would surely expect the infringer to stop speeding. In the case of the covenant we have, we may well speed again, but God will forgive us again and again if we genuinely repent.

[ftk]

t8: Here is an interesting twist on the word, “repent”! The Greek word translated as “repent” has nothing to do with forgiveness. To repent of sin could only mean to turn around and go away from them. Leave sin behind. Turn around from the(sinful) way you are going(believing) and follow the new way to God. To truly repent one must turn away from thinking that they are sinning or are in sin. Sin is self-condemnation that a person puts on himself. There is no sin/condemnation in Christ so it isn't condemnation from God. If we turn away from the religious beliefs in sin, there is no sin. One who believeth in sin is in sin. Jesus took away our sin. Sin is not something you do it is something one believes. Paul said, to one person something is a sin and to another person it is not. It one says they have sin they do not have God because God does not dwell in sin.

The masses at the time of John the Baptist were following the old testament teachings and some going to the temple. When John came to straighten a path for Jesus, he told the people, “repent” or turn around from the way you are trying to find and serve God. A new way is at hand, a new covenant is near based on better promises that can actually make a worshiper clean.

John introduced Baptism with his teaching to symbolically show a washing away of the old beliefs. A mind washing of all the old testament ways, doctrines, rules, and rituals. He clearly said this is a physical washing which only prepares the way for the true Spirit washing of the water of the words of God through Jesus. He told the people it was a greater Baptism.

Jesus came and taught the Spirit of God to the people, much in dreams and parables to create pictures and visions within those who accept. This is the Baptism of the holy Spirit from God, through the words and truths of Jesus, supported by miracles of power. IMO, TK

[Ed J]

Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 31 2011,08:29)

Quote (ftk @ Aug. 30 2011,22:51) (No works) Hi Tim, James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Your beliefs don't seem to line up with James 2:20 either, which is inaccurate?

Hi Tim,

Are you saying then, that you believe James 2:20 to be inaccurate?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[ftk]

Ed: No, but your interpretation may be incorrect! There are works and deeds of human beings that are performed with physical exertion. There are works and deeds from God that are by faith, that a human being cannot do. The human cannot do spiritual power works apart from God and God cannot do physical works with hands and feet apart from Man. But God/Man can do both.

If a man allows his mind to be cleansed by the word, washed of all sin, dirty, unclean, unworthy, weak, powerless lies of darkness, unto purified perfection, the faith of the man becomes a flowing release of the power of God, plugs into or connects to, the faith of the recipient to cure whatever his ailment. The recipient must have faith to receive. The faith to receive is evidenced by the coming forward of the recipient.

Faith in God will always be evidenced by power works and deeds. IMO, TK

[terraricca]

tk

Quote

If a man allows his mind to be cleansed by the word, washed of all sin, dirty, unclean, unworthy, weak, powerless lies of darkness, unto purified perfection, the faith of the man becomes a flowing release of the power of God, plugs into or connects to, the faith of the recipient to cure whatever his ailment. The recipient must have faith to receive. The faith to receive is evidenced by the coming forward of the recipient. Faith in God will always be evidenced by power works and deeds. IMO, TK

Is this works in your way of thoughts ?;Job 1:1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil.
this is not God doing ,it is Job who is doing.

God speaking with Satan has this to say about JOB;
Job 1:8 Then the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”
By the deeds Job was doing he was called a SERVANT of God ,by God himself.

should this teach us something ?

Job 2:9 His wife said to him, “Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!”
Job 2:10 He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”
In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

this are some word of Job;Job 6:8 “Oh, that I might have my request,
that God would grant what I hope for,
Job 6:9 that God would be willing to crush me,
to let loose his hand and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then I would still have this consolation—
my joy in unrelenting pain—
that I had not denied the words of the Holy One.

this shows that even Job was following the scriptures known in his time.

Job 6:21 Now you(his friends) too have proved to be of no help;
you see something dreadful and are afraid.

Job 6:24 “Teach me, and I will be quiet;
show me where I have been wrong.
Job 6:25 How painful are honest words!
But what do your arguments prove?
Job 6:26 Do you mean to correct what I say,
and treat the words of a despairing man as wind?
Job 6:27 You would even cast lots for the fatherless
and barter away your friend

do you think Job does not know his God that he worship ?

Job 9:1 Then Job replied:
Job 9:2 “Indeed, I know that this is true.
But how can a mortal be righteous before God?
Job 9:3 Though one wished to dispute with him,
he could not answer him one time out of a thousand.
Job 9:4 His wisdom is profound, his power is vast.
Who has resisted him and come out unscathed?
Job 9:5 He moves mountains without their knowing it
and overturns them in his anger.
Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place
and makes its pillars tremble.
Job 9:7 He speaks to the sun and it does not shine;
he seals off the light of the stars.
Job 9:8 He alone stretches out the heavens
and treads on the waves of the sea.
Job 9:9 He is the Maker of the Bear and Orion,
the Pleiades and the constellations of the south.
Job 9:10 He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed,
miracles that cannot be counted.
Job 9:11 When he passes me, I cannot see him;
when he goes by, I cannot perceive him.
Job 9:12 If he snatches away, who can stop him?
Who can say to him, ‘What are you doing?’
Job 9:13 God does not restrain his anger;

Job 9:20 Even if I were innocent, my mouth would condemn me;
if I were blameless, it would pronounce me guilty.

Job 9:21 “Although I am blameless,
I have no concern for myself;
I despise my own life.

Job 12:5 Men at ease have contempt for misfortune
as the fate of those whose feet are slipping.
Job 12:6 The tents of marauders are undisturbed,
and those who provoke God are secure—
those who carry their god in their hands.

Job 12:7 “But ask the animals, and they will teach you,
or the birds of the air, and they will tell you;
Job 12:8 or speak to the earth, and it will teach you,
or let the fish of the sea inform you.
Job 12:9 Which of all these does not know
that the hand of the LORD has done this?
Job 12:10 In his hand is the life of every creature
and the breath of all mankind.
Job 12:11 Does not the ear test words
as the tongue tastes food?
Job 12:12 Is not wisdom found among the aged?
Does not long life bring understanding?

Job 12:13 “To God belong wisdom and power;
counsel and understanding are his.
Job 12:14 What he tears down cannot be rebuilt

Job 13:13 “Keep silent and let me speak;
then let come to me what may.
Job 13:14 Why do I put myself in jeopardy
and take my life in my hands?
Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him;is this not faith?

Job 15:20 All his days the wicked man suffers torment,
the ruthless through all the years stored up for him.
Job 15:21 Terrifying sounds fill his ears;
when all seems well, marauders attack him.
Job 15:22 He despairs of escaping the darkness;
he is marked for the sword.
Job 15:23 He wanders about—food for vultures;
he knows the day of darkness is at hand.
Job 15:24 Distress and anguish fill him with terror;
they overwhelm him, like a king poised to attack,
Job 15:25 because he shakes his fist at God
and vaunts himself against the Almighty,
Job 15:26 defiantly charging against him
with a thick, strong shield.

Job 15:27 “Though his face is covered with fat
and his waist bulges with flesh,
Job 15:28 he will inhabit ruined towns
and houses where no one lives,
houses crumbling to rubble.
Job 15:29 He will no longer be rich and his wealth will not endure,
nor will his possessions spread over the land.
Job 15:30 He will not escape the darkness;
a flame will wither his shoots,
and the breath of God’s mouth will carry him away.
Job 15:31 Let him not deceive himself by trusting what is worthless,
for he will get nothing in return.
Job 15:32 Before his time he will be paid in full,
and his branches will not flourish.
Job 15:33 He will be like a vine stripped of its unripe grapes,
like an olive tree shedding its blossoms.
Job 15:34 For the company of the godless will be barren,
and fire will consume the tents of those who love bribes.
Job 15:35 They conceive trouble and give birth to evil;
their womb fashions deceit.”

what can a friend do when he sees a man like Jod suffer;this is what Job would do of a deed ;Job 16:1 Then Job replied:
Job 16:2 “I have heard many things like these;
miserable comforters are you all!
Job 16:3 Will your long-winded speeches never end?
What ails you that you keep on arguing?
Job 16:4 I also could speak like you,
if you were in my place;
I could make fine speeches against you
and shake my head at you.
Job 16:5 But my mouth would encourage you;
comfort from my lips would bring you relief.

Job 21:7 Why do the wicked live on,
growing old and increasing in power?
Job 21:8 They see their children established around them,
their offspring before their eyes.
Job 21:9 Their homes are safe and free from fear;
the rod of God is not upon them.
Job 21:10 Their bulls never fail to breed;
their cows calve and do not miscarry.
Job 21:11 They send forth their children as a flock;
their little ones dance about.
Job 21:12 They sing to the music of tambourine and harp;
they make merry to the sound of the flute.
Job 21:13 They spend their years in prosperity
and go down to the grave in peace.
Job 21:14 Yet they say to God, ‘Leave us alone
!
We have no desire to know your ways.
Job 21:15 Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
What would we gain by praying to him?’
Job 21:16 But their prosperity is not in their own hands,
so I stand aloof from the counsel of the wicked.

Job 21:17 “Yet how often is the lamp of the wicked snuffed out?
How often does calamity come upon them,
the fate God allots in his anger?
Job 21:18 How often are they like straw before the wind,
like chaff swept away by a gale?
Job 21:19 It is said, ‘God stores up a man’s punishment for his sons.’
Let him repay the man himself, so that he will know it!
Job 21:20 Let his own eyes see his destruction;
let him drink of the wrath of the Almighty.
Job 21:21 For what does he care about the family he leaves behind
when his allotted months come to an end?

sin is part of what we do or not do what prevent us to do sin is the will to please God with all our hearts

Pierre

[ftk]

Pierre: Fearing God is to “respect” God, not to be afraid of him. Fear is the opposite of faith. Faith is what pleases God. Being afraid of God would be like saying, have no faith in God!! Fearing for his family's future is what got Job over into his own destructive powers, pronounce by him on his family.

To shun evil is to not partake of evil. So what is evil? There was no judgment at that time. There were no laws. There were no rules. There were no commands from God. There was nothing “to do” or “not do”. So what was evil? Believing there was evil. The deceiver/satan began creating a fearful, destructive force in Job's mind that was opposing the true force of life and creation, God.

Lets look quickly at Job 1:11…., satan tries to invoke God to act unjustly against Job….but put forth thy hand now and touch all that he has and he will surely curse thee to thy face. Lets hear now what was deception or the deceiver attempting to get God to do? He was attempting to get God to destroy all Job had. God didn't do it!! God wouldn't do it. God wouldn't let Satan touch Job! Job had already begun to fear life as in “be afraid” in his life. Look at it. He was doing extra sacrifices, more offerings, afraid for his family's well fair. God told satan that…..behold, look at him, all that he has is in your power (fear, negative, worry,) or what he is saying with his woa's and sad fears was because that is what Job was pondering and thinking.

God did not give Job over to be destroyed. Job, with the creative power of his thoughts, like our Father, God, began to worry (the opposite of faith) and fear for his family's lives and well fare. This is what moved Job over into the deception arena of destruction. The things Job feared the most came upon Job. Satan/deception is the beginning of fear of any sort. Fear is the opposite to faith. Fear destroys and kills. Faith and love create and live on.

If Satan had any real power he could have just killed Job. He has no power other than lies. He is a lie of thought. Satan is AS a lion, he is not a Lion! He is the fearful lies in your head or heart or mind. Deception uses your creative power to destroy yourself and others. Don't buy the lie.

I don't have time right now but there is so much more. If any of this resonates to you we can go on further. IMO, TK

[terraricca]

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 03 2011,11:23)

Pierre: Fearing God is to “respect” God, not to be afraid of him. Fear is the opposite of faith. Faith is what pleases God. Being afraid of God  would be like saying, have no faith in God!! Fearing for his family's future is what got Job over into his own destructive powers, pronounce by him on his family. To shun evil is to not partake of evil. So what is evil? There was no judgment at that time. There were no laws. There were no rules. There were no commands from God. There was nothing “to do” or “not do”. So what was evil? Believing there was evil. The deceiver/satan began creating a fearful, destructive force in Job's mind that was opposing the true force of life and creation, God. Lets look quickly at Job 1:11…., satan tries to invoke God to act unjustly against Job….but put forth thy hand now and touch all that he has and he will surely curse thee to thy face.  Lets hear now what was deception or the deceiver attempting to get God to do? He was attempting to get God to destroy all Job had. God didn't do it!! God wouldn't do it. God wouldn't let Satan touch Job! Job had already begun to fear life as in “be afraid” in his life. Look at it.  He was doing extra sacrifices, more offerings, afraid for his family's well fair. God told satan that…..behold, look at him, all that he has is in your power (fear, negative, worry,) or what he is saying with his woa's and sad fears was because that is what Job was pondering and thinking. God did not give Job over to be destroyed. Job, with the creative power of his thoughts, like our Father, God, began to worry (the opposite of faith) and fear for his family's lives and well fare. This is what moved Job over into the deception arena of destruction. The things Job feared the most came upon Job. Satan/deception is the beginning of fear of any sort. Fear is the opposite to faith. Fear destroys and kills. Faith and love create and live on. If Satan had any real power he could have just killed Job. He has no power other than lies. He is a lie of thought. Satan is AS a lion, he is not a Lion! He is the fearful lies in your head or heart or mind. Deception uses your creative power to destroy yourself and others. Don't buy the lie. I don't have time right now but there is so much more. If any of this resonates to you we can go on further. IMO, TK

tk

read all my comment back because i do not talk about Satan
but about the man Job and God ,interaction,and also Jobs friends

see Job faith and truth

Pierre

[ftk]

Pierre: The word “considered” is a key in Job. Remember mankind had created a mental trap for himself passed down from Adam. Man believed good and evil. If Job had never allowed his mind to drift over to the negative, destructive, evil influence he would have not had the experience he had. God said to the deceiving spirit, why have you leaned on, heaped on, put influence to Job. He is righteous and upright before God. But now he is slanted to your ways of evil/fear. Later look at Jobs turn around.

Look and see the progression of Jobs thinking that brought on the destruction that Job was beginning to experience.
Job had much money/possessions. All was well when Job began to start thinking fearful thoughts. To the degree a man is thinking fear and bad things to happen in life is the degree that fear and bad things will happen.

Read and look at what he was thinking and saying. He began to fear for his family, his livestock, his possessions and all their health. Along with his moaning, groaning and fears came well intentioned friends. I say they were confirmations of fear and evil. Maybe they intended to consul and grieve with Job but that just throws fuel on the fire that's already burning.

When you read notice that all the words spoken are inner beliefs of the one speaking. They are not necessarily truth. They are just the thoughts of that person at that time. Including what the friends said. They all had OPINIONS of what God wanted or was doing but they were not based on the truth from God.

If you read it, knowing what we know now, that we are to look for good news only in God, you will see the truth and untruth. Anything that destroys, kills, or harms in any way is not God. TK

[ftk]

Read…The Error of Job..by K.A. Williams….Finished Work Ministries, Alabama…order 1-256-771-5667 or [email protected] or Kindle Books has it. Really good reading for all. TK

[Ed J]

Hey Tim,

Do you believe Jesus' death on the cross was necessary for our salvation?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 03 2011,22:17)

Read…The Error of Job..by K.A. Williams….Finished Work Ministries, Alabama…order 1-256-771-5667 or [email protected] or Kindle Books has it. Really good reading for all. TK

Hi Tim,

Was Job (before his troubles) perfect or in error?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (ftk @ Sep. 01 2011,22:22)

Ed: Faith in God will always be evidenced by power works and deeds. IMO, TK

Hi Tim,

Thanks for finally agreeing with me!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[ftk]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 04 2011,11:30)

Hey Tim, Do you believe Jesus' death on the cross was necessary for our salvation? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Ed: I don't know! The Bible doesn't say. I do know that Jesus himself said my life is mine, to pick up or lay down, NOBODY takes it from me.

This tells me that Jesus made the decision to lay down his life the way he did that the misguided masses of the time would understand it as the final sacrifice unto God. I don't believe God ever required blood sacrifices or offerings. They meant nothing. They only pertained to mans warped beliefs about God. Love could never require anything much less death of an innocent animal.

I believe there is a difference in Jesus coming to lay his life down for mankind's benefit and God sending Jesus to die or condemning Jesus to die. Especially I believe God did not sacrifice his firstborn son, Jesus. Jesus laid his own life down for the eternal benefit of mankind so they would believe they are sinless perfection forever. So, hows that “sinless perfection” doctrine coming along at the First Church? TK

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