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Wispring: My bad! I flew off into the wild blue yonder in my mind and wrote it all down. My appoligy. I sure hope that somone somewhere needed to hear what I wrote in my last post. It no doubt missed almost every aspect of what you posted. I'm still reading yours and will continue until I feel I fully understand. I do not consider myself the brightest light in the room but I am tenacious to truth. Some truthes are closer to the surface and easy to get hold of. That post was down deep and for me needs some time and attention. I will try not to fly off into the world of Tim and more accurately stay on track. Bless you, TK
I just picked up this thread. I like the discussion of the creation. Too many people overlook its importance in understanding our reationship to God and Jesus Christ's role in our redemption. Here's how I see the creation story.
God (through Jesus Christ) made the creation. God created Adam and Eve. Everything worked the way he wanted it to. God gave Adam and Eve free-will because he wanted mankind to love him for how awesome his is, not because we have no other option.
Up until they partook of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve lived in the perfect love and knowledge of God. They always did God's will, because there was a perfect communion between God and his creation. When they ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve, as the serpent said, became like God; able to know something other than God's will. In effect, they gained the ability to know that there were things that were “good” (righteous or the will of God) and things that were “evil” (or against the will of God).
In breaking God's command not to eat of the tree, they had sinned and were banished from the garden. The way I see it, in eating of the tree, Adam and Eve had taken on themselves the burden of deciding what is right and wrong instead of existing in God's will (perfect love). This would be the burden of mankind troughout history. I see the old testament as God's proof that even if he tells (and writes down for us) everything that we have to do to be righteous, of our own will, we cannot do it. We cannot choose the “right” thing to do without the direct connection that Adam had in the beginning.
So in my view sin is simply not doing God's will. It doesn't mean a list of things that are bad or wrong, it is simply not doing what God wants you to do. Doing the most self-sacrificing missionary work is still sin if that is not what God wants you to be doing.
Here is the neat part. What Christ did on the cross was to enable us to have the same connection to God that he did while on earth; the same connection that Adam had in the beginning. Instead of taking the choice upon himself as to the right or wrong thing to do at any given moment, he asked God what to do. He could have chosen, just as Satan and Adam had previously, to decide for himself what the right or wrong thing to do is, but he didn't. He did exactly what God wanted him to do at each moment. He gave us the choice, not to do good or evil, but to not choose; to just do God's will. (this is the danger of the trinity; by making Jesus into God, it denies that Jesus could have done other than God's will. The power of Christ's life is that he did what Adam and Satan had not; he chose not to choose, and thereby redeemed us all, if we choose to follow him).
This direct connection (unity or “oneness”) with God that Adam had (and lost) and Jesus had (and passed on to us) is the Holy Spirit. When we accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. We open the door to being filled with the Holy Spirit which allows us the ability to live as Christ did. We now have the ability, not to choose “right” and “wrong”, but to not choose; to only do what God wants us to be doing at each moment. This is to live each moment in the fullness of the knowledge of God; to live in everlasting love and unity with God, Christ, each other, and the creation!!
It is our choice whether each moment we choose to seek God's will through the Holy Spirit, or to partake of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and decide that we know what the right or wrong thing to do in any given moment. The power of this revelation floors me with the perfection of God's plan and what Christ did for us on earth through his life, death, and ressurection. GOD BE PRAISED!
I know that this only scratches the surface of the depth of what God has done, but I pray that it might be a starting point to explore the awesome power that God through Christ Jesus has made available to us.
-God Bless,
Bernard
Bernard
Quote We open the door to being filled with the Holy Spirit which allows us the ability to live as Christ did. We now have the ability, not to choose “right” and “wrong”, but to not choose; to only do what God wants us to be doing at each moment. This is to live each moment in the fullness of the knowledge of God; to live in everlasting love and unity with God, Christ, each other, and the creation!! so the holy spirit is the spirit of the word of God ?
Jas 3:17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
Jas 3:18 Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness.Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Pierre
Sin is using the powerful mind of Christ that we all are born with and accepting or believing that there is anything that can separate you from God. Sin is self-condemnation for doing or not doing something that you think is against God. A pure mind of Christ has no sin. There is therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ. A pure mind accepts that truth. A sinful mind rejects that as truth and exalts itself above God and makes rules unto themselves of either “good” or “evil”. There is no “evil” in the mind of Christ.
There is no evil in God. There is no evil in Jesus. I choose not to believe in evil. There is God and God is good and God is everywhere, so good is everywhere. God is life, evil is death. Jesus gave us eternal life. There is no evil in life. Evil and its byproducts or fruit is outside of God, outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. Anyone that accepts evil is in darkness, and doesn't know the truth. They don't know where they are going. They stumble like a drunkard. They need the words of Jesus to lighten their pathway to God. The truth is light.
Sin is an errant belief, accepted by man, of something the man chooses to call evil, bad, wrong, anti-life etc.! Our entire relationship with God is in the mind/heart. Oneness with God or separation from God, is all in the mind. The mind can believe the truth of God or the mind can believe an illusion of the truth! An illusion of truth means one believes something, as truth of God, but it is not of God, it is only truth to them. Actions or deeds come from the seed growing in ones heart. If it is an evil seed it will produce that which tears down, destroys, hurts or kills, etc.! It we are of the seed of life, grafted into the tree of life we have no sin or evil within.
If Jesus is the vine and we are the branches we are grafted into the tree of life. If we believe in sin (remain in sin) or evil or death etc., we cannot be grafted into the tree of life. Death cannot mix with life. If we accept the mind of Christ through Jesus there can be no evil/death and we will confess that we are pure, clean, sinless, spotless, worthy, made whole and perfect unto God. Then we would be fully grafted into the tree of life. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 28 2011,21:36)
A sinful mind rejects that as truth and exalts itself above God and makes rules unto themselves of either “good” or “evil”.IMO, TK
Hi Tim,Would making up no rules for oneself be exalting oneself above what God has said?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgSaying anything that does not agree with what God says is exalting ones self or position above God. God says you are clean. If you say you are not, I say that is placing your word above Gods. God says Jesus took away our sin. God only says what is true.
Ed what do you say is sin? TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 29 2011,09:03) Saying anything that does not agree with what God says is exalting ones self or position above God. God says you are clean. If you say you are not, I say that is placing your word above Gods. God says Jesus took away our sin. God only says what is true. Ed what do you say is sin? TK
tkQuote God says Jesus took away our sin this is true but Christ sacrifice does take our sins away unless we change our ways and behavior to the will of God just as Jesus and his apostles have shown us in scriptures ,so it is conditional
to us and it is true IF we submit to God,other wise we will die in our sins
Pierre
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 29 2011,02:03) Saying anything that does not agree with what God says is exalting ones self or position above God. God says you are clean. If you say you are not, I say that is placing your word above Gods. God says Jesus took away our sin. God only says what is true. Ed what do you say is sin? TK
Hi Tim,Sin is the transgression of the law (God's commandments). (1John 3:4)
Do you reject God's commandments (The Law); Tim?
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments.
This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from
the beginning, ye should walk in [God's commandments]. (2 John 1:6)For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments (The Law) are not grievous. (1 John 5:3)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: Jesus said (Matt.7:12)…doing unto others as you would have them do unto you….. is both the Law and the Prophets!
God did not give us a “law” (as in rules to follow or be in sin) in the New Testament. His “commandment” or suggestive precepts for mankind is Love. Love is not a law. Love does not rule or control. Love does not demand a thing.
If Jesus took away the sin of the world there would be no need for a law.
We have been made free from sin. Rom.6:18
The reason Jesus appeared was to put away sin. (1John3:5) Jesus did take away the sin of the world…(John1:29)
Those that believe have been cleansed from sin by the blood of Jesus are clean by faith.
Ed, could you show me where the law of the New Testament is written? Otherwise there is no “Law” to follow. TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 29 2011,05:18) Ed: Jesus said (Matt.7:12)…doing unto others as you would have them do unto you….. is both the Law and the Prophets! TK
Hi Tim,And so is loving your neighbor as yourself.
Can either of these be done without actions? (James 2:14-18)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (ftk @ Aug. 29 2011,05:18) Ed: (1)God did not give us a “law” (as in rules to follow or be in sin) in the New Testament. (2)His “commandment” or suggestive precepts for mankind is Love. (3)Love is not a law. 4)Love does not rule or control. (5)Love does not demand a thing.
(6)If Jesus took away the sin of the world there would be no need for a law.
(7)We have been made free from sin. Rom.6:18
(8)The reason Jesus appeared was to put away sin. (1John3:5) (9)Jesus did take away the sin of the world…(John1:29)
(10)Those that believe have been cleansed from sin by the blood of Jesus are clean by faith.
(11) Ed, could you show me where the law of the New Testament is written? Otherwise there is no “Law” to follow. TK
Hi Tim,1) Huh?
2) Yes.
3) FALSE! (Read Jer.31:33 / Heb.8:10)
4) FALSE! (Do you give your Grandchildren rules?)
5) True.6) Do you believe the world is without sin?
7) Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (John 8:34)
8) Has he put away sin in you?
9) Has he put away sin in the world?10) What does one repent of?
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:6)11) Sure. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matt 7:12)
IS DOING AN ACTION OR MERELY A THOUGHT?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHey Ed:[Quote]6) Do you believe the world is without sin?
7) Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. (John 8:34)
8) Has he put away sin in you?
9) Has he put away sin in the world?10) What does one repent of?
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance;
seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame. (Heb 6:6)11) Sure. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. (Matt 7:12)[Quote/]
6) I thought we were in the world but not of the world.
7) Do you commit sin? I thought religiously speaking that “…we sin every day even if we don't know we sin”…! That is sin consciousness!
8) Yes Jesus took away my sin when he told me the truth. Jesus saved me from sin. I am no longer separated from God in my mind. One can't be physically separated from God, for God is everywhere. Only in the mind, where God/spirit/truth/Jesus live could a person “believe incorrectly” that he has done something, that he call sin, and is thereby separated from perfect union with God. That is self condemnation declared by the person on his own self to separated himself from God in his mind. Separation from God is a lie of illusion. Only the individual person has the power to stop self incrimination and be at peace with God.
One can find all the scriptures he wants to support judgment, condemnation, sin, all forms of death and destruction, especially if he chooses to go back to the old testament that produced sin beliefs. If one chooses to follow Jesus, and see God as love can find total perfection of himself, as a gift, accepted by faith. No one works for a gift or it wouldn't be a gift.9) Jesus took away the sin of the whole world, who will believe that he did? Only by faith!
10) Repent means to turn from the way you were going! When John the Baptist told the people that were going to the temple to worship to repent, he was saying, turn around from that way, the temple, the law, works, rituals, pharisees, etc., the old way of sin and darkness, and wash your mind of all the old teachings (that produced sin and death). John was preparing the way of the lord who would bring the true, final Baptism of spirit words from God.
If a person repents or turns away from the wrong way of (physical works, deeds, efforts to please God) and accepts total salvation from God through the words of Jesus, by faith, he is cleansed and made whole and pure at that time. If later he begins to attempt to work out his salvation trying to be better or more pure then he is denying the final sacrifice for sin, as not enough to cleanse to the utermost. Which brings to naught the original acceptance by faith in the words of Christ. There remains no further sacrifice. One will die in those beliefs unless he exercises faith again that perfection is paid for, and saves forever. IMO, TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 29 2011,02:03) Saying anything that does not agree with what God says is exalting ones self or position above God. God says you are clean. If you say you are not, I say that is placing your word above Gods. God says Jesus took away our sin. God only says what is true. Ed what do you say is sin? TK
Tim! What about this Scripture1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
IN the past they had to scarify an animal for their sins…. Today we have Jesus Christ who is our perfect Scarifies…He is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and confess our sins, and in a twinkle of an eye we are forgiven….. To say we don;t sin is not according to Scriptures…. Jesus also magnified the Law and made it Holy…. Now if we even are angry with our fellow man we have committed murder in our hearths… Jesus gave all of this to us, under the New Covenant, and what do you say??
I don't want to judge anyone, but when I see what you say to others like Mark, I even take offense to that… We are trying to be clean and until Satan is put away, He will have a field day, because he knows he only has a short time left…We also have to take all Scriptures into consideration, and not just what we like…. Sin is still in this world, we should not ignore it… To ignore it is to give Satan more power over us…. Why? You might not even know that you have sinned…. Satan has blinded those who don't see all of Gods Word to us…. We also don't exalt our self by showing others Scriptures they miss… And you have missed those above Scriptures in John 1:8-9
Believe me I mean no harm, but consider what Jesus said on the
Sermon on the Mount… And the great Commandments… They still are for all of us.and that includes you .IreneIrene: God bless you. How can you quote 1John1:9 and say we still have sin? 1:8 says we had sin but 1:9 completely wipes it out! If we acknowledge (confess) sin, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SIN, (AND) CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!!
Are we cleansed from all unrighteousness? Yes! If he is faithful and just, and he is!!! If we are clean we have no sin.
We had sin, BUT Jesus came and paid the price to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That means we are cleansed of sin by Jesus. Jesus took away our sin. Jesus took away the sin of the world. Jesus saves us from sin. If we still say we have sin we make him a liar! We don't have sin, Jesus took it away by giving us the truth. His words are truth.
Sin is in the mind of those who believe in sin. Believing in sin is a “sin consciousness” which can receive nothing from God.
……
Quote We are trying to be clean ….. Working for you own cleanliness is denying the work done by Jesus. Saved from sin is a “gift” from God accepted by faith. You do not “pay” for a gift freely given.
God's words of truth through Jesus make lies and deceptions of religion of no avail. The truth cast's out “devils” which are lies. We are fighting a war against lies and deceptions against the truth of Jesus. A lie only has whatever power you give it. If you ignore a lie it will no be in your consciousness. Even lies and deceptions from wicked spirits in high places, like church hierarchy! IMO, TK
Quote
Irene: God bless you. How can you quote 1John1:9 and say we still have sin? 1:8 says we had sin but 1:9 completely wipes it out! If we acknowledge (confess) sin, HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SIN, (AND) CLEANSE US FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS!!!Tim! Is that why you think we don't sin any longer? Well you know the Bible does not contradict itself….
John in verse 6 states if we believe we don't sin, the truth is not in us. Then He turns around and says now forever you don't sin? I don't think so…..But look I am not going to go around in circles with you about this…. I am totally convinced you are in the wrong, and John is right.
If we believe that we don't sin, the truth is not in us… take this to the Bank, my friend…IreneQuote
Working for you own cleanliness is denying the work done by Jesus. Saved from sin is a “gift” from God accepted by faith. You do not “pay” for a gift freely given.
Tim
What, are you kidding me….. The gift by faith in Jesus is grace and our salvation… You got it all wrong…Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
John is not talking bout salvation and grace at all…. better start studying some more….IreneHi Tim,
Sin is the transgression of the law. (1John 3:4)
How do you break “The Law” with a thought?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd: There is no “Law” to transgress…..The old testament law of Moses was fulfilled and completed by Jesus. If you are attempting to make “love” a law, good luck. The old law created sin and death. We have been made free from the law of sin and death. Jesus appeared to put away sin…he did for those who believe. Sin still exists for those who choose sin. The law still exists for you by your choice of belief. I choose life and peace, you can choose death and sin if that's what you want to do.
Old or New Testaments, good or evil, life or death, sin or cleanliness, light or darkness, truth or illusion of truth. It is obvious to me that yanking scriptures from different areas of the Bible a man can justify himself or condemn himself depending on how he sees his God. If he chooses to put himself under a law or laws or rules, whatever that is fine. Its his choice. To find the God of Jesus one must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently follow him!! If a man follows Jesus as final master and lord he will find life and peace. I have chosen life, peace, sinless perfection, worthiness, and oneness with God/Jesus. The gospel brings peace. TK
Quote (ftk @ Aug. 30 2011,09:49) Ed: There is no “Law” to transgress…..The old testament law of Moses was fulfilled and completed by Jesus. If you are attempting to make “love” a law, good luck. The old law created sin and death. We have been made free from the law of sin and death. Jesus appeared to put away sin…he did for those who believe. Sin still exists for those who choose sin. The law still exists for you by your choice of belief. I choose life and peace, you can choose death and sin if that's what you want to do. Old or New Testaments, good or evil, life or death, sin or cleanliness, light or darkness, truth or illusion of truth. It is obvious to me that yanking scriptures from different areas of the Bible a man can justify himself or condemn himself depending on how he sees his God. If he chooses to put himself under a law or laws or rules, whatever that is fine. Its his choice. To find the God of Jesus one must believe he is and that he is a rewarder of those who diligently follow him!! If a man follows Jesus as final master and lord he will find life and peace. I have chosen life, peace, sinless perfection, worthiness, and oneness with God/Jesus. The gospel brings peace. TK
Hi Tim,You got your facts backwards.
The Law didn't create sin, it created
the exposure of sin. If you are trying to
abolish God's laws, are you not also trying
to hide sin, as Cane tried to hide his murder?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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