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Quote (trettep @ May 23 2005,03:19) Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.
Paul[/quote]
Hi,
Does scripture say
” all who are sons of God have the Spirit of God”? No
Does scripture say
“all who have the Spirit of God are sons of God”? NoScripture says
“all who are LED by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”So you have reversed the scripture and reduced it and yet claim it shows your meaning.
It does not.
Scripture says there are other sons of God in Job 1,2 and 38. Do you say they also must have the Spirit of God? Are they not greater than Adam, a mere man? Or, because you say Adam had the Spirit you also claim he was as great as Jesus and greater than the angels?
Does everyone who has the Spirit follow the Spirit? No some will lose the Spirit as Revelation tells us.
You cannot twist scripture safely, trettep, though I am sure you did it out of ignorance.[/quote]
trettep,
I would ask you to look again at what I said here if you love the Word as you claim you do and I do not. Take your time and please do not divert into bluster or accusation but honestly look at my reply and answer it line by line.[/quote]
Nick,Now your saying that Not all Sons of God have the Holy Spirit. Now your saying that not all who have the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
Think about that Nick.
Paul
Hi,
Scripture does say in Romans 8.9
“But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to him”
It is essential to be reborn of the Spirit as well as water. Jn 3“You MUST be born again of water and the Spirit”
But the gift is freely given to those who are children of God. It is the downpayment on the fullness of salvation for the children of God.
Lk 11.13
” If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?”
“I say to you, ask, and it shall be given to you….For everyone who asks receives”1Jn 3.24
” ..and we know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us”Quote (trettep @ May 23 2005,03:24) We are warned about people like you in the Bible. I have strongly rebuked you as I should. You have some problems that need to be addressed and I hope you do. I will be avoiding your forum until which time you can come back to Jesus and reverend the Word of God. But I can't help you further if you are going to distort the Word of God. I'm afraid that your intimidated in some manner by the knowledge given to me and its causing you to sin. Because I care for you I remove myself. I hope others reading this will come to your aid – maybe the barrier will be removed and they can reach out to you and give you the help you need. Paul
Hi,
Rom 15.3
“The reproaches of those who reproached thee fell on me”Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 23 2005,11:14) You are quite right. I apologise for that comment as trettep does love the Word.
i respect thatQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2005,00:05) . I'm afraid that your intimidated in some manner by the knowledge given to me and its causing you to sin. Because I care for you I remove myself. I hope others reading this will come to your aid – maybe the barrier will be removed and they can reach out to you and give you the help you need. Paul
[/quote]
Hi trettep,
I am not fearful or jealous of any spiritual knowledge you claim to have. What you teach concerns me and I ask you to review your status in the Lord. Because your teachings go beyond scripture I am sure that their source is not the Holy Spirit of Truth. Jesus said the Spirit would remind us of his teachings but you seem happy to go beyond that truth.No one can put himself or his “inspiration” above revealed scripture.
Hi,
I am man. I am of the dust. I am earth.I live on earth. I am not that earth but as man I am derived from that earth. I am tiny compared with the earth. My body derives completely from earth as a son of Adam and I contain no physical elements apart from those found on earth. I do not contain all the elements that make up the earth but only some of them.
That seems straightforward enough.
.
Why is it that some who find Jesus has divine nature immediately assume he is the source of that divine nature or part of that source?
Beats me.
Hi,
Man is body, soul and spirit according to 1Thess 5.23Man is dust according to Gen 3.19-outer man
Man became a living being by the breath of God according to Gen 2.7-inner man.
Jesus Christ was like to us.
Outer man from the Father and Mary-conceived according to the Word-as a son of David.
Inner man -the only begotten Son of God who partook of flesh.He had no advantage over us so we can follow him.
He was a vessel for God's Spirit and so can we be.
Lamps lit and enough oil till he returns.
Maranatha. Come Lord Jesus.
Hi,
Jesus Christ was not God incarnate as trintarians would have you believe. He was born like us and seen as the same as any of us by those whom he lived among until his baptism.
Mk 6.3
” Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? Are not his sisters here with us”
That was a problem for them because v 4″ a prophet is not without honour except in his home town”We all prefer the to rely on experiences of the past, what we have seen, more than what we are seeing, and we tend to judge the present by the past.
” old wine is better”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2005,11:53) Hi,
Man is body, soul and spirit according to 1Thess 5.23Man is dust according to Gen 3.19-outer man
Man became a living being by the breath of God according to Gen 2.7-inner man.
Jesus Christ was like to us.
Outer man from the Father and Mary-conceived according to the Word-as a son of David.
Inner man -the only begotten Son of God who partook of flesh.He had no advantage over us so we can follow him.
He was a vessel for God's Spirit and so can we be.
Lamps lit and enough oil till he returns.
Maranatha. Come Lord Jesus.
Jesus was the secound Adam. Adam never came the way the rest of us did…
Adam was the first of the natural expression of man that fell…
Jesus is the first of the supernatural expression of man that lives eternally…
As the Father has life in Himself so He has given for the Son to have life in him also…Quote (malcolm ferris @ April 12 2006,12:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2005,11:53) Hi,
Man is body, soul and spirit according to 1Thess 5.23Man is dust according to Gen 3.19-outer man
Man became a living being by the breath of God according to Gen 2.7-inner man.
Jesus Christ was like to us.
Outer man from the Father and Mary-conceived according to the Word-as a son of David.
Inner man -the only begotten Son of God who partook of flesh.He had no advantage over us so we can follow him.
He was a vessel for God's Spirit and so can we be.
Lamps lit and enough oil till he returns.
Maranatha. Come Lord Jesus.
Jesus was the secound Adam. Adam never came the way the rest of us did…
Adam was the first of the natural expression of man that fell…
Jesus is the first of the supernatural expression of man that lives eternally…
As the Father has life in Himself so He has given for the Son to have life in him also…
Hi Malcolm,
Jesus is the man from heaven. But the first body he had was weak and vulnerable like ours. It was not a perfect human body that is imperishable. It hungered and thirsted and was damaged and cut and torn, and he died.
Is 53.2
“For he grew up before Him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of parched ground. He has no stately form or majesty that we should look upon him, nor appearance that we should be attracted to him. He was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief”
Why did they say to him
“Physician, heal thyself”?My understanding on the matter:
Jesus is the man from Heaven. Not born of the regular fashion of an earthly man and woman uniting to produce as son.
Some differ on that front, arguing God is the Father of us all, and Jesus was just a regular man not virgin born, simply specially chosen to be the Messiah.
I agree Jesus is the man from Heaven. But I do not agree that the sin affected body of Mary had any part in his genetic makeup.
If God provided the male part of the blood and Mary the egg then he is born in sin. Mary would be God's wife by Law, having united with God in this fashion.
Mary was just the chosen vessel to bear the Holy child of God.
Adam was uniquely begotten in that he had no mother.
Adam was also unique in that he was the first of the race of man by flesh.
Jesus as the second Adam is so because he shares these characteristics
He was uniquely begotten – having no true biological mother.
He was also unique in that he was the first of the race of redeemed flesh to live eternally.
The first Adam never achieved this original purpose as sin interrupted the processMy thoughts:
Once glorified, once resurrected, yes.
His flesh went into the ground like every one of us.
Unlike every one of us, it didn't stay there.Yes Malcolm,
His weak and damaged natural flesh was resurrected but he now has a heavenly imperishable body as will we[1Cor 15]Thought this topic should be brought forward for those that are looking at the the topic of 'Understanding how we're made…'
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 29 2004,00:40) My thoughts on this are not conclusive, nor are the necessarily right. But here goes. spirit: Comes from God and gives us life.
soul: Originally a thought of God. That thought is then given a free will and can choose his own destiny.
body: Comes from created substance and is formed by God's own hand as a jar if formed by a potter.
I would like to briefly address your comment of,”soul: Originally a thought of God.”I cannot say that I precisely comprehend what you are meaning to say with the above comment … because a “thought of God” can, I suppose, mean something quite different to what I may suspect it does.
Whatever the case, the personality and individuality of every man is of primary importance to God … so, I cannot believe the soul is the result of a fleeting 'thought of God' … on the other hand, EVERYTHING visible and invisible is the consequence of a “thought of God” … aka: the Word of God.
As God's eye remains on the sparrow … so His eye remains on us too … counting every hair on our head … and also His begging to honor us with a New Name too … this all speaks to the idea that each and every man is created with a unique personality and with individual qualities and attributes … aka: the soul. In a sense, the soul is the fingerprint of our intrinsic selves.
Concerning the soul and spirit of man, I give you this 'parable' to ponder:
You turn on your television set. The screen shows a person reading the news.
If you were to dismantle the television set screw-by-screw and bolt-by-bolt to it's smallest components … would you find that person who you just saw reading the news?
Of course not.
What would you find?
You would find a 'receiver' … what we know as a 'tuner'.The same applies to the human being.
If you were to disect the physical body and place every morsel under a microscope, what would you find?
Would you find the the substance of the person?
Of course not.
Just like the television set, you would only find a 'receiver' … a brain mass functioning with electrons.Our human body is just like a television set. You can tear it limb-from-limb and never find the substance or source of human existence. You will only find the marvel involved in the creating of the 'cabinet' or vessel itself … but not that which gives it intrinsic life and animation and personality and individualism.
If you examined the human condition under a microscope, would you find a thought? Would you be able to discern the properties of his soul or touch the attributes of his spirit? No, of course not.
Let's return to the image of the person speaking the news on the television set. To the unsophisticated … perhaps, if some long lost remote African tribe were to stumble across a television set in their village, we can imagine that the image of the person appearing on the screen would give the lost tribe the impression that the news-reader himself was actually inhabiting the television cabinet.
Then we would have to sit the village elders down and explain to them the simplicity of how the television set worked. We would have to draw diagrams in the sand showing them that the television set has an antenna which connects to a satellite which is then connected to a broadcasting centre oftentimes located half-way-across the globe.
Human beings are very much like television sets. The image of our existence which appears in our physical bodies does not originate from within ourselves. After all, the visible part of us is merely a 'receiver'.
Yet, there is an invisible component to our creation too. We have heavenly components attached to our existence which we know as spirit and soul. These invisible heavenly components belong to “heavenly places” and, as such, are connected to a 'broadcasting center' known as the Kingdom of Heaven.
In the Kingdom of Heaven there are TWO inspirators or 'broadcasting centers'. These are known as the Kingdom of Light and the Kingdom of Darkness. When the heavenly component of the spirit of man is connected to the Kingdom of Light, his physical body will show an image of peace and joy and righteousness. If, on the other hand, the human spirit connects to the Kingdom of Darkness, his physical vessel will testify to this too with an assortment of destructive evidence.
So, just like the television set can be deliberately 'tuned' to a certain channel which subsequently displays activites which are occuring from out of that particular broadcast center, a human being also has the inherent ability to be 'tuned' into the Kingdom of Heaven (invisible world of the spirits) and it is from out of that dimension where he chooses to bear witness in his physical body as to which inspirator he is listening and obeying.
Just like the TV news-person is simply an image of a reality happening in a distant geographical place, so too the human vessel shows the image of a reality happening in a spiritual [place] dimension.
Anyways, I just thought I would offer the 'Parable' and see if it may help with some understanding of things.
Hi dunno,
An interesting concept.
So the body is the physical component of our being that which allows us to be visible and express ourselves and communicate on earth.
That body, outer man, is a vessel or tent of dust origin, for our real being, the inner man or soul, derived from the living breath of God.
That inner invisible man is also a vessel for our spirit and contains the seeds of sin and death that ignorant natural life awakens and such can deceive and rule us.
Natural man is otherwise ruled by outer man and believes in only what he sees with his eyes and can grasp with his mind.
We can find written a message from our Maker called the gospel that is spirually empowered to reach our mind.
The gospel reveals that, but for the mercy of the Father, we are all under the wrath of God and destined for the lake of fire.
That gospel offers us the short opportunity of our natural lifespan to find the fountain of eternal life.
The inner vessel that we are must be forgiven and washed clean to be fit for the waters of eternal life.
The washing follows faith in God, recognition of our sin and repentance with rebirth into the Son and thus into the heavenly kingdom.
Those waters of eternal life are in the Son of God sent to earth to establish a relationship with our Maker for all men.
God demands that we put faith too in the Son as His personal envoy empowered fully to begin the restoration of His kingdom on earth.
All are able to be transferred from the natural kingdom of darkness under Satan to the eternal kingdom of light of the Son.
The light and life of the Son begin to manifest in those in the Son while they are still on earth.But the soul is fully integrated with the body while we live. It even takes to Sheol aspects of what we would say was only of those bodily functions as seen in the waking of Samuel and the rich man in Hades.
“We are fearfully and wonderfully made”
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