What IS a Servant of Christ?

Participant

Quote (Shania @ Dec. 05 2008,23:01)

Quote (Ztheberean @ Dec. 06 2008,19:14)

Quote (Shania @ Dec. 03 2008,18:09)

Here is how I understand it:

You are saved by faith. Your faith is proved genuine by your works.

Faith not accompanied by good works is not saving (genuine) faith.

Crystal is proved by a ringing sound. Does the ringing sound make it crystal? No. But if the crystal doesn't make the sound, it is not genuine.

We can only understand by going to the scriptures to see what they say about faith, not our opinions.

We are saved by GRACE through the faith that believes it is NOT of ourselves (meaning our works) because it is the GIFT of God (Eph 2:8-9). This is why we need GRACE so that we can have the obedience to the faith that is in His name (Rom 1:5).
Those who are being built upon the foundation of the apostles, which is the doctrine of grace are in the ONE accord/mind (Eph 2:20, Acts 2:42, 46) understand the need to ASK God to create Christ in them because this is His gift to His children so that they could walk in good works, not in their flesh (Eph 2:10-11).
Only these disciples, who are learners understand that it is impossible to bring Christ into yourself/heart. (Rom 10:6-7).

I am sorry, I wrote that late at night But my understanding was based on scripture, not opinion

Yes, we are saved by grace. This is the greek word “charis”, also used as “favor” in terms of spiritual gifts, hence “charismata.”

It is an outpouring of favor from YHWH that enables us to be saved. We could never achieve salvation on our own. Our debt was too great. He had favor on us and gave us Messiah.

But grace works through faith. Faith is belief. Belief is trust and confidence. If you believe, you will obey. (Remember that the Israelites did not enter the promise land do to unbelief. It was a choice on their part which led them to disobey)

Abraham believed (had faith) and his actions affirmed that his faith was genuine:

James 2:20-24

20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God , and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
NIV

So faith is connected with obedient action. What is the opposite of faith? Unbelief. This is connected with disobedience:

Heb 3:15-19
As has just been said:

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion.”

16 Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17 And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief .
NIV

Unbelief is a choice just as much as disobedience is a choice.

You are saved by grace, but if you choose unbelief, you cannot be saved. That is why grace works through faith. Grace cannot “work” through unbelief. You are still in your sin at that point.

I apologize that I said that you were saved by faith and left this out. (I was really tired) You are saved by grace- no other way. But it is the faith that enables the grace to work in you. And that is how your faith is proved genuine.

Let's keep in mind that Jesus Christ died so ALL could be resurrected.

John 17:25 -O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me.

The world has not known God, but the people who Jesus taught came to know Him.

John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.

I believe that the judgment represents a time period where those born of the second resurrection will, FOR THE FIRST TIME, come to know God.

Ezek 37 says the dry bones shall live. God will open up the graves of His people and bring them into the land of Israel, and they will know that He is the Lord.

Acts 15:15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.' 18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.

If today and yesterday, from the time of Jesus, is suppose to represent God's best at bringing people to Him, what a weak and failure of a God do we then have.

Until Christ returns God has been choosing leaders to help Christ for when he does return. He hasn't been trying to call ALL people now. It is going to take a thousand years to set up and prepare for the second resurrection. Now, has been the time to show man how horrible he is at making a prosperous, fulfilling and peaceful world. Those in the second resurrection will have died with the memory of man's world and will be resurrected into God's kingdom, and it will serve it's purpose in showing them God's Greatness. Many will quickly realize the error of their ways, while others will have to undergo further instruction to lead them into trusting in God's ways.

Shania you said, “But grace works through faith. Faith is belief. Belief is trust and confidence,” and “Unbelief is a choice just as much as disobedience is a choice.”

You can't possibly think that someone who rejects the poorly translated bible and those that teach various messages from it, are rejecting God and the Messiah? There is noway to tell who God is calling and who He is not. We are not to judge such things.

John 4:39 -And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word. 42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”

Many more believed because they saw and heard Christ with their own eyes and ears. Now what does that tell you?

Those of the second resurrection will not only see and hear Jesus for themselves
but they will SEE and HEAR his work, they will see the Glorious and Wonderful Kingdom of God and the awesome people who are living in it.

December 6, 2008 at 5:16 pm#113131

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,01:35)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 06 2008,16:50)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 05 2008,21:10)

Sorry Jodi,
It was never the intent of God to cast men in the fire as it was for Satan and his messengers.
However those who dance to the tune of the world's god suffer his fate too.

So basically what your saying is that our God is not an ALMIGHTY God?

God didn't INTEND for man to go into the fire? What sort of bologna is that?

It was not God's PURPOSE, but it happened anyway? Just exactly who is your God Nick, a pathetic looser, someone who has ALL the power and intelligence, but chooses not to use it for the sake of saving a creature of whom He Himself made, from dirt, mind you?

Hi Jodi,
What is man that God should treat him as precious?
It is a vanity to think that God owes any man anything.

Better to obey Him

So according to you Nick, God does not have full control. Things can slip and be out of His Hands, and He can't do anything about it?

December 6, 2008 at 6:36 pm#113142

Participant

Hi Jodi,
In what way did I say that?
Where did God promise to cherish the foolish men of earth and save them all?

December 6, 2008 at 8:13 pm#113156

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,10:36)

Hi Jodi,
In what way did I say that?
Where did God promise to cherish the foolish men of earth and save them all?

They may be foolish now, but they won't be after God is done working with them.

God does not save wicked people or foolish people, God does not want to have wicked or foolish people exist, what he does is get them to change so they are no longer wicked or foolish.

Nick, you said that God didn't INTEND for something to happen, but it happened anyway. Maybe you need to clarify what you said.

December 6, 2008 at 9:30 pm#113160

Participant

Hi Jodi,
So where is it written that those who refuse to come to Jesus are educated by God anyway?
Grace and peace come through Jesus Christ.

December 7, 2008 at 12:55 am#113172

Participant

Nick…..Grace is God's influencing on the heart, and Peace is also come from God, May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and (GIVE) you PEACE. It's all from (ONE) GOD. You say , So where is it written that those who refuse to come to Jesus are educated by God anyway, So did Paul of His (own) so-called (FREE WILL came to Jesus (NO), Paul a full blown persecutor of Christ did not on His own (FREE Choice) decide to chose Jesus. He was forced to by the things that happened on the road to Damascus. You need to read carefully what you wrote GRACE AND PEACE or is it TRUTH, came (THROUGH) Jesus, NOT FROM HIM, BUT (THROUGH) HIM.The word (through) says a lot.It was God working in Christ and operating through Him , Does it not say For GOD was reconciling the World to (HIMSELF) (THROUGH) Christ.

You make God the Father to be an unjust and weak GOD, that needs Mans approval to do what He decides to do . You somehow refuse to believe God (CAN) TRULY SAVE ANYONE HE CHOSES TO> He can and will open up the GRAVES and deliever His whole CREATION of the BONDAGE of CORRUPTION. Just as it says.

Nick…….if you take a honest look at how you stand and speak, you will fine it all comes from the idea of self salvation by Your “so-called “free will” , you even tribute your repentance to yourself , don't you see that pushes The Father and Jesus Out of the picture and put the spot lite on yourself, through your own choices from your own works. Salvation is a (GIFT OF GOD), not a work of self.

peace ………………gene

December 7, 2008 at 2:04 am#113180

942767

Participant

Hi:

In the days of Noah, when the door to the Ark was shut, only those in the Ark were saved from destruction. In this day, the Ark of safety is the body of Christ. Those who are not part of the body of Christ will be destroyed. No second chance. If someone dies in their sins, they also are not part of body of Christ and they will be resurrected and destroyed. This is the second death. No second chance. Jesus died for all of humanity and has paid the judgment for the first death. He died unto sin once. He is not dieing any more. The second death will have to be borne by each individual sinner according to their works.

Sorry, no second chance. This world is it. God is not willing that any man should perish, but that all may come to repentance. God is calling men into a relationship with Him and does not want to destroy anyone, but it is a choice.

God Bless

December 7, 2008 at 3:00 am#113185

Participant

942767……….who said anything abut a second Chance they never had a (FIRST) chance at salvation, You rush to destory God's creation is (NOT) scriptural and stems from the So-call “FREE WILL” thinking ( we save our selves by OUR “free Wills” ) But the rest of humanity will just be thrown into a literal lake of fire and you and Nick get the pleasure of watching it all. While these Poor stupid ignorant human beings scream and yell out into all eternity because the BY their own “FREE WILL” were to stupid to chose salvation, even if they were ignorant of it , O well. So much for GOD ability to (REALLY) save anyone. Pure foolishness 942767. IMO

love and peace……………….gene

December 7, 2008 at 3:08 am#113186

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2008,11:55)

peace ………………gene

GB,
Somehow I think Paul's experience was unique because of his chosen role.

He did not die in the process but you think all men will die and be raised for doctrine lessons?? Scripture do0es not agree with your speculation.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

December 7, 2008 at 3:09 am#113187

Participant

GB,
Would you like to design your own god?
Many do.

December 7, 2008 at 3:41 am#113193

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,19:00)

love and peace……………….gene

I have to agree with you Gene, it is pure foolishness to think of God's plan as being so pathetic, weak, completely unintelligent and merciless. I find it such a disgrace to YHWH.

December 7, 2008 at 3:48 am#113194

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 06 2008,19:08)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 07 2008,11:55)

peace ………………gene

GB,
Somehow I think Paul's experience was unique because of his chosen role.

He did not die in the process but you think all men will die and be raised for doctrine lessons?? Scripture do0es not agree with your speculation.

Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Nick just what do you think the judgment means?

Do you believe that God will raise some people from the dead just to put them back into their graves?

December 7, 2008 at 4:04 am#113197

Participant

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 07 2008,14:41)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2008,19:00)

love and peace……………….gene

I have to agree with you Gene, it is pure foolishness to think of God's plan as being so pathetic, weak, completely unintelligent and merciless. I find it such a disgrace to YHWH.

Jodi….I also find it to be a disgrace to our Loving Father who would have (ALL) men to be saved, who has concluded (all) under sin that He might Have mercy on (ALL). We certainly have a different view of our Heavenly Father the they seem to.

Kiss the little ones for me..and love and peace to you and yours Sis………………………..gene

December 7, 2008 at 4:21 am#113201

Participant

GB,
Is it disgraceful to NOT go beyond what is written??

December 7, 2008 at 5:09 am#113219

Participant

Nick……..No it's not, the problem is not understanding what is written. Thats why it takes the SPIRIT to Guide us Brother. Because much is Spiritual discerned and not as apparent as you might think, but as we grow Spiritually the words of Jesus become more clearer and make more sense to us. WE are told to Knock, Ask. Seek. because it is not that easy to understand What Jesus was talking about, we need God's guidance and revelations into our minds to come to a right understanding Brother. I am glad we are all striving now, when Jesus comes He will continue to teach us and open up more understanding to us I am sure.

love to you and yours Nick…………….gene

December 7, 2008 at 5:13 am#113220

Participant

Gb,
You cannot claim the Spirit's guidance as an excuse for going beyond scripture.
The Spirit does not speak of His own initiative.

The Spirit reminds us of the words of Jesus.
His words are spirit and life.

December 8, 2008 at 7:13 am#113407

Shania

Participant

Lets please try not to namecall other's perception's of the Almighty.

ex: “Your god is a pathetic looser.”

What if you were wrong? Could you stand before Him if He questioned you about this? Even if your brother is wrong, he is still your brother. We need to have patience and humility with each other.

December 8, 2008 at 7:42 am#113409