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Hi KW
You say
“we are told is that we have not yet not changed but when we see Jesus we shall change to be like him.”almost
1 jn3
“2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”Quote (kerwin @ May 16 2014,14:23) Wakup, I believe you insist Jesus was a spirit being who revealed flesh and bone as evidence he was not a spirit. Any comments?
Hi Kerwin:I believe that Wakeup is stating that Jesus is spirit because of the following scripture:
Quote 1Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spiritAnd yes, through obedience to the Word of God without sin even unto death of the cross, he became a life giving spirit, but he also now has a spiritual body, and that is what Jesus is speaking by saying that a spirit does not have flesh and bone. The spirit, his spirit and the Spirit of God our Father, dwells within the temple, his spiritual body.
The life that someone lives defines the person. It is through the life that Jesus lived that we have seen God.
And Hebrews 5 states:
Quote Heb 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;Heb 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;It is through the Word of God that he obeyed unto death on the cross that we also can have life and overcome sin and death.
Wakeup, correct me if I have misunderstood what you were saying, that he, Jesus, is spirit when I have stated that you were basing this statement on 1 Co. 15:45.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 19 2014,05:09) Hi KW
You say
“we are told is that we have not yet not changed but when we see Jesus we shall change to be like him.”almost
1 jn3
“2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”
Nick,I am not sure what you see in those Scripture but words have many meaning and it takes the wisdom of God to choose the correct ones.
“it doth not yet appear what we shall be” = “we have not changed”
“when he shall appear” = “When Jesus comes again”
“for we shall see him as he is.” we shall see him and he will be changed.
“we shall be like him;” we will be changed at that time”Kerwin.
Be honest to yourself.
Dont cheat yourself.**FOR WE *WILL* SEE HIM AS HE IS**.
you purposely left that one out,
for some unhealthy reason.wakeup.
Marty,
Wakeup seems to have his conclusion already made before he finds the Scriptures that supports it which leads to biased interpretation.
1Co 15:45 is a hard to understand Scripture as it is based on another Jewish teaching based on the account of Creation in Genesis 1 as well as the creation of man in Genesis 2.
Peter some of Paul's teachings are hard to understand and too many seem not to heed his warning.
There are three uses of the word created in Genesis 1. Each is the first instance of a type of creation. The first use in Genesis 1:1 and is the first instance of the physical creation. The second use is Genesis 1:21 and is the first instance of souled creatures in the Hebrew manuscripts, natural in English. The third use is Genesis 1:27 and is the creation of creatures that bear God's image, spiritual creatures. That is the order of creation.
English translations seem to have difficulties with the idea that both animals and humans are living souls and so translate “nephesh” to other words but soul when it was in regards to an animal but to soul when it was regard to a human. This common practice makes English translations harder to understand.
I mention this because the term “living soul” connects the second use of created to the creation of man as given in Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 only speaks of the creation of the natural man, the soulish man. The creation of spiritual man is spoken of in Genesis 1:27.
This is the background that Paul, a Jewish scholar, was familiar with but wakeup and other are not.
Paul also uses the two man nature of men. The inward man and the outward man, Romans 7:22 and 2 Corinthians 4:16. In this way Genesis 2:7 speaks of two Adams. This is something anyone that knows Scripture should be able to figure out. Everything is written in Scripture just like Paul states.
Quote (kerwin @ May 20 2014,06:39) Marty, Wakeup seems to have his conclusion already made before he finds the Scriptures that supports it which leads to biased interpretation.
1Co 15:45 is a hard to understand Scripture as it is based on another Jewish teaching based on the account of Creation in Genesis 1 as well as the creation of man in Genesis 2.
Peter some of Paul's teachings are hard to understand and too many seem not to heed his warning.
There are three uses of the word created in Genesis 1. Each is the first instance of a type of creation. The first use in Genesis 1:1 and is the first instance of the physical creation. The second use is Genesis 1:21 and is the first instance of souled creatures in the Hebrew manuscripts, natural in English. The third use is Genesis 1:27 and is the creation of creatures that bear God's image, spiritual creatures. That is the order of creation.
English translations seem to have difficulties with the idea that both animals and humans are living souls and so translate “nephesh” to other words but soul when it was in regards to an animal but to soul when it was regard to a human. This common practice makes English translations harder to understand.
I mention this because the term “living soul” connects the second use of created to the creation of man as given in Genesis 2:7. Genesis 2:7 only speaks of the creation of the natural man, the soulish man. The creation of spiritual man is spoken of in Genesis 1:27.
This is the background that Paul, a Jewish scholar, was familiar with but wakeup and other are not.
Paul also uses the two man nature of men. The inward man and the outward man, Romans 7:22 and 2 Corinthians 4:16. In this way Genesis 2:7 speaks of two Adams. This is something anyone that knows Scripture should be able to figure out. Everything is written in Scripture just like Paul states.
Kerwin.Have you been so long studying, and still not understand
that jesus came to repair the spirit of man.The flesh has been done,(finish), now the spirit needs working on.
Have to be moulded into the spirit of Christ.All the evil desires of the flesh needs to be squeezed out,
and replaced with the spirit of Christ.
The flesh will turn to dust,but the new spirit will be forever.wakeup.
Hi WU,
You say
“that jesus came to repair the spirit of man.The flesh has been done,(finish), now the spirit needs working on.
Have to be moulded into the spirit of Christ.”No
You will find no support in scripture for these fanciful ideas either.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,01:23) Hi KW,
If we have not changed we will know what we will be like
Nick,I am not sure what you are trying to say.
Do you mean know as in experience or know as in having knowledge?
Neither really makes sense as the fact we have not changed does not have a relationship to our knowledge of what we will change to be like. On the other hand we can either experience not being changed or being changed not both.
If I understand your chosen doctrine you believe we have not been given the knowledge of what we our new bodies will be like so it seems you probably believe this passage is stating we do not yet have knowledge of what they will be like.
Wakeup,
Quote The flesh has been done,(finish), now the spirit needs working on. Have to be moulded into the spirit of Christ. This is confusion.
The desire of the flesh is synonymous with bestial desires. It is not speaking of literal flesh. Satan has bestial desires and you do not believe he has literal flesh. According to the 1 Enoch, which you hold as Scripture and I do not, the angels lust and that is a desire of the flesh.
The Spirit renews our spirit in the image of God but even with out flesh body we have a human spirit as well as a human soul.
If we have no body then we are found naked and that is the opposite of what Scripture teaches.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,03:19) Hi KW,
Yes but we know they will be alike to the angels and the Lord Jesus
Nick,We will be like Jesus in body but there is nothing one way or another that states we will be like angels as for our body. In other ways Scripture states we will be like angels.
Hi KW,
1.Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.2.Mark 12:25
For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.3.Luke 20:36
for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.Quote (Wakeup @ May 20 2014,01:01) Kerwin. Be honest to yourself.
Dont cheat yourself.**FOR WE *WILL* SEE HIM AS HE IS**.
you purposely left that one out,
for some unhealthy reason.wakeup.
Wakeup,Not really, I just implied it.
It is pretty much a truism that serves the purpose of introducing the changed body. Jesus already has the changed body and when we see him coming in the clouds our body will change to be like his.
Nick,
All those verse are saying is we will be like angels in that we neither marry or are given in marriage. They state nothing our bodies being like the angels.
Nick,
The words “when he shall appear, we shall be like him” make it sound like it will occur no latter than his appearance.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 20 2014,03:58) Hi KW,
Like to the angels.
Nick,The first two say “but are like angels in” and the context is marriage.
Luke 20:36 is somewhat different though it seems to be an account of the same event. It use “because” instead of “but” and adds the fact that like the angels the sons of the resurrection cannot die anymore.
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