What does a win look like in afghanistan?

[georg]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 10 2009,09:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 10 2009,09:23) Hi 94, Is your focus really on the world and the powers of men? Hi Nick: My commission is to go into all of the world and preach the gospel, and that is the way that I fight. But God also, uses human govenments in law enforcement. Quote Rom 13:1 ¶ Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.   Rom 13:2   Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.   Rom 13:3   For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:   Rom 13:4   For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.   Rom 13:5   Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.   Rom 13:6   For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.   Where would the world be if Hitler would have been allowed to continue in his quest? Love in Christ, Marty

Yes, were would we be!!! I know that my Grandmother would have been dead before Her time. And so would I be. Coming from Germany, I can tell you first hand how it was. We did not even know what was happening in Dachau. We had a Jewish Family living next door to us, and the S.S. Soldiers came and got them, and we never seen them again. Also my Mother had to sign a paper promising that She would never have another Child. Why because my Grandmother and I had bad Asthma. And if you did not do what the S.S. Soldiers wanted you to, you were a dead dog. So I do sympathize with those people in Afghanistan. Since I was born in 1938 I went through the Bombing and I can tell you lots of stories.
Being now an American if I could help those people I say in God's Name please do.
Peace and Love Irene

[942767]

Quote (kejonn @ Oct. 10 2009,13:35)

Quote (t8 @ Oct. 09 2009,09:22) I disagree because having Mohammed in charge means probably going to war to do it. Having Jesus in charge means that you follow his teachings. Of course he said that we shouldn't kill, or fight against flesh and blood. So having Jesus in charge is really a matter of letting him be lord of your life and let him rule. It is not about violently imposing his rule because once you try that, you are not letting him rule at all. If you try to oppose what I say by pointing out religious history, my answer to you is that men with evil intent will use religion, science, or any other thing to further their goals. In this case you know them by their fruits. Not all who say lord lord, will enter the kingdom. Mat 10:34  “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

Hi Kejohn:

The Sword that he brought was the Word of God which convicts men of their sins and of their need  for repentance.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So why do you support the use of the sword in Afghanistan?
Is that not the way of the godless?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 10 2009,15:19)

Hi 94, So why do you support the use of the sword in Afghanistan? Is that not the way of the godless?

Hi Nick:

I have already shown you that God uses governments to punish evil doers, and I have shown you also that the way that I fight evil is by obeying the Word of God, that is my sword.

And so, I don't know what else you want me to tell you.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Jesus mentioned those who live by the sword and we are not among them.
Give to Caesar what is Caesar's but our work is not carnal wars.
Neither should our attention be on man's pathetic affairs.

[Stu]

Nick, christianity is one of the most pathetic of all of men's affairs. If you really wanted to stay above humanity you would not support the mention of christianity anywhere in the world because that is part of what is causing the problems. It is a bit hypocritical of a christian to post scripture on a website then absolve responsibility for what is happening.

Stuart

[Stu]

Quote (georg @ Oct. 10 2009,14:37)

Yes, were would we be!!!  I know that my Grandmother would have been dead before Her time.  And so would I be.  Coming from Germany, I can tell you first hand how it was.  We did not even know what was happening in Dachau.  We had a Jewish Family living next door to us, and the S.S. Soldiers came and got them, and we never seen them again.  Also my Mother had to sign a paper promising that She would never have another Child.  Why because my Grandmother and I had bad Asthma.  And if you did not do what the S.S. Soldiers wanted you to, you were a dead dog. So I do sympathize with those people in Afghanistan.  Since I was born in 1938 I went through the Bombing and I can tell you lots of stories.   Being now an American if I could help those people I say in God's Name please do. Peace and Love Irene

I didn't realise that the SS was active in carrying out eugenic policies amongst the German people. For ASTHMA! That is shocking. It must have been a frightening time.

I visited Dachau a few years ago, and Auchwitz. Both made me think hard about humanity. Auchwitz is more difficult because of all the personal effects of the victims on display.

If Germany has one really important role in the world it is to maintain these sites as a reminder to everyone.

Stuart

[Proclaimer]

What you are mostly talking about is political entites using Christianity to control people.

Jesus taught that we should love people as much as we love ourself and love God with all our hear, soul, mind.
His way is the way of peace. But the world is evil and it does persecute such as history has shown.

I could then turn around and say that science as a field has caused all sorts of evils such as Atomic bombs, classifying certain races as being lower in the evolutionary tree and using that as an excuse to annihilate them, or experimenting on people and animals to sell a product for money.

But a well balanced person could see that it wasn't science or Jesus teachings that were the cause of evils and problems in the world. Rather it is evil people using these vehicles for their agendas.

e.g., a knife is neither good or evil. It can be used to cut vegetables and can be used to kill someone. Evil comes from the beholder of the knife, not the knife itself.

When men label something as evil or problematic, then they truly lack understanding. Would you say that all Asians are cruel or all white people are racist? Statements like yours are not better than saying things like this.

You should expect a mature person to at least look at the heart, and not judge by the outward appearance. Really basic stuff Stu, but your words show me that you need to be reminded of this.

[Stu]

With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion. – Steven Weinberg

Stuart

[kejonn]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 09 2009,21:59)

Hi Kejohn: The Sword that he brought was the Word of God which convicts men of their sins and of their need  for repentance. Love in Christ, Marty

Your dogma is showing. Contextually, here is what it means:

Mat 10:35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Mat 10:36 And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.

He came to bring strife. He admits as much. The strife comes because some will put him above flesh and blood reality.

Now, how is that different than what the fundamentalist Muslim does? They put the will of Allah before that of their flesh and blood realities as well.

[942767]

Hi KeJohn:

You say:

Quote

The strife comes because some will put him above flesh and blood reality.

Yes, I believe that this is true in that as Christians we are putting him first by obeying his commandments.

But we are commanded to love our enemies and to do good to those that hate us and pray for those who despitefully use us and persecute us because we are serving the Lord. We do not compromise the Word of God with the hope that those who are not saved and are considered ememies of God because they are practicing sin will repent and be saved. Jesus is our example who when he was dying on the cross said, about those who had delivered him up to be crucified and those who actually crucified him, “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”.

Fundamentalist Muslims are not commanded to love their enemies.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 10 2009,16:07)

Hi 94, Jesus mentioned those who live by the sword and we are not among them. Give to Caesar what is Caesar's but our work is not carnal wars. Neither should our attention be on man's pathetic affairs.

Hi Nick:

There is the body of Christ or the kingdom of God within a secular society with human governments.

In the body of Christ, we fight evil with the Word of God by preaching the gospel and warning men that there will be a day of judgment. This is the way that we fight evil.

But as I have already shown you God uses human govenments to enforce the laws of society. If you give unto Caesar that which is due unto Caesar, you are supporting human govenments, and God said that we should.

You criticize the US, and some of the criticism is justified, but also, when people get in the ditich who do they call on for help?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
In what way is invading another country a call for help?

? Justified paranoia

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 13 2009,12:01)

Hi 94, In what way is invading another country a call for help? ? Justified paranoia

Nick:

We are in Afganistan because of what happened on 9/11.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
Your worldly view of man's ability to change anything surprises me.
God is in charge of His people.

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 13 2009,12:54)

Hi 94, Your worldly view of man's ability to change anything surprises me. God is in charge of His people.

Hi Nick:

You are putting words in my mouth. No one can change the heart of man except God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
So your faith does not extend to God being in control of what happens on earth?
How can God offer us prophecy if it is all beyond His control?

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 13 2009,13:13)

Hi 94, So your faith does not extend to God being in control of what happens on earth? How can God offer us prophecy if it is all beyond His control?

Hi Nick:

God has forseen everthing from the beginning to the end, but no, he does not control man.  Man has a free will.

Because he has forseen everything, he can tell us what is will happen in the future.

Actually, what Jesus said to the authority in the church, was “whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And he said, whatever you ask believing you shall receive or whatever you ask in accordance with His will, he will do it.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[NickHassan]

Hi 94,
What can mere man do to me?
Put your faith in God and not in men and their horses. ps33

[942767]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 13 2009,14:21)

Hi 94, What can mere man do to me? Put your faith in God and not in men and their horses. ps33

Hi Nick:

Our God even sent Joseph and Mary into Egypt to keep Jesus safe from Herod. It wasn't his time to die on the cross yet. His time on earth had not been fulfilled.

I don't put my trust in man, but my God, and I don't fear what man can do to me either. I already told you that.

Love in Christ,
Marty

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