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I wrote an article that some of you may find interesting:
http://webpages.charter.net/ptretter/seven.html
Paul
Hi trettep,
Welcome.
The 7 churches were referring to the children of God who were within the physical boundaries of 7 cities. There is also reference to the church in Pricilla and Aquilla's house for example.
The Church in this area. The church in that area. The church in that house. The church in New York. The church in the sports stadium. It's simply the church who meet or reside in a certain area. These churches were really just part of the one true Church. They were not denominations. They each did not have their own creed and foundation. The true Church is built on the one foundation and it is Christ who buids her. He is the head and we are the body.
Certainly the 7 churches in Revelation may also be symbolic of other churches at different times, but they were literally those who met or resided together from 7 different cities in Asia etc.
I will have a look at your page next time. Got to get some sleep.
Hi tt and t8,
The letters only apply to those who are members of Christ's body on earth, as with all the letters of the new Testament.
The number 7 is the number of perfection I understand. I suggest then that the issues brought up by Yeshua cover both the actual problems of the time AND all the problems and challenges the complete church will face throughout this age till his return.
Whether there is any sequential aspect or not I am not able to say but I would like to hear from Is1.18 on this matter given previous communication on this subject.If you read the article you will see that I approached it from 4 different perspectives. Some things I should add are these:
1Co 11:18 For first of all, when you come together in the assembly, I hear that divisions exist among you, and I partly believe it.
1Co 11:19 For there also must be factions among you, that those who are approved may be revealed among you.The 7 churches are a representation of those factions that exist all at the same time until Judgement is made upon the Church. Those verses above while they don't appear in the document I made (I should add them), are a clear reason why these 7 churches are divided in their works.
Joh 10:25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you don't believe. The works that I do in my Father's name, these testify about me.
Joh 10:26 But you don't believe, because you are not of my sheep, as I told you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.Those 7 Churches are to be judged according to their works which its these “works” that Testify of Christ. This is very important to understand. I hope others will read this document and search the Word of God and pray to understand this topic. Its a very important topic:
Rev 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the assemblies. To him who overcomes I will give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of my God.
Paul
Hi trettep,
You confuse me. You speak of seven churches. But there is really only one. You speak of seven separate factions and seven separate works of those churches. You speak of judgement on their works. But Christ is not divided is he?Yes, judgement begins with the household of God[1Peter 4.17]but surely that is as sufferings we all individually experience?
Surely we all all individually responsible for our role in the Body and if we are judged it is individual?
Yes the Church is divided as is stated in 1Co 11:18. The Church is comprised of those seven different divisions. Read the article and hopefully I won't be as confusing. Its an important topic. Don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions.
Paul
Hi tt,
The Spirit itself is One. Yes it has many expressions in each individual part of the Body of Christ. Yes it may have seven expressions, one for each church with the seven making up the entire church. That would fit with rev 4. 5 too
” …and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spriits of God”But the division spoken of in 1Cor 11 is because of lack of the Spirit not division in the Spirit. It is because men are still living according to their human nature and not in submission to God's Spirit. God only only rules where it is allowed to do so.
Most christians have yet to allow that to happen so divisions exist. They have not submitted to the Spirit in the Word to be taught and they prefer the security of human fellowship to that of the Spirit.They should have both but in the right order-Spirit then human.
Are we understanding one another ? If not please add clarifications so that we can work together here.
In 1 Cor 11 – those members of the Church have the Spirit of God which is a requirement to be in God's Church. The problem with almost everyone is that we need to have obedience to God's Spirit and we are to worship in the Spirit. Human fellowship can be very dangerous not that its bad but its accomodating for decietful desires of others to leaven the lump. Your coming to understand some of the things I have stated and I'm in great joy because of it. Many people refuse to believe in something other than what there church or minister has given them to understand. That is why I tell you that you should always use the Word of God as your filter for all things you learn whether from me or someone else.
Paul
I should mention that I started a forum a week or so ago and although it really has no action I still will be posting thing there to help others so check it from time to time if you like:
Paul
Hi Paul I made a post over there and I got the following message:
Unable to connect to database on 'localhost' with user 'freeBB'
Please check your settings in multiforums.config.inc.php!Might need to rewrite the literal path to the database in the posting script.
Here is another interesting article on this subject
Hi,
This may link in with the seven churches of Revelation.
Zech 4
” 2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.”
And the Lord of the earth is shown in ps 97
The return of the glorious vessel and the indwelling treasure of the Father's Spirit.
Ps 97
“1The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof.2Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
3A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about.
4His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled.
5The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.
6The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people see his glory.
7Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
8Zion heard, and was glad; and the daughters of Judah rejoiced because of thy judgments, O LORD.
9For thou, LORD, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.
10Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
11Light is sown for the righteous, and gladness for the upright in heart.
12Rejoice in the LORD, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.”
Almost all the books from Daniel to Malachi are crammed with information about the returning King and the Day of the Lord.
Hi,
tt's thought that it represents seven attitudes within the church does not quite align with God's Spirit being divided according to attitudes. But I think his spiritual understanding of the approach to principles behind these verses is good.Zech 4 also mentions two olive trees.
“11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.”
Are these men or angelic beings?
Compare rev 113And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
Hi,
We are told there are seven churches.
We are told there are angels of the churches.
Angels are ministering spirits according to Hebrews.
Surely the seven spirits before the throne are the angels of the seven churches?Rev 1
John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
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