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Quote (Baker @ Nov. 13 2010,21:42) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 12 2010,16:22) Irene, I address Romans 7:13-25 in my post to Gene. I previously addressed Romans 4:7-8 by pointing out that the sins, of those who believe God will teach them to and give them the power to stop sinning, committed before the promise is fulfilled will be forgiven as God will do as he promised.
kerwin! But we must not forget that we are still in this flesh, and in this flesh we will sin. That is what John says, however the LORD is not slake to forgive us our sins. If you believe we have no sins, then why do we have Mediator to go to God for? Sin is not imputed to us, that is different then to say we don't sin. The Bible does not contradict itself. In a sense you are right, since sin is not imputed to us…Rom 4:8 Blessed [is] the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
I think sometimes Paul is hard to understand. When He says what I do I don't want to do and what I am to do, that I do not…In flesh sin dwells but in the inner men, sin is not imputed, ad we are then without sin…. in the inner man….
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Peace Irene
Irenewhat Paul try to say is simple ,first we know he talks to true believers ,so what he says is this ;
our desire is in Christ to do good all of the time,because we are looking for holiness;
now Paul says; Ro 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
Ro 7:15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Ro 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
Ro 7:17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
Ro 7:18 I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
Ro 7:19 For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.
Ro 7:20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
Ro 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
Ro 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
Ro 7:23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
Ro 7:24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?so Paul because in spirit he is working to do good,and he want to do good, but he was trained in a sinful nature before he became to live with the spirit ,but the law remains the same,the man that sins will die,
but because he is living to change is live to be holy in spirit his flesh is pulling him back ,but the sins he make are not wanted or desired but happen anyway ,and so he say it is not him who sins but the nature of his flesh,
in his last sentence he ask who will save him ;well we know it is Christ that save us from our sins.
is this better??
Pierre
Pierre,
Point 1) I understand it is the spirit of righteousness that binds the unity together.
Ephesians 4:3-6(NIV) reads:
Quote Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Point 2) God in Jesus, Jesus in God, both in the believers, and The believers in them.
John 17:21(NIV) reads:
Quote that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Point 3) By it Jesus is God's Son and the believers are his children through Jesus.
John 17:22-23(NIV) reads:
Quote I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.
Other relevant scriptures:
John 14:15-20(NIV) reads:
Quote “If you love me, keep my commands. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
And
Romans 8:15(NIV) reads:
Quote The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 13 2010,06:15) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 12 2010,02:53) Gene, Paul is arguing against living under the law instead of new covenant. His argument is that when he was under the law he sincerely desired to keep it all but because he was a subject to sin his efforts were in vain until Jesus offered him deliverance.
I understand that God is more powerful than our flesh and he is the one that does it. We merely supply the faith which he gives us. As our faith grows stronger we become more mature in Christ and the bindings of sin on us become weaker and fewer.
Kerwin……….Good post Paul may have well been telling them how being under that law works in a person , Romans definitely is dealing with the Law and the difference of the New covenant. I need to check that out more , i definitely see you point though.peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
You are displaying a good attitude.Irene,
I try not to flood a thread with too many posts but no one has posted for a while and I fell a need to address one point you brought up.
You wrote:
Quote But we must not forget that we are still in this flesh, and in this flesh we will sin.
This is true for man which is why scripture declares that those who do not live according to the new covenant are slaves to sin. But scripture declares those living according to the new covenant are free of sib because God is the one doing his works through them and does not sin even in our flesh.
Jesus is the mediator that allows God to act through us because without him our past sins would alienate us from God.
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