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Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,14:28) Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 13 2007,20:56) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,13:18) Actually the Roman term for 'morning star' is Lucifer. You know, the Christian 'devil' and Jesus? How ironic.
let me ask you something?we both know that christians fail miserably at being perfect like christ so don't think I am being elitist here. We both know also however, that most of Christendom doesn't really follow the teachings of Christ. So we can't judge the Master by his wayward disciples falsely so called.
however, you have mentioned you were once a christian who lost faith and found truth in Judaism.
Does this conversion of yours actually allow you or enable you to feel justified in being a crueler person? After all you can reject the teachings of Christ and go back to eye for an eye and love your neighbors and hate your enemies.
Would you consider this a progressive step in Godly morality? Or is it a step backward?
Do you honestly believe your path is more inline with Godly morality now that you have rejected the teachings of Christ?
Yes because I don't have to be a symbolic cannibal anymore. Drink blood, eat flesh, all that. The Jewish scriptures have much more free will inherent in them than the common Christian beliefs. Except liberal Christians that is. Sort of like Reform Judaism which is basically liberal Christianity sans Christ.How am I a 'crueler person'? Because I wreck your false faith?
I am not saying you are cruel. Just asking if you feel more liberated to be that way given that you no longer believe in teachings of christ that show love as the way.i.e. turn the other cheek, love your enemies….etc.
Since you brought it up. What are you motives for trying to wreck our faith?
Are any of them good? Do you have a benevolent purpose here? if so explain. share.
Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 13 2007,21:37) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,14:28) Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 13 2007,20:56) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,13:18) Actually the Roman term for 'morning star' is Lucifer. You know, the Christian 'devil' and Jesus? How ironic.
let me ask you something?we both know that christians fail miserably at being perfect like christ so don't think I am being elitist here. We both know also however, that most of Christendom doesn't really follow the teachings of Christ. So we can't judge the Master by his wayward disciples falsely so called.
however, you have mentioned you were once a christian who lost faith and found truth in Judaism.
Does this conversion of yours actually allow you or enable you to feel justified in being a crueler person? After all you can reject the teachings of Christ and go back to eye for an eye and love your neighbors and hate your enemies.
Jesus was definitely a guy who practiced 'do as I say not as I do' because he did not love his enemies, the Jews of his day. He often called them all sorts of names.
Quote Would you consider this a progressive step in Godly morality? Or is it a step backward? Forward all the way baby. There is much more freedom in the Tanakh than Christians want to believe. They have been taught that the 'New Testament' is better. Hogwash!
Quote Quote Quote Do you honestly believe your path is more inline with Godly morality now that you have rejected the teachings of Christ?
Yes because I don't have to be a symbolic cannibal anymore. Drink blood, eat flesh, all that. The Jewish scriptures have much more free will inherent in them than the common Christian beliefs. Except liberal Christians that is. Sort of like Reform Judaism which is basically liberal Christianity sans Christ.How am I a 'crueler person'? Because I wreck your false faith?
I am not saying you are cruel. Just asking if you feel more liberated to be that way given that you no longer believe in teachings of christ that show love as the way.i.e. turn the other cheek, love your enemies….etc.
Since you brought it up. What are you motives for trying to wreck our faith?
Are any of them good? Do you have a benevolent purpose here? if so explain. share.
Because most Christians worship Jesus which is blatant idolatry. I want people to see the true G-d of all flesh, YHVH.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,15:21) Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 13 2007,21:37) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,14:28) Quote (Morningstar @ Nov. 13 2007,20:56) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 14 2007,13:18) Actually the Roman term for 'morning star' is Lucifer. You know, the Christian 'devil' and Jesus? How ironic.
let me ask you something?we both know that christians fail miserably at being perfect like christ so don't think I am being elitist here. We both know also however, that most of Christendom doesn't really follow the teachings of Christ. So we can't judge the Master by his wayward disciples falsely so called.
however, you have mentioned you were once a christian who lost faith and found truth in Judaism.
Does this conversion of yours actually allow you or enable you to feel justified in being a crueler person? After all you can reject the teachings of Christ and go back to eye for an eye and love your neighbors and hate your enemies.
Jesus was definitely a guy who practiced 'do as I say not as I do' because he did not love his enemies, the Jews of his day. He often called them all sorts of names.
Quote Would you consider this a progressive step in Godly morality? Or is it a step backward? Forward all the way baby. There is much more freedom in the Tanakh than Christians want to believe. They have been taught that the 'New Testament' is better. Hogwash!
Quote Quote Quote Do you honestly believe your path is more inline with Godly morality now that you have rejected the teachings of Christ?
Yes because I don't have to be a symbolic cannibal anymore. Drink blood, eat flesh, all that. The Jewish scriptures have much more free will inherent in them than the common Christian beliefs. Except liberal Christians that is. Sort of like Reform Judaism which is basically liberal Christianity sans Christ.How am I a 'crueler person'? Because I wreck your false faith?
I am not saying you are cruel. Just asking if you feel more liberated to be that way given that you no longer believe in teachings of christ that show love as the way.i.e. turn the other cheek, love your enemies….etc.
Since you brought it up. What are you motives for trying to wreck our faith?
Are any of them good? Do you have a benevolent purpose here? if so explain. share.
Because most Christians worship Jesus which is blatant idolatry. I want people to see the true G-d of all flesh, YHVH.
Jesus admitted he came for the Jews. He didnt preach to gentiles. heal them on occasion yes. but he came for his sheep.If Jesus rebuking sinful Jews is not loving them. Then the same can be said about the Father.
What does freedom have to do with being righteous and good?
If that was actually equatable then anarchists would be a pretty holy bunch.
Matthew 5:21 & 5:27-28
21″You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
27″You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
going back to the old law definitely sounds like a step backwards (just my opinion).
a question i have is, how do you decide which laws to follow and which ones to disregard. this is question i have posed to legalistic christians, but i am interested to hear what your opinion is, Towshab. For instance do you shave your face, if you are female then i must apologize for assuming you are a man. what about the plethora of other laws that seem to be ignored by Jews and legalistic Christians.
Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,10:03) a question i have is, how do you decide which laws to follow and which ones to disregard. this is question i have posed to legalistic christians, but i am interested to hear what your opinion is, Towshab. For instance do you shave your face, if you are female then i must apologize for assuming you are a man. what about the plethora of other laws that seem to be ignored by Jews and legalistic Christians.
The context of shaving is in mourning. It is saying that you should not shave as an act of mourning not that you should not shave at all.B.B. why asked someone that does not belief in Jesus Christ a Question? You do know what scriptures say what He is. Jewish People have so many Laws the need many bookcases for their Nooks on their Laws. You have the Inter Net if you want your Question's answered why ask it here on a Christian Tread? I have said it before and will repeat it to you, what does a Christian have to do with Anti-Christ? Scripture tells me anybody that does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti_Christ. So would you rather talk to them or somebody that has more answered on the Net. Heaven Net has all kinds of Articles, check it out if you want to, that is. The choice is yours. Man or God.
Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,09:44) Matthew 5:21 & 5:27-28 21″You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' 22But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brotherwill be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,[c]' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
27″You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
going back to the old law definitely sounds like a step backwards (just my opinion).
For the most part Jesus was a good teacher. Minus the pagan insertions in his life story Jesus would make a great role model. He had some other oddities that definitely revealed his weaknesses (he seem to have a dysfunctional view of family) and he was obsessed with people being obedient to him but overall the character of Jesus seemed to be strong. I do not deny that there ever was a Jesus, I just deny that he was the end times Moshiach. I also deny the many pagan things inserted in his life.That being said Jesus was doing what any rabbi would do: helping others to interpret the Torah. Its quite obvious that adultery doesn't just happen it starts with desire. So Jesus was getting to the root of the problem before it became an issue where the Torah would be broken.
The Christian bible grossly misrepresents the Torah. It makes the various mitzvot out to be a cut-n-dry set of rules. Anyone knows that to break a rule takes the initiative to do it. Just like the very first rule broken in Eden. Eve didn't come along and say 'Yum, that fruit looks good' she was tempted. So she first thought about it and then decided to do it. It is the same with any mitzvot.
Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 15 2007,03:27) B.B. why asked someone that does not belief in Jesus Christ a Question? You do know what scriptures say what He is. Jewish People have so many Laws the need many bookcases for their Nooks on their Laws. You have the Inter Net if you want your Question's answered why ask it here on a Christian Tread? I have said it before and will repeat it to you, what does a Christian have to do with Anti-Christ? Scripture tells me anybody that does not belief that Jesus came in the flesh is Anti_Christ. So would you rather talk to them or somebody that has more answered on the Net. Heaven Net has all kinds of Articles, check it out if you want to, that is. The choice is yours. Man or God. Peace and Love Mrs.
I repeat my previous Post. Not that one forgets.Peace and Love Mrs.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,03:22) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,10:03) a question i have is, how do you decide which laws to follow and which ones to disregard. this is question i have posed to legalistic christians, but i am interested to hear what your opinion is, Towshab. For instance do you shave your face, if you are female then i must apologize for assuming you are a man. what about the plethora of other laws that seem to be ignored by Jews and legalistic Christians.
The context of shaving is in mourning. It is saying that you should not shave as an act of mourning not that you should not shave at all.
i might have been misinformed concerning the shaving, i will go back and study it. but my question still remains, there are plenty of OT laws that are seemingly being disregarded. why are there no sacrifices these days.Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,14:06) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,03:22) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,10:03) a question i have is, how do you decide which laws to follow and which ones to disregard. this is question i have posed to legalistic christians, but i am interested to hear what your opinion is, Towshab. For instance do you shave your face, if you are female then i must apologize for assuming you are a man. what about the plethora of other laws that seem to be ignored by Jews and legalistic Christians.
The context of shaving is in mourning. It is saying that you should not shave as an act of mourning not that you should not shave at all.
i might have been misinformed concerning the shaving, i will go back and study it. but my question still remains, there are plenty of OT laws that are seemingly being disregarded. why are there no sacrifices these days.
No temple. Sacrifices will resume when the third temple is built. Read Ez 40-48.Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,07:51) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,14:06) Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 15 2007,03:22) Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 14 2007,10:03) a question i have is, how do you decide which laws to follow and which ones to disregard. this is question i have posed to legalistic christians, but i am interested to hear what your opinion is, Towshab. For instance do you shave your face, if you are female then i must apologize for assuming you are a man. what about the plethora of other laws that seem to be ignored by Jews and legalistic Christians.
The context of shaving is in mourning. It is saying that you should not shave as an act of mourning not that you should not shave at all.
i might have been misinformed concerning the shaving, i will go back and study it. but my question still remains, there are plenty of OT laws that are seemingly being disregarded. why are there no sacrifices these days.
No temple. Sacrifices will resume when the third temple is built. Read Ez 40-48.
i would like to read ezra 40-48 tell me where to find it. also i doubt that it will say anything about not fulfilling the law because there is no temple. people throughout the old testament made sacrifices with no temple. also i don't think God is so concerned with a temple, 1 Kings 8:16 & 17:16 ‘Since the day that I brought My people Israel out of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there; but I chose David to be over My people Israel.’ 17 Now it was in the heart of my father David to build a temple for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
Amos 9:11
11 “ On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle[c] of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;if i remember correctly the tabernacle of David was a mobile tent. also i still feel like you are avoiding my question.
How do you choose which laws you will follow and which ones you will disregard?Quote i would like to read ezra 40-48 tell me where to find it.
I believe by “Ez” he meant Ezekial 40-48.Quote (david @ Nov. 15 2007,16:36) Quote i would like to read ezra 40-48 tell me where to find it.
I believe by “Ez” he meant Ezekial 40-48.
Yep!Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 15 2007,15:52) i would like to read ezra 40-48 tell me where to find it. also i doubt that it will say anything about not fulfilling the law because there is no temple. people throughout the old testament made sacrifices with no temple. also i don't think God is so concerned with a temple, 1 Kings 8:16 & 17: 16 ‘Since the day that I brought My people Israel out of Egypt, I have chosen no city from any tribe of Israel in which to build a house, that My name might be there; but I chose David to be over My people Israel.’ 17 Now it was in the heart of my father David to build a temple for the name of the LORD God of Israel.
Amos 9:11
11 “ On that day I will raise up
The tabernacle[c] of David, which has fallen down,
And repair its damages;
I will raise up its ruins,
And rebuild it as in the days of old;if i remember correctly the tabernacle of David was a mobile tent. also i still feel like you are avoiding my question.
How do you choose which laws you will follow and which ones you will disregard?
Sacrifices must be performed in a place appointed by G-d. Since the destruction of the 2nd temple there has not been such a place. Some tried to continue sacrifice after the destruction of the 2nd temple but the various countries they resided in forbade them. Kohen today are waiting for the 3rd temple.Reform Judaism, and even Conservative Judaism to a point, typically sees sacrifices as 'old school'. Since there are still many ways found in the Tanakh to atone for sins many feel that blood sacrifices are no longer necessary. Reform Judaism is Christianity without Christ
.As to what 'laws' to keep, any violation of Torah is wrong. I don't pretend to know the mind of the average Jewish person but as a G-d fearing Gentile I am not bound by the covenant at Mt. Sinai. Don't Christians feel the same way? Most do. Most feel grace is enough for them and they couldn't care less about the various mitzvot much less the '10 commandments'. I merely look and study Torah and seek to uphold those things that please G-d according to what I see. Overall I seek to lead a moral life.
I guess you could classify me as a deist with heavy leanings towards YHVH as revealed in the Tanakh.
Quote (Towshab @ Nov. 16 2007,12:21) Quote (david @ Nov. 15 2007,16:36) Quote i would like to read ezra 40-48 tell me where to find it.
I believe by “Ez” he meant Ezekial 40-48.
Yep!
i feel so silly now.yes Christians do believe that we are no longer bound to the law, although most act as if they are still trying to follow it. but that is because the new testament teaches that we are not under the law. i don't understand where in the old testament you are finding that you are not bound to the law. proselytes in Biblical times were definitely under the law. also i am interested in what other avenues there are in the old testament besides sacrifices for atonement.
Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 19 2007,14:48) yes Christians do believe that we are no longer bound to the law, although most act as if they are still trying to follow it. but that is because the new testament teaches that we are not under the law. i don't understand where in the old testament you are finding that you are not bound to the law. proselytes in Biblical times were definitely under the law. also i am interested in what other avenues there are in the old testament besides sacrifices for atonement.
I am not a proselyte per se.Quote (BrutusBox @ Nov. 19 2007,14:48) also i am interested in what other avenues there are in the old testament besides sacrifices for atonement.
Go here. About the 7th post down.
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