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t8 said:
Quote You can't make Jesus YHWH by cleverly using nouns that are applied to others. Saviour is also used of others.
I am still waiting for you to show me. You have said that Moses was a “savior.” Yet Moses included himself among the delivered saying that it was the Messenger of YHWH who delivered them out of Egypt (Numbers 20:16). You guys have frequently invoked Moses as a “savior.” But Moses Himself said:16 When WE cried out to the LORD, He heard OUR voice and sent the Angel and brought US up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border.
Explain why Moses included Himself among the delivered? Jude 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt (oldest manuscripts).
Is Jesus among the delivered? If not, then He is truly and properly the Savior.
You can't make others a “savior” by cleverly using nouns that are applied to Jesus alone.
btw, YHWH Himself calls His Messenger “the LORD your God” (Exodus 23:20-25).
Roo
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,10:23) Hi KJ,
A little adjustment here and there and choosing manuscripts gives you your own dogmas. But we prefer the anointed word.
Nick,As usual you evaded my point. Moses was among the delivered. So how could he have been a “savior”?
16 When WE cried out to the LORD, He heard OUR voice and sent the Angel and brought US up out of Egypt; now here WE are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border.
Does not Moses include himself among the delivered? So how can t8 say that Moses was a “savior”?
Is Jesus among the delivered Nick?
Are you going to answer Nick?
KJ
Attn: Moderator
I misspelled “numbers” in the sub title to this topic. I left out the letter b. Please correct for me.
KJ
Hi KJ,
God is the saviour of all men in little ways and big ways all day long.
Why would a word cause you to stumble again?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,10:34) Hi KJ,
God is the saviour of all men in little ways and big ways all day long.
Why would a word cause you to stumble again?
t8 is trying to diminish Christ's Person and work as the Savior by invoking Moses as a “savior” too. But was Moses a “savior” if he was included among the delivered? Please answer Nick. This is a fair question Nick.Was Jesus included among those He delivered from sin? If not, then He is TRULY and PROPERLY the Savior.
KJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2010,10:50) Hi KJ,
If theological theory is relevant to knowing God and His son we would all jump in.
Nick,Was Moses among the delivered or not? The whole internet world is watching you dodge my simple and fair questions. If Moses was included among the delivered, then he was not a “savior.” And if Jesus was not included among the delivered from sin, then He is truly and properly the only Savior.
The internet world is watching Nick.
KJ
Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2010,18:21) Kangaroo Jack, How do you conclude that Mosses was not a savior from Numbers 20:16?
Hi Kerwin,Moses said that the Messenger of Jehovah delivered “US” including himself. He included himself among the delivered. Therefore, Moses was not a “savior.”
Furthermore, the song of Moses gives all the credit to the Messenger of Jehovah. Moses never called himself a savior. t8 is just trying to find a way to diminish Christ's Person and work as the true Savior from sin by reducing Him to the level of Moses. Since Moses was not a savior then t8's argument miserably fails.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi JK,
You keep building these weak legalistic walls so that you can protect your cute false dogmas within them.
Get a life.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 02 2010,13:44) Quote (kerwin @ June 02 2010,18:21) Kangaroo Jack, How do you conclude that Mosses was not a savior from Numbers 20:16?
Hi Kerwin,Moses said that the Messenger of Jehovah delivered “US” including himself. He included himself among the delivered. Therefore, Moses was not a “savior.”
Furthermore, the song of Moses gives all the credit to the Messenger of Jehovah. Moses never called himself a savior. t8 is just trying to find a way to diminish Christ's Person and work as the true Savior from sin by reducing Him to the level of Moses. Since Moses was not a savior then t8's argument miserably fails.
Kangaroo Jack
You need to learn how the people of Moses' time spoke as Acts 7:35 explicitly states that God made Moses the deliverer of the people of that time. It is not unknown that God will rise up a deliverer from among thoses who are being delivered.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 02 2010,10:23) t8 said: Quote You can't make Jesus YHWH by cleverly using nouns that are applied to others. Saviour is also used of others.
I am still waiting for you to show me. You have said that Moses was a “savior.” Yet Moses included himself among the delivered saying that it was the Messenger of YHWH who delivered them out of Egypt (Numbers 20:16). You guys have frequently invoked Moses as a “savior.” But Moses Himself said:16 When WE cried out to the LORD, He heard OUR voice and sent the Angel and brought US up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border.
Explain why Moses included Himself among the delivered? Jude 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt (oldest manuscripts).
Is Jesus among the delivered? If not, then He is truly and properly the Savior.
You can't make others a “savior” by cleverly using nouns that are applied to Jesus alone.
btw, YHWH Himself calls His Messenger “the LORD your God” (Exodus 23:20-25).
Roo
He was to the Israelites (Hebrews).Georg
Quote (Arnold @ June 03 2010,00:48) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 02 2010,10:23) t8 said: Quote You can't make Jesus YHWH by cleverly using nouns that are applied to others. Saviour is also used of others.
I am still waiting for you to show me. You have said that Moses was a “savior.” Yet Moses included himself among the delivered saying that it was the Messenger of YHWH who delivered them out of Egypt (Numbers 20:16). You guys have frequently invoked Moses as a “savior.” But Moses Himself said:16 When WE cried out to the LORD, He heard OUR voice and sent the Angel and brought US up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border.
Explain why Moses included Himself among the delivered? Jude 5 says that it was Jesus who saved them out of Egypt (oldest manuscripts).
Is Jesus among the delivered? If not, then He is truly and properly the Savior.
You can't make others a “savior” by cleverly using nouns that are applied to Jesus alone.
btw, YHWH Himself calls His Messenger “the LORD your God” (Exodus 23:20-25).
Roo
He was to the Israelites (Hebrews).Georg
Moses himself claims that it was the Messenger of YHWH who saved them out of Egypt (Numbers 20:16). Show where Moses called himself Israel's savior. You guys will make up anything so you can diminish Jesus and reduce Him and rob Him of the honor that the Father REQUIRES you give Him.Again, the song of Moses credits the Messenger of YHWH for saving the people from Egypt. (Exodus 14:19-15:18).
Did not Moses include himself among those whom the Messenger delivered (Numbers 20:16)?
Did Jesus ever include Himself among those who were saved from sin?
Please put forth biblical evidence or stay out of it!
Kangaroo Jack
Hi KJ,
WOULD YOU MAKE MOSES A THIEF AND A ROBBER?
NOTHING USEFUL DONE BY HIM WAS NOT BY THE POWER OF HIS GOD.forget your theological laws.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2010,06:11) Hi KJ,
WOULD YOU MAKE MOSES A THIEF AND A ROBBER?
NOTHING USEFUL DONE BY HIM WAS NOT BY THE POWER OF HIS GOD.forget your theological laws.
Nick,Should you not give the credit to the same person that Moses did, i.e., the Messenger of Jehovah?
According to Moses: The Messenger of Jehovah delivered us from Egypt (Num. 20:16).
According to t8 and Nick: Moses delivered the people out of Egypt.
Why did Moses include Himself in the number of the delivered?
KJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2010,09:51) Hi KJ,
Why do you prefer to glorify the messengers when all is of God?
Ask Moses why he glorified the Messenger (Ex. 14-15; Numbers 20:16).KJ
Hi KJ,
We should honour the messengers who work for God.
But our God is the Father, the God of IsraelQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2010,10:01) Hi KJ,
We should honour the messengers who work for God.
But our God is the Father, the God of Israel
You are still being evasive Nick. In Numbers 20:16 Moses includes himself in the company of those the Messenger saved from Egypt. So how could Moses have been Israel's savior when he himself was saved with the people by another?It is a fair question sir!
KJ
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