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T8….You seem to be unable to see that JESUS HAD TO BE “EXACTLY” as we are to even qualify to be God’s sacrifice for mankinds sins. You have moved Jesus away from human idenity, but scripture say “by man” sin entered this world and by “man”, (Jesus “the” christ), it was atoned for. Jesus is said to be a second Adam right? So why was he be compaired to Adam, if he were not the same as he was?
THE law only has one perversion for redemption that i know of, it can only be done by a KINDSMEN REDEEMER, AND IT must be offered before a Judge, and JESUS was that “kindsmen” redemmer, and he offered it BEFORE the JUDGE OF ALL THE EARTH THE ALMIGHTY GOD. A MAN FOR MANKIND, WHICH GOD ACCEPTED FOR THE SIN OF WHOLE THE WORLD. Your way of understand JESUS as born a CHRISTO’S, and GIVING HIM all kinds of prexistence status, complete destories his humanity, and not only his human work but the work of Go the Father in humanity, it is much like the Gnostic’s who said Jesus was a GOD and was only “disguised” as to real human being, another words, he was pulling the wool over our eyes so to speak.
T8..YOU FAIL TO SEE it was all about humanity from start to finish, JESUS IS “EXACTLY” WHAT GOD THE FATHER HAS IN MIND FOR EACH ONE OF US, and the “man” Jesus is the first and only one so far to have achieved that human goal. You view of seening Jesus as different actually breaks faith in God and his great work in humanity as shown by what he did in THE MAN JESUS, ” by his anointing spirit in human flesh, “that God may be IN “ALL” and THROUGH ALL”.
T8, HAVEN’T YOU EVER WONDERED HOW GOD THE FATHER CAME TO BE “IN” THE MAN JESUS, was it not by putting himself “IN” HIM, through the “ANOINTING SPIRIT” OR CHRISTO’S, or haven’t you ever read where JOHN said “FOR HIS “SEED” abides in us.” that “SEED” is the “anointing spirit” given us by GOD the FATHER by which he has begotten us also, just like it did Jesus. We are not so much as an ounce different then our brother Jesus who is call the christ, we are heirs and joint heirs with him, and “all” things will be under our feet exactly as it is for Our brother Jesus.
We preach an exact human idenity with Jesus, you preach a JESUS who actually is not nothing like we are, so you drive a wedge between him and us, between God the Fathers work in him and us, even if you don’t realize it.
T8, that is exactly what Satan wants, A JESUS WHO IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN WE ARE, so we can’t honestly believe we can atain to the “measure and “full” stature of CHRIST JESUS.
peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Gene, it is really simple. I believe the Jesus of the Bible. Not the Muslim Jesus or your version. The one in the Bible was born the messiah and the lord. He was declared King of the Jews and the savior. Wise men came to honor the messiah.
He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, and came in the flesh. Being found as a man, he was humble and always obeyed God. He then died for our sins, but God raised him from the dead. He was taken up into the glory he had with the Father before the cosmos.
That is the Jesus I believe in. He was declared the messiah and the son of God at Bethlehem. He was born holy because his Father was God and God is holy.
Amen!
You are free to believe in any Jesus you want. You have a will that allows you that choice. But I suggest that we should believe in the one spoken of in scripture.
t8,
No I am not. Kerwin there is simplicity in Christ. There is hot and cold. There is truth and error. Light and darkness. Good and evil. God and Satan.
A lot of words not much meaning as I am not sure how they even addressed what I wrote. Are you saying that Apostles were wrong and Jesus and he did not speak in obscure figures of speech?
My point is that obscure figures of speech are common in Scripture which is why Peter stated that like Scripture in general some of Paul’s writings are hard to understand.
The reason is this is that the truth is hidden from those whose mindset is natural and revealed to those whose mindset is Spiritual.
The angel spoke the way he does because he had foresight of what Jesus would do, even though Jesus had not done it yet. You know this because you also know that Jesus became the savior of the whole world by sacrificing himself that they may be saved. Are you watching yourself to make sure your life is in tune with the truth?
A time will come when people will not listen to accurate teachings. Instead, they will follow their own desires and surround themselves with teachers who tell them what they want to hear.
False teachers draw you away from scripture and get you to follow their reasoning.
God said: ”but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die“.
Satan said: ”The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! “For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil”…
Then:
An angel of God said: ”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”.
Nick said: ”Of course Jesus was made both Lord and Christ so was not conceived or born as such”.
Gene said: “So if a person says JESUS WAS “BORN” A CHRIST THEN HE IS DENYING THAT THE “christo’s” came in the “FLESH”, CONSEQUENTLY HE OR SHE IS, ANTICHRISTO’S”.
Kerwin said: ”Jesus wasn’t the Savior until after he died and was resurrected”.
Notice the subtle answers the serpent gave Eve.Now notice your subtle answers.
God’s words were clear as the angels words are clear about Jesus the Christ being born in Bethlehem. The subtle reasoning you guys are giving us here does not match the inspired words spoken by the angel of God. Therefore as children, please ask yourself who your Father is if you oppose the inspired words of God regarding who Jesus was at his birth. I do not condemn you at all. But the scriptures correct you and God is the judge.
The opposite of “You will certainly die” is “You will not die”.
The opposite of “today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord” is “Jesus was made both Lord and Christ so was not conceived or born as such”.
Remember this. Satan can always say he was right because Eve didn’t die when she ate the fruit. She was still alive. But God’s word is the final word. She got old and died. Listening to Satan may have its temporary appeal, but the wise look to eternity.
t8.
You confuse subtle with seeking understanding and still do address what I say. You falsely claim that Jesus was already our Savior even as you know that those that believe are saved by his action of sacrificing himself. It is your answer that is deceptive no mine as you play a lawyers game of interpreting words to what your itching ears want to hear.
My job is to warn you that by taking the stance you do on these passages you reveal unbelief in both them and others because Scripture is not broken. When it is written that Jesus saves us by his choice to die on then I believe it and when the angel calls Jesus the predestined Savior then I also believe that. My beliefs are not broken but you claim that Jesus had saved us by the time he was born. That is not written.
t8,
God’s words are a controversy to this day as Adam and Eve did not die that very day. His words have a spiritual meaning and Satan used the natural meaning. It is a poor verse to use in order to support your false interpretation of God’s words because you have accepted the same lie as Eve did. She did not look deeper either by seeking understanding. She should have went to God instead of trusting in her own understanding.
Did the angel of God speak the truth and message of God about Jesus?
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”.
Yes or no. Please answer with Yes or no.
t8,
It is not the angel of God’s understanding I am doubting it is yours. You are contradicting the fact Jesus gave his life on the cross in order to save all those that will be saved. You are denying that fact by claiming that Jesus was our Savior before then.
The angel does not contradict Scripture and so he is obviously declaring Jesus as the predestined Savior.
You presented an example to reveal that you are deceived in the same way Eve was deceived. God told Adam that he, and by extension Eve, would die the very day they ate the fruit. Satan interpreted those words simply and stated the truth when he stated that will not die this very day. Eve did not die that day because God’s words did not have a simple meaning. They are so complex that there meaning is debated to this day.
You desire to simplify the words of the angel of God and Satan is exploiting that desire to blind you just as he did with Eve. Just as after-sight gives us the ability God was not speaking simply when he spoke to Adam the cost of eating the fruit foresight reveals he is not speaking simply about Jesus being the Savior.
Jesus cannot be the actual Savior until he has done the work of saving and he did not do that until he died on the cross. Scripture is clear that he was preordained to be the Savior of the world. The angels did not have to insert the word predestined for it to be clear us to know that he was speaking predestination because it is known when Jesus actually became the savior.
A simple yes or no to your question reveals nothing.
Nick,
Jesus could not have adhered to the Law without walking according to the Spirit because that would take the works of the flesh, aka human effort.
It is only possible to do the works of God by walking according to the Spirit or if God does not allow one the freedom to sin.
It is possible he did the later with Adam and Even in the garden but the same is not true with Jesus as he was tempted even as we were but without sin.
Kerwin.
Did the angel of God speak the truth and message of God about Jesus?
”for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord”.
let your statement be, ‘Yes, yes ‘ or ‘No, no’; anything beyond these is of evil…
Yes / No
t8,
If you read what I wrote what I wrote then you would know that I affirmed he speaks the truth but that you misinterpret his words.
Your question is flawed in that there is no debate that he said those words but the controversy is over what his words mean. I find your interpretation false because it contradict the fact that Jesus saves us by his choice to die on the cross.
Do you want me to answer your question with the question about whether you believe Jesus saves us by his choice to shed his blood on the cross?
Instead I choose to believe you know that and that your teachings are broken. They can be healed if you humble yourself to God an believe that Jesus was the predestined Savior who became the actual Savior by choosing to shed his blood for the world. It is really not that hard to understand.
You can’t say yes or no. I wonder why? What are you hiding?
I will tell you what you are hiding. The answer to you is no. You believe that the angel was technically incorrect.
I rest my case.
If it is not no, then say yes. Otherwise it is no and you know it.
You just know that saying ‘no’ outright is wrong. Yet that is your answer and you are sticking to it because that is what you believe and teach in this matter.
t8,
Open you ears to understanding because I answered your trick question in both of my posts.
I doubt you are aware that Satan was using you to ask that question because if I said yes then you would assume I was agreeing with your interpretation and if I said no you would assume I was disagreeing with the angels words. Neither of those assumption are true.
The truth is I am disagreeing with your interpretation of the angel’s words because it disagrees with Scripture.
At the time the angel spoke Jesus was the predestined Savior; just as it is written:
2 Timothy 1:9New English Translation (NET Bible)
9 He is the one who saved us and called us with a holy calling, not based on our works but on his own purpose and grace, granted to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
Hi Kerwin, I have a question for you…
Do you believe “the spirit of Christ” came “from eternity to Bethlehem”
or instead took the by-pass ‘from eternity to Jordan’?
(please do not dodge this question)_______________
God bless
Ed JEd,
I strive not to dodge a fair question but you are asking the wrong person the question as I do not agree with Nick.
I believe that Jesus was conceived in Mary miraculously, which is to say by the Holy Spirit.
I believe that that Jesus received the Holy Spirit, as in spirit being born of Spirit, before he was was first tempted.The Spirit of Christ is just another name for the Spirit of God and like God, his Spirit is eternal.
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