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So when you said:
Of course Jesus was made both Lord and Christ so was not conceived or born as such.
You were wrong?
T8….A royal baby may be born a king, but he is not the actual king untill he becomes one, now is he? The same applied to JESUS the CHRISTO’S. Though he was born to be the Messiah, because that was his destiny, he really was not that untill he was anoint as such. People who are antichrists, are not people who are anty Jesus, but those against the “anointing” process of a flesh born human being, that is what qualifies him as a “CHRISTO’S” OR MESSIAH, ask any Jew and they will tell you a MASSIAH (ANOUNTED ONE) is a flesh born human being, WHO AFTER HIS ANOUNTING BECAME a MESSIAH, not before he was anointed. SO just as Moses was “anointed” by the spirit od GOD so was the “flesh man” Jesus, to deny the fact Jesus was anointed, is denying THE CHRISTO’S OR anointing process, not the man Jesus, but the anointing process of the flesh man JESUS. That is what a ANTICHRIST IS, it is one who is denying the anointing process comming into the flesh.
MANY get confused thinking that the word ‘antichrist” is saying anti-Jesus, the APOSTLE JOHN was not saying that, but was saying they, the GNOSTIC’S were by denying Jesus’ flesh berth, were infact by that denying he was a flesh “MAN” who became ANOINTED BY God, making them (the Gnostic’s) antichrists. imo
peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Ha ha. The angel’s message I can grasp and I take it that God told him to say this and by extension of that, it has to agree with the Spirit Nick.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
You know it and I know it that you and Gene do not believe this true message. It is the word(s) ‘today’ or ‘this day’ as well as ‘he is the messiah’ that you have a problem with right? Perhaps you can correct the angel publicly right here in this discussion. Go for it. This will be interesting.
But I can tell you both where you err. It is your doctrine of Jesus origin that has made you deny this declaration.
By saying I cannot hear the Spirit Nick and obviously I am the one defending the angel’s message as stated, can only mean you must be confused.
Hi t8,
Wisdom is justified of her children.
If you cannot hear the Spirit why do you search the scriptures?
T8…..So tell us when was JESUS the lord, was that aso at berth also even before he could even talk or reason?, or did he have to grow and mature to become a lord? WE are not saying this was not Jesus’ destiny , like when the prophets prophesied about him, it did not happen till it actually happened, Jesus as a human being had to recieve the process of being a human anointed being, or A CHRISTO’S is an Anointed human, just as all human rulers and true Saint’s of God have to be anointed before they can atain. Jesus was no different a time for his anointing had to happen when he would recieve the SPIRIT OF GOD “into” him.
WHY can’t you understand this T8?
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
If you cannot hear the Spirit why do you search the scriptures?
So believing that angel’s message and defending it means I lack the spirit according to Nick.
That is a big call for two reasons.
- You infer I have not the Spirit.
- The angel has to be wrong because believing the message leads to these accusations of yours.
Or perhaps you are wrong rather than myself and that angel of God? Did that cross your mind?
After all. You were right 10 years ago when you held a different view about Jesus. And now you are right again even though your views have changed.
But of course you have always been right. Perhaps a miracle Nick?
T8…..So tell us when was JESUS the lord, was that aso at berth also even before he could even talk or reason?,
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
The angels message is foolishness to you Gene because you hold that Jesus the person had no other existence before being born this baby. Thus the difficulty is with your doctrine of the Ordinary Jesus.
But if you believed that he existed in the form of God as it is written, emptied himself, came in the flesh, died for the sins of humanity, was risen from the dead, and is now with God in the glory he had with him before the cosmos, then this would not be difficult.
It is your doctrine and Nick’s that makes this angels message too hard for you to bear. It is why you both oppose me for defending the angels message.
I am with the angel on this one. I don’t think you guys have a chance at winning with your view. Mostly because you cannot change reality no matter how hard you try to convince yourself. And also because the angel spoke the truth. It is not recorded in scripture that the angel erred.
Wisdom is justified of her children.
Yes I would say that it is wise to believe the angel’s testimony of Jesus. But you do not believe.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
Yes evidence beyond opinion is required as Kerwin will appreciate.
The messiah was born in Bethlehem.
You conveniently missed out the words “this day” or “today” didn’t you?
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
Does this scripture make you wriggle in agony? Why appose it then?
@t8,
You are implying Scripture is broken as Jesus claims he was not made Lord until after his resurrection from the dead. I have already revealed that God declares things before they occur as if they were by pointing out that 1) Scripture states believers were in Christ before the world began and 2) Jeremiah was known by God before he was in his mother’s womb and appointed to be the prophet of the nation before he was born.
You still need to resolve that issue so that your teaching does not break Scripture.
kerwin, the problem you guys have is not me, it is that angel of God because that angel is the one who delcared:.
Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.
I am not into ignoring scripture nor do I want to believe something that contradicts it.
I believe that message of the angel, so instead of criticizing me, criticize that angel and the message he delivered. I merely quote the angel so don’t shoot the messenger as the saying goes.
Did you not think the messiah was born?
Lol yes, he was born the messiah that day in a manger. Did you not think that he was born the messiah that day?
Hi t8,
In defence of your dogma you ignore angelic prophecy and read everything as now.
You should study the prophetic word till the morning star rises in your heart.
t8,
It is not the words of the angels that Jesus disagrees with but rather your interpretation of them. Either Jesus lied and he was he was not appointed when he claimed or your interpretation is mistaken. I am convinced Jesus did not lie and neither did the angel.
Claiming I am having a problem with the angel’s words does not heal the break from Scripture you have introduced by your choice of interpretation.
I see the angels words as calling things that are not as if they were. (Romans 4:17)
In doing it my understanding does not break from Scripture.
t8,
It is not the words of the angels that Jesus disagrees with but rather your interpretation of them. Either Jesus lied and he was he was not appointed when he claimed or your interpretation is mistaken. I am convinced Jesus did not lie and neither did the angel.
Hi, Kerwin,
It looks like he was at least “appointed” by this time…
”Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour:
but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then there came
a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.” (John 12:27-28)
But this verse suggests he was appointed even before the foundation of the Earth…
”the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)____________
God bless
Ed Jkerwin….you have it right brother. JESUS WAS INDEED BORN for the very purpose of becomming both lord and Messiah, but none of that happened at his berth, but that was his assigned destiny afforded him by GOD the Father, from the foundations of the world. when he was anointed he became the MESSIAH, and when he was later exaulted by the Father, he became our lord.
T8……Pushes his version of this because he still believes JESUS prexisted his berth on this earth as a sentinal being. My hope is that he will come to see it differently some day.
peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Ed,
”the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8)
God planned for Jesus to be slain from the foundation of the world. God’s plan cannot be thwarted so Scripture refers to it as done even though it is not. Romans 4:17 speaks of this idea.
God did plan on Jesus being anointed Lord of all things in heaven and on earth before the world began and though it has not occurred the angel. having faith in God’s word, spoke of it as if it had.
The wording of Matthew 28:18 differs from my memory of it as it literally states “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” and not God made him Lord. Philippians 2:8-9 may be better evidence to support my understanding.
One can argue he was a Prince though not yet King based on Hebrews 1:6. Since princes also bear the title lord the angels words may be referring to that and not the fact he would become King after he sacrificed himself. I doubt it as the situation implies he is speaking of his later accomplishments.
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