Was jesus always superior

[JustAskin]

Shimmer,

Seems like you got two suitors for your spiritual hand…

'The choice', as they say, 'is yours'!

[JustAskin]

To anyone and everyone,

Please can you look back through the last few posts between Mikeboll64 and JustAskin and see where Mikeboll demands a response from JustAskin, and JustAskin states that he will respond before midnight UK time.

Then, when JustAskin responds, Mikeboll say, 'I wasn't going to respond to you long post'.

Is this not is called 'Contrarie'?

Mike demands a response belueving he has an upper hand but then flakes out when he gets one….hmm, seems he was so sure of himself he wasn't expecting anything…if he were a boxer he wouldn't last a round.

[JustAskin]

Mike,

I have to use the word 'Wow' to your response to me concerning 'Principlalities'.

So you are saying that Jesus created:
Satan as a Principlality,
Satan as a Power,
The Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece as Rulers… and,
Satan and the host of Angels as …the Host of heaven.

Interesting take…seems like it was a 'set up' from the start? That they didn't 'become' these things due to sin.
You are saying, that Jesus CREATED them, are you not?

I don't think Scriptures would agree with you.

Also, you keep going on and on about Jesus being 'the most beloved'.

Mike, are you completely devoid of understanding?

How can 'the ONLY son of God' be said to be 'the MOST beloved of God'?

Mike, there has to be some others for him to be compared to.
You cannot love someone or something 'more/the most' if there is ONLY ONE of such.

You rightly ask the question, 'Why did God love Jesus more than the others' because you cannot reconcile it.

Indeed, it cannot be reconciled if there is only ONE.

“My son is my most beloved son”…
“My blue sports car is the most beloved of the only car I have”

Mike…please…

And as for your quip about me turning to Gene style thoughts, not a hope… You have many times crept into dangerous territory with your desparate posts while trying to wriggle out of a difficult position you put yourself into. This has been mentioned before, and i merely mention it again.

I wrote that the deeds of 'Jesus' are not mentioned openly in the Old Testsment …exactly so he would not be glorified by the Hebrews and others and hence become a focus for worship…if you open up Jesus' file and expose his works, are you then not opening up deeds to lead to acts of worship of Jesus 'as our creator', when, no where in Scriptures does it actually say so…and you accuse me of making things up…?

Mike, do you also see how all the merry points you outlined are fragmenting…if they were cosher, then you would be able to maintain them and follow them through…but it is clear that you cannot…
There is no cohesion in your posts. You are just lurching from one point to another and back again…reminisent of one who thrashes.

You are also a copy cat. You 'pinch' other posters M.O. I told you this before…do you not have your own writing style or are you just a Chameleon?
Seems like you are a little immature and not quite found your style yet.

[mikeboll64]

Hi JA,

You had said:

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You posted a 'Mikeboll64' style, 'point by point' post which, history in this forum, has shown to fall into chaos, more often never getting past point 1,

To which I replied:

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I couldn't agree more.  I hate the long drawn out posts, but you were chirping to Shimmer about your points going unanswered, so I hit them all at once.

Then you said:

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Mike, You already gone off the “One point”… I said I would answer your multilist thing by tonight…but you already posting others things…

To which I replied:

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No, that's okay.  I only answered all your points because you implied that I couldn't in your post to Shimmer.  Don't bother making a big speech that encompasses all those points, for I will ONLY deal with this “principality” one for now…….until we have finished it.  Then, and ONLY THEN, will I address each and every one of your other misunderstandings…….ONE AT A TIME.  Like why Jesus was the most beloved, or why things ONLY came through him.  But for now, let's stick to the “principality” thing, okay?

And now you act surprised, insult me, and try to include others in searching out my “error” by saying:

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To anyone and everyone, Please can you look back through the last few posts between Mikeboll64 and JustAskin and see where Mikeboll demands a response from JustAskin, and JustAskin states that he will respond before midnight UK time. Then, when JustAskin responds, Mikeboll say, 'I wasn't going to respond to you long post'.

Maybe you don't actually read my posts, huh?

mike

[mikeboll64]

JA:

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So you are saying that Jesus created: Satan as a Principlality, Satan as a Power, The Prince of Persia and the Prince of Greece as Rulers… and, Satan and the host of Angels as …the Host of heaven.

Atta boy JA.  Now we are getting somewhere finally!  

First, like I've REPEATEDLY said, I don't claim that JESUS MADE ANYTHING AT ALL.  I claim what the scriptures teach, and that is that ALL THINGS came to be THROUGH him, and that nothing that exists came to exist APART FROM HIM.

Now, would it help you to understand if it was worded differently?  What if Paul had said, “Any power or principality that has ever existed was ORIGINALLY created through Jesus”?

JA:

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Interesting take…seems like it was a 'set up' from the start? That they didn't 'become' these things due to sin. You are saying, that Jesus CREATED them, are you not?

Again, Jesus did not CREATE anything according to scripture.  God retains all credit for the creation throughout scripture.  And what Col 1:16, and other scriptures are saying is that Satan and the “others” were all created through Jesus.  AFTER that, some of them became principalities, rulers, powers, etc.  But each one of those pricipalities, rulers, powers, etc. were ORIGINALLY created through God's only begotten Son, Jesus.

JA:

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I don't think Scriptures would agree with you.

What are you talking about………it IS scripture.  

JA:

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How can 'the ONLY son of God' be said to be 'the MOST beloved of God'?

Jesus WAS the ONLY Son of God for a while.  Then God made other sons for Himself THROUGH that first Son.  That first Son was the ONLY thing God created DIRECTLY.  All [OTHER] things were made THROUGH him.  So Jesus is no longer the ONLY Son of God, but he remains the ONLY BEGOTTEN Son of God, and therefore can rightly still be distinguished from all the other sons of God by being called “THE Son of God”.

JA, the rest of your post needs to be directed at yourself.  The insults are not only unnecessary, but they really do say more about you than they do about me.  I am not “struggling” or “thrashing” or anything else.  I'm simply explaining my understanding of the scriptures to you.  But will you comprehend it?  Time will tell.  

Your original take was that the angels were NOT created through Jesus.  Now that we've seen ample evidence that “principalities” and “powers” included the angels, do you agree that they are some of the “all things INVISIBLE” that came into existence through Jesus?

peace and love,
mike

[JustAskin]

Mike,

It is getting increasingly clear why you can never finish a thread, never come to a conclusion on any matter.

You refuse to acknowledge the real truth in any posts, but seek out only the parts you think you can dispute with. This is what many have complained about you in this forum.

You create impossible scenarios in your head, in isolation, one theme from another. Neither necessarily being in accord with the other.

So, you think the Angels did nothing while Jesus did all the work by himself….oh, no, you didn't say that, did you…you said, 'Scriptures doesn't say'….hmm, a climb down, seems like to me.. A clear attempt to dismiss that which MUST have occured because it would lead to you having to answer more 'revealing' questions.

Why did Lucifer feel that he deserved worship from mankind if he was not instrumental in the creation?
Can one take, demand, credit and glory for something one just stands by watching being accomplished.

Mike, the answer is clear: No!

You ask impossibly obvious questions, then refuse to accept the impossibly simple answers.

Out of all the things written, you pick 'Principalities' and stain at declaring what such a thing is, claiming that it is 'the Angels'…
I build a town…so that must mean i build the people in it as well because a town includes people.
I built a fleet of ships…the crew also?

Your example of 'betterer' is ok, but it is a bit strained, a huge mouthful to say such a little thing.

Going back…Arche Angel Michael and His Angels…so Michael is a Chief Prince of the Angelic Army hosts of God. Revelations says that it will be Michael who leads the fight against Satan, the great dragon.

How is Satan such a powerful Angel, and Michael, his equal, and better.

And Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God? Two,… three, very powerful forces…and where is Jesus? Right in AMONG them, in front and in the midst of them…not apart…but among them.

Among them until he is picked out as being MORE Righteous.

Does being 'More Righteous' mean 'More Superior'?
Say 'yes', and close the discussion.
Say, 'No', and continue with reason.

Jesus was found to be more righteous than they, therefore God, his God, loved him more than the others, just as God said, 'I have found my David [from among mankind]'. Could He not equally, fractally have said, 'I have found my beloved Spirit from among these my Princes, this one, who says, ''here i am'', when i called him, this one whom has been the most righteous of my princes, he shall inherit all.
Lucifer, tall, handsome, bejewelled, arrayed in slendour, his outerness is a glory to behold, but his heart is dark, his thoughts are of the glorification of himself…he will not do. The humble one, the least of the princes, he has shown the heart, the right 'spirit', he i shall exalt above his brethren, he shall be the claimant of all that is created, both seen and unseen, be the inheritor, and be the one through whom the sin of mankind will be thwarted'

Mike, for what purpose are all the fractal Scriptures given to us? For amusement, for distraction, or 'for edification'?
Devise a method that will maintain Scriptural truth through the ages and through the attempts of man to corrupt the word of God?
How, by repeating themes…curruption in one theme is overcome by truth in the others…hey, 'error correction'…
Man uses 'EC' in his data storage systems to guard against corrupt data…are we wiser than God?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 07 2010,07:30)

You are crossing into Gene Balthrop territory here JA.  To assume that anything I've said implies that “Jesus is God” is ridiculous and what is called “a slant”.  And you use this “slant” for the same reason Gene uses the “pre-existers are trinitarians” slant -to sway people into believing that the scriptural things I say add up to Jesus being God.  This tactic is below you, and anyone with half a brain is able to see right through it anyway.  You only damage your own credibility by using it.

Mike………Crossing over to Gene Balthrop territory is not Just saying Jesus is a GOD, as Trinitarians do , it is anything that separates Jesus from our own human Identity even if it is a demigod or super Angel, that was morphed into a human being. You or JA or anyone else has produced any scripture that shows any (INCARNATE) OR (MORPHING) Process ever taking place, Not you or JA or any one else has.

You would would think before both of you started off in your delusions to talk about Jesus superiority you would at least think you would get that fact established first, to think that Jesus Superiority preexisted is a assumed position foolish at best. Jesus was not superior to anyone at his berth (EXCEPT) in the PLAN and WILL of GOD (FOR HUMANITY).

Here is something to chew on, even though i have posted it before several times. We will go through it all again.

Heb 2:5…> For unto the ANGLES has he (NOT) put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. (Now notice it say the world to come is (NOT) Subject TO ANGLES. Question then How is Jesus superior them If he was an angel of any kind and if he were then He has not part of the world to come because it is not subject to Angels. That alone blowes you and JA's super Morphed Angel thing apart. By it self.

Now moving on….Heb 2:6…..> But on in a certain place testified, saying , (NOW PLEASE TAKE NOTICE) What is (MAN), that thou are mindful of him? or the son of man, that you visits him? verse 7…> You made him a little lower than the Angels: you crowned him with GLORY and HONOR, and did set (HIM) (man) over the works of your hand……..> Notice it says (MAN) Not some Morphed (ANGELS HANDS), but MANS HANDS, Also notice whose (WORKS) they WERE> GODS WORKS Not some others beings WORKS but (HIS WORKS).

continuing verse 8….> “Thou has put (ALL THINGS) in subjection under his feet. For in that he put (ALL) in subjection under Him (man) He left nothing that is not under him (man). …..> does anyone see any Morphed or reincarnated ANGEL Mentioned Here at all, I see ONLY MAN Mentioned Here.

continuing verse 9….> NOW PLEASE NOTICE WHAT IS SAID HERE.. “But we see Jesus, who was (MADE) a little lower than the angels “> EXACTLY same way all men were (MADE) a little lower than that ANGELS . There is absolute (NO) Difference between Jesus and Us ALL. Man was made Lower than the angles so was Jesus.<.."for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor, that by the GRACE of GOD should taste death for every man.

Verse 10… For it became him (GOD), for whom are all things , and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, (HOW) by (MAKING) the Captain (Jesus) of their Salvation PERFECT through Suffering.

Now Notice verse 11, For (BOTH) He (Jesus) that sanctifies (AND) they (US) who are sanctified are ALL OF ONE”. And that is (GOD).

Now where in all this is there any mention, of a separation of Jesus Identity and OUR as Being a HUMAN Being. Jesus gained Superiority AS A FLESH BEING, Not as some PAST ANGEL, Because no superiority over Man was given to any angel and God was Not dealing with Angels but with Mankind. The worlds to come are (NOT) subject to Angels but to Man and Jesus was 100% MAN from his berth and even now is 100% MAN. IMO

peace and love to you and your…………….gene

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 08 2010,06:49)

Terra, You say, 'Became Superior'. So who was 'Superior' before Jesus 'Became Superior'? Bro, i'm not understanding you fully. Also, who and where does it say that Jesus was the 'First Son of God'? Where it says he was 'Son of God' that was when he was Flesh and Blood', and further more, ADAM, was 'First Son of God' in the flesh. What does Scriptures say…again, how many times must it be written: The first man [Son of God]  was from the dust, the second [Son of God] was the spirit from heaven. And, what does Hebrews 5:5 say? When was it that God made him High Priest and said to him, 'You are My Son….Today I have begotten you'? What did God mean by 'You are my Son'? Was this not a declaration? And then God went in to Qualify the declaration, 'Today'…'after you have overcome all things'..'Today, I have become your Father'. Terra, align that with Scriptures concerning the others of mankind also becoming 'Sons of God'. How are they to achieve that? Terra, it is not to be in the Flesh, but in the Spirit. When they have achieved, according to God's will andovercome, then they, too, will put off the flesh and put on the Spirit and become, Sons of God. Terra, please, first understand what is meant by the term, 'Son of God' in context, then it will become clear to you. John writes 'the only begotten Son of God' not as a past sending, but 'future past'…ok, i made that term up, but see how he says, 'the man who is in heaven'…tell me, was Jesus a 'man in heaven' before he came? No. John is speaking of Jesus 'AS HE IS NOW', both, the 'as Man' and 'as Begotten'. And by this discernment the anomalie is cleared up… Jesus was never called 'Only Begotten Son' before he came as man in the flesh. The book of John is a strange book and contains writings not seen in any other book. I read it over and over long ago, and picked it out from all the other books as my favourite …at first…but then i started noticing strange features. The writing is as one writing from the future, knowing what has already occured but placing the events in the present. Hence, Jesus calling himself by his own name while saying that God sent him, '…and Jesus Christ whom you sent'…and, 'the man who is in heaven', and, 'After he was raised, the Disciples remembered what he had said' Can you see then, that when John calls him 'Begotten' it was because he wrote his book 'After' Jesus was raised from the dead and had ascended into heaven. The others wrote their books as if a 'present day narrative'. Please look again at John and bare these things in mind as you read.

JA

just to clear up things;;what i was saying is that Christ was the first of all creation ,this” first “position is his superior position,and this is like the first born from God is it NOT?

now to me,the fact that Christ was begotten by God,the voice John the Baptist heard ,is in the beginning of Christ ministry shows that he was begotten before anything begone,

other wise he would have begotten him at is crucifiction ,at the end of his work ,(my understanding)

to me the fact that God begot Christ was to show men ,”yes this is the one I God have send, this one has I God have promised, and yes this one is my son”

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete

2Jn 1:2 because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

2Jn 1:3 Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love.

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

in the above verse John shows that it is trough Christ that all thing are still done;God to Christ to angel to john.

still as it was in the beginning.of creation

so to me I believe Christ was always the only son of God the father because 1)he was Gods first creation,2)all others have been create trough him,3)and so always was in a superior position from the beginning.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

JA:

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So, you think the Angels did nothing while Jesus did all the work by himself….oh, no, you didn't say that, did you…you said, 'Scriptures doesn't say'….hmm, a climb down, seems like to me.. A clear attempt to dismiss that which MUST have occured because it would lead to you having to answer more 'revealing' questions.

Do you hear yourself?  I state that scriptures don't mention what the angels were doing while the earth was created.  And you slam this statement by asserting I'm ignoring what “MUST” have happened.  What “MUST” have happened according to who JA?  YOU?  Who are YOU to claim certain things “MUST” have happened certain ways with no scriptual support?

JA:

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Why did Lucifer feel that he deserved worship from mankind if he was not instrumental in the creation?

God GAVE Satan the world as his own principality.  That is why Satan was able to offer Jesus all the kingdoms of the world in exchange for an act of worship toward him.  He couldn't have offered to Jesus what wasn't his to give.  And it's also why Paul calls Satan “the god of this world”.  The earth was given to Satan years ago, and apparently he thought he also deserved the right to be “God” to it's inhabitants.  

Did Prince Charles have to have a part in creating the European continent in order to rule over part of it?  Could he, like Satan, think to himself, “I know God created it, but I want the people here to worship ME as God”?  Yes, he could.

You see JA, these are only things of your own mind.  None of it is scriptural.  To think that Satan could only ask for mankind's worship IF he had a hand in creating the earth is absurd.

JA:

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Out of all the things written, you pick 'Principalities' and stain at declaring what such a thing is, claiming that it is 'the Angels'… I build a town…so that must mean i build the people in it as well because a town includes people. I built a fleet of ships…the crew also?

Ah, but that's where you are cloudy on “principality”.  It not only refers to the land that is ruled, but also to the “principal” who rules it.  It refers to the “sovereign” himself and to the “power” by which he rules.  Did you forget the last theological definition?

supramundane powers often in conflict with god. Ephes. 6:12.

How can an inanimate piece of land be a “power in conflict with God”?

JA:

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Your example of 'betterer' is ok, but it is a bit strained, a huge mouthful to say such a little thing.

That is just the way Paul decided to say, “Although Jesus was already better, he is now even 'MORE BETTER' than the angels”.  How would you have worded it to relate that thought?

JA:

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How is Satan such a powerful Angel, and Michael, his equal, and better.

I'm not sure scripture says Satan and Michael are “equals”, but if it does, that would sure shoot the JW's assumption that Jesus IS Michael right in the foot, wouldn't it?

JA:

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And Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God? Two,… three, very powerful forces…and where is Jesus? Right in AMONG them, in front and in the midst of them…not apart…but among them.

I've already answered this.  Scripture never implies that Jesus is not “apart” from the angels.  The first time John sees him he is as a slaughtered Lamb and appears in the midst of the throne.  Scripture doesn't say from where he appeared, and for you to assume more than what is written again begs the question:  Who are YOU?

JA:

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Does being 'More Righteous' mean 'More Superior'? Say 'yes', and close the discussion.

YES, but our debate is about whether Jesus always was superior.  We both know that he is now.

JA:

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Mike, for what purpose are all the fractal Scriptures given to us?

“Scriptural Fractals” is another one of your own brain's inventions JA.  Many themes are repeated throughout the Bible, but some events are one of a kind.  This is the third time in one post that you rearrange what is written in scripture to fit into what your own brain has conceived.  Can't you see what you're doing?  

Let's finish the “principality” thing.  If you agree that angels are the “invisible principalities or powers” mentioned in Col 1:16, then the debate is over, right?

So………do you agree?  If not, why?  The words are all there in TWO different scriptures.  And you know that what Paul talks about in Eph are not inanimate objects, so why would he use those same words for inanimate objects in Col?

Please answer this bolded question directly……..without a whole bunch of other diversions.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 08 2010,02:23)

Rev 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, in the above verse John shows that it is trough Christ that all thing are still done;God to Christ to angel to john. still as it was in the beginning.of creation

Good point Pierre! We know that all things STILL come through Jesus, so why would we think it was ever any different? Especially with all the scriptures that say everything DID come through God's only begotten Son. And ONLY through him.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.

That is a good point to bring up to JA and David, who think Jesus is just an angel.  I don't.  I think he is God's only begotten Son through whom the angels were created…….just as the scriptures tell us.

Gene:

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“But we see Jesus, who was (MADE) a little lower than the angels “> EXACTLY same way all men were (MADE) a little lower than that ANGELS .

No Gene.  While mankind was made lower than the angels from their very beginning, Jesus emptied himself of the glory he had in God's presence before the world was created to be made in the likeness of sinful flesh.  Jesus had to partake in human nature in order to conquer death for us all.  It's all right there in the scriptures dude.

That being said, please avoid this thread, for it is for those of us who believe Jesus pre-existed.  Like JA mentioned before, you commenting here is like allowing Stu to pop into all of the believer's threads diverting the topic into a “God vs. No God” debate.

Please keep your non-preexistent views off this thread.

mike

[JustAskin]

Terra,
If Jesus was always the superior, how did he then 'become the superior'?

You say Jesus is the Only Son of God.
Are there other Sons of God? Does Scriptures say that God had other Sons?

Why do fractal Scriptures always show more than one Son?

Even Adam and Christ. The first Sinned and fell from Grace. The second maintained himself by that same grace.

All sentient creation of God are 'Sons of God'.

Mikeboll explicitly uses theterm 'THE Son of God' refusing to acknowledge the fact that Jesus was 'THE' only [true] Son of God in the flesh after Adam.

I show you why John used the term 'Only Begotten' and ask you to read the Book of John again with the view in mind…try it, you will see what you have not seen before because God reveals to each as he pleases and no matter how much each reads, until God decides, you will not perceive.

Please relate to me when it was that Jesus was 'Begotten'…thishas been running and running…yet the answer is there in Hebrews 5:5.
I notice that the preExistence 'Begotteners' refuse to even acknowledge the Sriptural verse.
Why, because in one single verse it declares the truth that was somehow missed throughout all those threads and posts over years and years.

In case you can't read it, it states that God spoke to Jesus thus, 'You are my Son, Today I have become your father', then God declares him as High Priest and the inheritor of ALL things, whether seen or unseen, of powers, authorities, principalities, and the heavenly hosts. For God raised him to the highest position, above all things and above all Angels and Mankind, and gave him a name above all names (Name = Power, for their is 'power' in a Godgiven name).

Terra, in the Old Testament, is there any mention of an 'Only Son'?
Or is there only mention of a 'Special one'?
How many times is there mention of 'The Angel of God'? Is this a reference to 'Jesus'? Or could it be any of a number of particular 'special Angels', one of the Principal 'Sons of God', the 'Princes', of whom 'Jesus' was the most righteous, and also, of whom, 'one had fallen'?

Terra, the OT does not say anything about 'Only Son', nor 'Begotten Son'…

Where are you getting your ideas from? Where are you reading these things?

And, also, you are confusing some Scriptures with others.

And, you are confusing some things that i am saying.

The thread topic is, 'Was Jesus ALWAYS superior'?

Clearly he was not when he was made in the fashion of man. Jesus 'Emptied' himself…how, if he WAS superior to all the other Angels, and he then emptied himself, could he then still be superior?…that would make a mockery of his great sacrifice if he 'didn't really relinquish his 'superiority''.

So, we can safely discount anything after he became man as part f the 'Always'.

So the question, is 'Was he always superior before he came as man'?

And certainly, he was the most beloved of 'the Sons of God'.

Terra, read that again and ask, 'How could you describe someone as 'more beloved', unless there were others who were 'less loved', and, they would have to be of the same kind and equal standing.

Can you truly say, I love Cat more than my Son?
Or, I love my Son more than my Cat?
Or, I love my Orange more than my Apple (they provide different nutrients of which both are necessary for a balanced diet)

And Terra, what exactly was Jesus then…was he Angel? You say, No, yes? Then WHAT was Jesus before he was man?

Terra please don't just answer with, 'Son of God'. What nature was Jesus?

Outline your thoughts, Terra. What nature is God, and Jesus, and the Angels?

[JustAskin]

Gene,

You seem not to be able to understand that those of Mankind are composed of two parts…a Spirit, and a body.

The Spirit of Jesus was put into the body of a child. This is not Morphing…
Every human being (Adam apart) is created in the womb from an egg from the female and 'the spirit', the active part, from the sperm, this is human reproduction.
But because there is sin in the 'father' element, the sperm, so to speak, Jesus was created by the seed of Mary and spirited from the Holy Spirit, just as the Scriptures state. This is why he knew his father from his very birth. Why he says God told him what he should say, instructed him, he says of himself, 'i can only do what I see my father doing', and ,'I can only say what he told me to say'.

This is not to encourage you to post back but merely to give you something to consider, as there are clear rift valley canyons of errors in your thinking.

[JustAskin]

Mike,
Jesus was not an Angel when those words were written concerning him.

What is wrong with you.

[JustAskin]

Mike,

You are impossible.

You responses are desparately out of sych with any kind of reality.

You make suppositions and opinions under and around that which you are asked about.

I don't get how you work nor what you hope to gain for twisted thinking.

Draw a timeline diagram with beginning of time on the extreme left, come as man in thr middle and raised from the dead mid right, established as king, far right.
Now lay out you scripture verses against the timeline…

When he was in heaven he was? What?
When he on earth he was? What?
When he was raised from the dead he was? What?
When he was taken up into heaven, he was? What?
Established as King, he is?what?

When was Jesus said to have become 'Son of God' as the spirit by God….the crucial text, 'You are my Son…' hint: Hebrews 5:5.
When did Jesus become High Priest?

Mike, also layout WHO is called 'Son of God' and when…and why?

Do you even understand what is meant by 'Son of God'…clearly not, else you would not get confused.
There are Three different context of Son of God but you refuse to accept one, and confuse the other two.

Who are the heavenly sons of God?
Who are the earthly sons of God and why?
And who are the 'Begotten' Son of God? And why?

Check the perspective, Mike, check the Context.

[terraricca]

AJ

Terra,
If Jesus was always the superior, how did he then 'become the superior'?

————————–
answer;he was already begotten before he start his ministry,and became superior because of his sacrifice of his live;

you say;Are there other Sons of God? Does Scriptures say that God had other Sons?

———————-
answer;we all are sons of God but only one begotten, only Christ can claim that he was made or comes to be by the fathe only,because he is the first of all creation.(anyone that God created with freewill is a son)

you say;Mikeboll explicitly uses theterm 'THE Son of God' refusing to acknowledge the fact that Jesus was 'THE' only [true] Son of God in the flesh after Adam.
answer;yes he was the son of God and yes he was the faithful one and he was also the only faithful after Adam,
(but what do you mean by true?)
you say;;
Terra, the OT does not say anything about 'Only Son', nor 'Begotten Son'…

Where are you getting your ideas from? Where are you reading these things?
———————–
answer;you have to wait until Christ is revealed to understand the mystery of Christ,NT

i have given you the scriptures rev,Jn,1Jn,

you say;
Who are the heavenly sons of God? they the angels
Who are the earthly sons of God and why? Adam wen he was not corrupt
And who are the 'Begotten' Son of God? And why?Christ his the only son begotten by God,because he the first of all creation;his true nature;i do not know some may be similar to his father,but it must have been different from the angels
because the angels were created trough him ,so it has to be different to allow this to happen.just like God is not a angel and is not like Christ.

Christ is all in all exept God ,but at the end of all things he also submit to God by turning all thing to his father and so all becomes all of God in God.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 08 2010,05:18)

answer;he was already begotten before he start his ministry,and became superior because of his sacrifice of his live;

Hi Pierre,

JA thinks there was no mention of Jesus being begotten in the OT, yet he ignores Psalm 2:7.

He thinks Jesus was awarded the “title” or “position” of only begotten Son of God when he was raised from the dead.  But Jesus said God sent His only begotten Son into the world.  John says God sent His only begotten Son into the world as a sacrifice for our sins.  

JA keeps spouting about “timelines”, but it seems it's he that doesn't follow one.  How in the world did God's only begotten Son die for our sins if he wasn't God's only begotten Son before he died?  It makes no sense.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 08 2010,04:04)

Mike, Jesus was not an Angel when those words were written concerning him. What is wrong with you.

The scripture says the world will NOT be subject to angels.  Is the world subject to Jesus?  Okay, then he must NOT be an angel.

But this is only a diversion, just like your last post to me.  Stop spouting “the world according to JA” and answer the one simple question I've been asking.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Do you think these “principalities and powers and rulers” mentioned in Eph 6:12 are inanimate objects?

It's only ONE question JA.  PLEASE ANSWER IT.

mike

[JustAskin]

Mikeboll64,

You are the most ridiculous person i have ever encountered in my whole life.

You make Stuart seem sane.

[shimmer]

Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 08 2010,01:54)

Shimmer, Seems like you got two suitors for your spiritual hand… 'The choice', as they say, 'is yours'!

JA, no. Im just reading here, you know.

[Author]

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