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I'm sorry JA, but you seem to have “lost it”. Your writings are barely understandable, and you dwell on the “unknown” things, as if they somehow override scriptures.
JA:
Quote And who else is ruling Angel? You struggled to name one…yes, i was remiss and let you have ONE….
What does this even mean? I didn't “struggle” with anything. You asked me to list just one “ruler in heaven” and I did. You were “remiss” to “let me have that one”?
JA:
Quote Who are the 'Wicked Angels' that were created through Jesus?
The same angels who were created by God were created through Jesus. That's what at least three scriptures say JA. I don't think they were “wicked” from the start, although Jesus does say that Satan was a liar and a manslayer “from the beginning” – whatever that may mean.JA:
Quote Asa matter of fact, two further questions:
I will happily and easily answer your questions JA. But don't you think it's time you actually address one of mine for a change? If you answer this following question DIRECTLY, then I will answer one of yours.You have somehow misunderstood what I've been teaching you. You now seem to have it in your mind that “arche” means “wicked ruler”, for you said, “Michael is an Arche Angel…what of it? So Michael is a wicked Angel that Jesus will destroy?” Arche does not have anything to do with “wicked” or “righteous” JA. It simply means “ruler”. So here's the question:
Knowing now that “arche” means “ruler” and that Michael is a “ruler-angel”, is it safe to say that he is one of the INVISIBLE RULERS IN HEAVEN who was created through Jesus?
If you can see your way clear to answer one of my questions, I will answer yours. You have repeatedly ignored any question I've asked of you in this whole discussion, and I'm tired of it. This is a two way street, brother.
peace and love,
mikeMike,
You have caught yourself in your own trap hence your evasion.
And 'Arche' does not mean 'Ruler'. What does Michael 'Rule' over.
He is the Chief Angel. Is 'Cheif' the same as 'Ruler'…no, Mike, no….
Chief just means 'the senior', 'the head', it doesn't mean Ruler.
You can spin words and definitions in a mixing bowl until they do appear to mean the same, but Michael the ArcheAngel is not a 'Ruler', he is the 'Chief' Angel…the Captain (…does 'Captain' mean 'Ruler'?) of the army hosts of God.
So, please try again.
Mike, for such bold claims you make, you sure are struggling to come up with any viable responses except…'i'm not going to answer you because i feel you are insulting me'?? Just answer the questions…get a backbone man!!! (Or can't you?)
Scriptures says that Jesus Christ will rule over,…give the orders…not just relay them and lead the troops…a king 'Rules' over a kingdom…what Kingdom is Michael ruling over? Isn't it the wicked Rulers that Jesus will destroy?
Where did these wicked Rulers come from? Jesus created them, according to you.
And isn't Satan the ….Ruler….of these wicked Angels…And, yes, Satan has a Kingdom….
Please help me out here, Mike, cos you ain't making much sense.
Scriptures says that Jesus will rule over 'the Angels', and 'the principalities', so if he will rule iver the ANGELS…and the Angels are 'Principalities', then why mention, Angels AND Principalities….
Mikeboll will sleep with the NeonTetras in the aquarium AND the little fishes in the aquarium…?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 21 2010,12:18) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 20 2010,05:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 19 2010,09:53) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 18 2010,15:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 18 2010,13:28) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 16 2010,16:21) Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 15 2010,05:30) To all, Check the 'Mike vs ja' debate. Mike asks a quesion but when he gets the answer that 'HE' doesn't like he rephrases it, or simply ignores the response, and continues to claim that he has not been answered.
Hi JustAskin,Yes, you are 100% correct; Mike does do that!
But I don't mind as long as he keeps wording his question differently.
That way you can keep giving him different answers he doesn't like.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
I challenge youEd, show me one time where you answered a question and I immediately asked it again. I'm not talking about asking the same question a month later. And I'm not talking about asking a related question that clarifies EXACTLY what I was really wanting to know the first time.
Show me where you answered, and in my response to your answer, I just asked the same question again.
mike
Hi Mike,The PROOF that I was indeed answering your question,
is evidenced by you repackaging it in different forms!
These are (in essence) the same question, repackaged
over and over, for what can be illustrated by Luke 11:54.(Mike) Laying wait for him(Ed J), and seeking to catch something
out of his(Ed J's) mouth, that they(Mike) might accuse him(Ed J). (Luke 11:54)
But you were unsuccessful, as you proclaimed here…Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 04 2010,14:44)
Ed, my patience with you is wearing thin.
Did you know that the core reason for ALL ANGER, is
a controlling aspect derived from unfulfilled expectations? (James 1:20 / Col.3:8)Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,14:52)
Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right? Which one of the two was the only begotten Son of God?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 22 2010,16:08)
Then Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, is who “became flesh” and dwelled among us, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2010,14:16)
Then it was Jesus, not the Holy Spirit, who “became flesh” and dwelled among us, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 25 2010,14:52)
Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,11:43)
I had asked: Okay, so the flesh and blood person of Jesus from Nazareth actually consisted of TWO flesh and blood people then, right? Which one of the two was the only begotten Son of God?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,13:09)
Jesus was already a flesh and blood person before the Jordan, right? So if the Holy Spirit/Word BECAME a flesh and blood person in the person of Jesus, wouldn't the human body of Jesus be holding TWO flesh and blood people inside it?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 26 2010,14:47)
What is your answer to my question, Ed? Is your answer, “NO, Jesus remained one flesh and blood person.” ?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2010,09:36)
So then Jesus was a flesh being. And the Holy Spirit was also a flesh being within the flesh being of Jesus, right?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 10 2010,14:16)
Ed, can you really not understand that “word” could be referring to God's Spokesman, who is call “the Word”………….OR simply to words someone has spoken?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hey Ed,That's very good research. Now show how you actually ANSWERED the question.
I notice 8 times I asked you this question ( for the 9th one you posted is a different question altogether ). I notice on the fifth time, I bolded it, because you kept playing around and not DIRECTLY answering what I was asking. I notice on the seventh time, I had to emphasize, “Ed, WHAT IS YOUR ANSWER?”.Now, do it again and be fair about this time. Don't post only the times I asked, but post all the times you answered. Show me the time you actually DIRECTLY answered my DIRECT question.
This was a very dishonest and biased post Ed. You should be ashamed of yourself.
mike
Hi Mike,The contention here was not how well that (you felt) I answered you
(based on your feeling that it wasn't sufficiently answered), but that
you were asking the same question more then once. Me, JustAskin
and others have noted you repeat some questions over and over.First, you complained about WJ telling you he already answered you,
leaving you a bit frustrated to be unable to reconcile your differences.JustAskin also felt that once he addressed your question, it was time move on.
I like you, seek strongly to find a way to reconcile differences in views. Therefore,
every time you reworded the question, I was able to reword my answer as well!But as you didn't find the original answer satisfactory,
neither did you find any of the variants acceptable either.First you accused me of not answering your question,
now you accuse me of dishonesty, for not reproducing all
my various answers to the same question worded over and over.The thread is located here…(Click Here)
Forum » BELIEVERS PLACE » Scripture & Biblical Doctrine »
For those who ‘think’ “The Word” is a person …Starting on Page 6.Go back and re-read all my various answers!
I have DONE NOTHING DISHONEST, nor have anything to hide!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
No Ed,YOU go and bring your supposed “answers” to my question over here so those reading THIS thread can have the WHOLE story. It was YOU who brought my questions, now be honest and show everyone how you actually DIRECTLY answered it but I just kept asking anyway.
It was a dishonest post because is was loaded. It was like only telling YOUR half of the story to a judge. Of course you will make yourself sound “right” if the judge doesn't have the benefit of hearing the “other side of the story”.
(1)You accused me of something here Ed. I didn't accuse you. I asked for proof. My repeated question to you is not proof of anything. Now if you can show where you DID actually answer the question and I kept asking anyway, then you have shown proof of what you accused me of. Until that time, it remains a dishonest post.
And I believe I have shown clearly enough that JA has NOT answered the purple question I have repeatedly asked. Nor did WJ answer any question that I repeatedly asked – or I would not have kept asking.
(2)The problem here is that some of you are experts at dodging questions. Trust me, when the question is answered, I always have a backup waiting. I just don't always get to use my backup question because the first one is “answered” by a diversion instead of a DIRECT answer.
(3)This is why the main rule I wanted enforced in my debate with JA is that we each get to ask ONE question per post and the other MUST answer it.
(4)He just refused to follow the rules he agreed to when entering the debate. What's the big deal anyway Ed? What is so hard about saying, “Mike, I already answered that. Remember? I said…………”?
mike
Hi Mike,If you 'felt' I inadequately answered your question then,
what would change if I re-posted all 8 of my answers?I accused you of NOTHING! I merely stated a FACT,
and the FACT remains: that you will repeat a question
when you 'feel' it wasn't answered to your satisfaction!1) I question your use of the word 'accuse' here!
I have sufficiently PROVED my assertion! Period, end of story.2) Well, at least now we have 'a label' for answers you don't like.
3) What rule? Oh: 'the main rule'.
I know somebody else that was unsuccessful
at trying to enforce 'a made up rule' as well; NO NAMES!4) I don't follow 'made up rules' either;
unless (of course) I agree with them!A friend of mine once said, and I quote…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 25 2010,13:00)
PLEASE don't instigate.
Are you instigating?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,00:17)
If you want people to always agree with you, set up your own church like WJ.
Hi JustAskin,Was that comment really called for?
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 22 2010,05:03)
Do you know where to end..
Do you have no boundaries…ahhh, you must be a Spirit Debater… No boundaries… No limits…
Come on JustAskin, lighten up!Quote I'm sorry JA, but you seem to have “lost it”. Your writings are barely understandable Ed, Why do you take sides ?
It's really not your business Ed…they never asked for you opinion.Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 26 2010,22:15) Quote I'm sorry JA, but you seem to have “lost it”. Your writings are barely understandable Ed, (1)Why do you take sides ?
(2)It's really not your business Ed…(2)they never asked for you opinion.
Hi Shimmer,1) Where did you get this quote from?
I don't remember saying anything like that?2) I can Post where ever and whatever I want!
3) Nor have I asked for yours.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ , Mike , JA…………………What does this have to do with was Jesus always superior. I do not believe Jesus was ever Superior Himself, except for the fact he was in the Plan and for knowledge as being the First to be Born into the Kingdom of GOD from among Mankind. A preexistent Glory afford Him before the creation of this earth ever began. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………….gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 26 2010,17:15) And 'Arche' does not mean 'Ruler'. What does Michael 'Rule' over.
JA:Quote And 'Arche' does not mean 'Ruler'. What does Michael 'Rule' over. Titus 3:1 NET
Remind them to be subject to rulersNIV
Remind the people to be subject to rulersNASB
Remind them to be subject to rulersBBE
Make clear to them that they are to put themselves under rulersNRSV
Remind them to be subject to rulersNKJV
Remind them to be subject to rulersKJV
Put them in mind to be subject to principalitiesThere's our old friend “principalities” in the KJV. Notice how they changed it to the more modern word “rulers” in the NKJV?
JA, the word “arche” means “ruler”. Should I go through more scriptures, or can you think of a better word than “ruler” that fits in Titus 3:1? Maybe you know better than all these scholars who translated Bibles?
I've got no more time for your tripe. If your answer to Col 1:16 is that “arche” doesn't really mean “ruler”, then what else can I do?
How about moving on to 1 Cor 8:6?
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
JA, if the “all things” that came FROM God include angels, then why wouldn't the same “all things” that came THROUGH Jesus include angels?
It will be hard for you to use your “all” doesn't really mean “ALL” theory on this one.
See if you can answer the bolded question without all the tripe, okay?
peace and love,
mikeEd, either show me where you DIRECTLY answered a question from me and I kept asking the SAME question anyway……….or shut up about it.
In fact Ed, why don't you show me where JA answered the question I asked? That's where this crap all stemmed from on this thread anyway. JA said he had already answered my question about INVISIBLE RULERS IN HEAVEN being created through Jesus. Show me where he answered it.
Mike,
As Edj says…no matter how many times someone answers you, you keep on repeating your question hoping to bully the person into saying what you want to believe.Believe it or not, Mike, you may be wrong.
All things … We are back to defining 'things'. Did Jesus create Mankind?
Is Mankind a 'thing', do we God created 'things' called Angels, or 'a thing' called Man (an Adam).Moreover, i answered you to say that the Senior Son is credited with ALL THINGS….
Now, even with my extended explanation, you still claim i didn't answer you?
Mikboll, you only seem to reador recall what you want to read or recall…and that's why so many posters say the same thing over and over and over…'Mike, i already answered you'.
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 27 2010,13:33) Mike,
As Edj says…no matter how many times someone answers you, you keep on repeating your question hoping to bully the person into saying what you want to believe.Believe it or not, Mike, you may be wrong.
All things … We are back to defining 'things'. Did Jesus create Mankind?
Is Mankind a 'thing', do we God created 'things' called Angels, or 'a thing' called Man (an Adam).Moreover, i answered you to say that the Senior Son is credited with ALL THINGS….
Now, even with my extended explanation, you still claim i didn't answer you?
Mikboll, you only seem to reador recall what you want to read or recall…and that's why so many posters say the same thing over and over and over…'Mike, i already answered you'.
JAALL things were created trough Christ ;what is it that was left out
??Pierre
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 28 2010,12:14) Terra, Were humans created through Jesus?
JAyes the first one,and in that creation they were created so that reproduction between them as they were created male and female (all animal same ) so that they do not have to be created each time over,got it??
Pierre
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 28 2010,14:33) Terra, So Adam was created through Jesus…please show me where it says that Jesus created Mankind.
JAALL things were created trough Christ ;what is it that was left out ??
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 27 2010,05:48) Hi Mike, Consider it dropped my friend!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you my friend.mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 28 2010,07:33) Terra, So Adam was created through Jesus…please show me where it says that Jesus created Mankind.
JA,No scripture anywhere says that Jesus created anything at all. What scripture says in many places is that all things were created by God THROUGH Jesus.
Did God create men JA? Okay, then they were created THROUGH Jesus. Did God create the angels JA? Okay, then they were created THROUGH Jesus.
And Pierre, I differ with you that only the first man was created through Jesus. I think every man who has ever lived and every man who will ever live was created or will be created by God. But in this case, we were not only created THROUGH Jesus, but also created by God THROUGH our natural parents.
Nothing is now alive that wasn't created by God and through Jesus except for Jesus himself, who was created DIRECTLY by his God.
At least that's the way I understand it, because Paul did not say “all things UP UNTIL ADAM”. And since many of Adam's descendants were living when Paul was inspired to write Col 1:16 and 1 Cor 8:6, then I would assume the “all things” included also those men who were after Adam.
JA, will you answer the question about 1 Cor 8:6? Or did you already answer that one too?
mike
JA:
Quote All things … We are back to defining 'things'.
Well JA, if the “all THINGS” that are said to come from God in 1 Cor 8:6 include men and angels, then it stands to reason that the exact same “all things” that are said to come through Jesus in that same scripture also include men and angels.JA, it's just a matter of whether you think men and angels are things that God created. Do you?
JA:
Quote Moreover, i answered you to say that the Senior Son is credited with ALL THINGS….
Oh, that's right. I just didn't think you were still considering that as a “real” answer. My bad. I thought that when I asked why Jesus, if not superior, was the “Senior Son” in the first place, it shot down that line of reasoning. And I further thought that after I reminded you of all the “losers” mentioned in the Bible, like Saul, that you had given up the thinking that “Satan was first, but his records were expunged because he turned bad”.What about all the “bad” Kings of Israel and Judah mentioned in the Bible JA? Were their records “expunged”, or can we read all about them in the Books of Kings? What about Moses' failure to credit God with the water out of the rock? Was Moses' “bad” behavior “expunged” from the Biblical records? How about when David basically committed a cold blooded murder?
You see? I didn't think that you SERIOUSLY even really considered these bits of tripe as answers in the first place……………but more like diversions to avoid answering the questions. And like I said, I'm sorry about that.
Now, should we discuss this tripe some more……….or are you ready to answer to the clear and direct scriptures? JA, should we keep playing word games with “all” and “things”, or what?
mike
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