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Fractal Scriptures…
The twelves Disciples, of whom one has fallen, the Son of perdition.
The princes, of whom one has fallen.Listen JA, you need to either agree to the debate overseen by Pierre, answer the question I've been asking, or leave me alone. You haven't posted one single thing that isn't easily answered by scripture. But I refuse to keep answering your points while you ignore mine.
Mike, you make yourself into a joke everytime you post now, so disarmed are you of anything to say.
Every post now includes 'principalities' yet I answer you many times over….yet you keep saying, 'you don't answer'…yikes…what do you want, Mike man, 'Stay on the Mike, stay on the Mike!', sorry, a little DJ joke there! Means, keep sayin' what ya' sayin'…
Scared of debating with you? S'truth Mike…since when did that happen… I can hardly imagine someone taunting another and the taunted one saying, 'hey, you too scared thats why you taunting me'…but you did…how weird.
Hey, 'i give you ONE page' before it's all over….provided you don't cheat with your usual monster posts saying how you gomma go 'point by point'…Ha ha ha…like this thread…ha ha ha…point by point,…and we never got past point 1….again…
Mikeboll64…you never change…
Mike, you claim everything i ask xan be answered by scriptures…then do so…anyone can say 'it can be answered by Scriptures'…in fact, it is meaningless, because what is the question and what is the answer?
Empty vessel.
the reason for your noneanswer is because you realise you 'daren't answer'.
Jesus embarasses powers …that means the Seraphims, and Cherubims…since the former only praise God, how and why did Jesus embarrass them publically?
And, apart from Lucifer, of whom no one rebuke but said only, 'the Lord Rebuke you', and God said 'You are rebuked', how and when did Jesus embarass THEM publically?Hmm…seems something wrong with whom these definitions are applied to…unless you can elaborate…and i bet you can't… Chalk on down…smarty…
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 11 2010,19:47) Mike 'master debator'…
Well, you said it…That's the problem Mike, you li,e tge debate, not the truth….the end of a debate scares you so you can never finish, never end.
“So, it is the [debate] you like. We are all ready to [debate]. It is the [ending of the debate] that you must prepare for!” (Paraphrase from 'Enter the Dragon')
And you are Scared…that is obvious…you refuse to check out truth by revelation because it would mean admitting you were wrong all this time…sad, so sad… I told you from the beginning, when you were 'debating' with TT that he was right and you were wrong, i told you in private even from then but you insisted on maintaining your position, your view…because you were going to trounce your adversary…Mike, i warned you, asked you, begged you, but you thought, 'i'm nearly there, nearly there, just a few more…'..balooom!!!,,,,(Red leader, Star Wars)
You maintained your view because you got drawn in by one of the oldest tricks: being unwilling to see truth in your adversary…only because he is your adversary…sad, so sad…a lesson for you to 'still' learn, my man.
“Hey, don't step there, I planted a landmine is under there”
“Ha, think you can fool me, eh?, You are my enemy, if you tell me to step here, i don't…if you tell me NOT to step there, then I step there…cos you my ene…” …kabloom….!!!!Mike, you won't gain your sought after position with your 'debacle pride in debating'. Debating is for saps who can't discuss honestly. Debates are for people who like arguing and want to give it an acceptable name…Douglas Adams wrote the part of the Mice in 'Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy' to become Chat Show hosts debating 'Life, the Universe and Everything', or was it just the answer to that question? Never the less, what was their desire, 'To be on the Gravy Train for life', disputing and refuting against each other with no intention of concorde.
Yes, Mike, this is your idea of godly worthyness.The deeds of Christ are preached, not of his being foremost from preexistence, but from from being foremost from raising up from the dead, 'first born Son over creation …of mankind…in his father's kingdom' with others of mankind to follow in his lead.
For, what purpose or value is it, that we should know that he is 'firstborn' of the angelic spirits? For, it is not by his angelic spirit that we are saved but by his being in the form of man, suffering with us, as one of us, showing us the way, and dying for us, raised up again and seated at the right hand of God his father.
Romans 8:38… '…nor ANGELS nor PRINCIPALITIES…nor POWERS…'.
'Sons of God', Romans 8:13-15, 'For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God [As Jesus was], these are sons of God'…'for you received the Spirit of Adoption by whom we cry out, 'Abba, Father'.'
ROMANS 8:29, 'for whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be CONFORMED to the IMAGE of His Son, that he MIGHT BE the FIRSTBORN amongst many brethren.'
Here, Rom 8:29, we see Jesus becoming the 'Firstborn', not from 'antiquity', nor, everlasting, nor before all the creations of God but then, after he was raised up, an example, the perfected example, for those who were/are to follow.
The 'begotten Son' is the Son raised up from sinless man in the Flesh to perfected sinless man in the Spirit, just as those to follow will be raised up from sinful man in the flesh to perfected sinless man in the Spirit
JAby reading your comment i understand you do not beleive in the preexistance of Christ.
is that true
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 11 2010,15:31)
And what else has this “bullying” got you? Well, it has gotten Shimmer to laugh along with you. You slam me, she says “Ha ha, you're funny JA”. Hmmmmmm…….what does scripture say?Matthew 18:6 NIV
“If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.Not only do you cause her to stumble because of your words of Satan disguised as humor,
Mike, JA is tired…look at the times he is posting here,I never laughed Mike, …I said – “JA, what are you saying ? Your funny” – (as…what are you saying ? whatever ? Your funny…He was saying all kinds of things) …But I was laughing at him…not what he was saying because I couldnt understand what he was saying, which is why I said “what are you saying”
And JA, why are you posting at that time of the morning ? You tell me not to. You should be asleep.
JA, Mike,
Jesus is…(Literal Translation)
First Begotten in the womb
Matthew 1:20
And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David,
thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy SpiritLuke 1:35
And the messenger answering said to her, `The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee,
therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;====================
And then Begotten from the dead
Acts 13:33
God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee.Hebrews
For to which of the messengers said He ever, `My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, `I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?'So also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: `My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;'
Shimmer, you are indeed a blessed arbitrator.
What you say is absloute truth.
Has it not been outlined: three times 'begotten' but only once do by the declaration by God, 'Thou art my Son, Today i have become your father', this after he was raised up as is shown in Hebrews.
Mike, you rightly exalt Shimmer…then listen to her.
I know you, and you are going to say, 'Could it be conceiveable that God said it to him in the first 'begetting'?'. Mike, if so show us…
Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 11 2010,05:47) Hi Shimmer, Funny, yes, I can be.
He will eventually go away, slip and slide, in a sidewinder fashion, under a rock until it is safe to come out again…
HI JustAskin,You are hilarious with the verbal abusive nonsense!
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,06:15) So JA, if that was true, that all things, including the Angels, were created through and for Him, then, Jesus could still have been an Angel, created by God, as Adam was created by God…the other Angels created after Him, as others were (procreated) after Adam…sort of thing ? Just my thoughts dont worry if they dont make sense at all.
Hi Shimmer,I'll also spill my guts as JustAskin suggests we should do!
Jesus could have been the entirety of God including Lucifer.
Born into the matrix with “The Mind Sweep” as all of us were,
having NO preexistence MEMORY whatsoever. Having to lean
on the Scriptures for his understanding (as we all must do too).
But not really being able to sin because as we would NOT go
against what drives our decisions, neither would he. (Phil.2:5-8)This concept (still unknown to most Christians), I will be presenting with much detail
giving many Scriptural references on the new thread I started for this very purpose!Look a little closer once again at Phil.2:5-8 in this Light,
you might find that you are ready to agree with me now!Philippians 2:5-8 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and
was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled
himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. (Luke 10:30-37)
I believe many here at Heaven.net are ready to finally here “The Truth”! (John 16:12-16)Your brother in
Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Psalm 119:99-101)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ Nov. 11 2010,08:53) Shimmer, Romans 8:29 also confirms that Jesus, emptied of his heavenly divine nature, became a man,
a sinless man so that he might suffer like us, for us and be the lead,
become the FIRSTBORN over many predestined brethren.
Hi JustAskin,Your Spot on, on this one! …and Scripture also says…
1Tm.3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest IN THE FLESH, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Quote (JustAskin @ Nov. 11 2010,09:48) Terra, i can display diagramatically what I believe
Hi JustAskin,I'd like to see that!
I have actually done that very thing myself.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,20:39) JA, Mike, Jesus is…(Literal Translation)
First Begotten in the womb
Matthew 1:20
And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David,
thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy SpiritLuke 1:35
And the messenger answering said to her, `The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee,
therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;====================
And then Begotten from the dead
Acts 13:33
God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee.Hebrews
For to which of the messengers said He ever, `My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, `I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?'So also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: `My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;'
Shimmer………As i said the student has become the teacher,
, I's all right there , that fact Jesus is talked about in a furture tense, should alone convience anyone with common sense that Jesus did not preexist his berth on earth. “HE (SHALL) BE CALLED”, AND AGAIN “THE HOLY-BEGOTTEN (THING) (SHALL) BE CALLED”. NOTICE the angel does not attribute any past recondition to the (THING) in Mary. If Jesus had previously existed he would not have used that language , (THE THING) IN YOU. But would have identified Him as someone He foreknew, Like He that is in You or the person or the angel in you, but none of these expression are used, Just THE (THING) IN YOU> To me this also proved no past association involved. Just another card removed from the house of Cards Preexistences and Trinitarians have built. 
, Shimmer i find it quite enjoyable when i see your sound answers to these “wanna be” teachers of yours. Now that does cause me to laugh. Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 12 2010,07:14) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 11 2010,20:39) JA, Mike, Jesus is…(Literal Translation)
First Begotten in the womb
Matthew 1:20
And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, `Joseph, son of David,
thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten [is] of the Holy SpiritLuke 1:35
And the messenger answering said to her, `The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee,
therefore also the holy-begotten thing shall be called Son of God;====================
And then Begotten from the dead
Acts 13:33
God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee.Hebrews
For to which of the messengers said He ever, `My Son thou art — I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, `I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?'So also the Christ did not glorify himself to become chief priest, but He who spake unto him: `My Son thou art, I to-day have begotten thee;'
Shimmer………As i said the student has become the teacher, , I's all right there , that fact Jesus is talked about in a furture tense, should alone convience anyone with common sense that Jesus did not preexist his berth on earth. “HE (SHALL) BE CALLED”, AND AGAIN “THE HOLY-BEGOTTEN (THING) (SHALL) BE CALLED”. NOTICE the angel does not attribute any past recondition to the (THING) in Mary. If Jesus had previously existed he would not have used that language , (THE THING) IN YOU. But would have identified Him as someone He foreknew, Like He that is in You or the person or the angel in you, but none of these expression are used, Just THE (THING) IN YOU> To me this also proved no past association involved. Just another card removed from the house of Cards Preexistences and Trinitarians have built. , Shimmer i find it quite enjoyable when i see your sound answers to these “wanna be” teachers of yours. Now that does cause me to laugh. Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
geneso you pleading with your own ignorance??
there is definitely no knowledge there.
Pierre
Edj,
Are you saying that you have never seen what i posted in diagram, line drawing showing the heavenly order.When HTML5 becomes standard for webpages then i can draw full diagrams … And they will be interactive…shareable online, watch as i draw kinda thing… I used a demo already… Timezones will be the limiting factor.
But i will try to plot out my thoughts again…sometime…
Everlasting past…… God alone
Some point in everlasting past….the angels are created.
The heavenly order set in place…Seraphims, cherubims, archangels, other angels (All in heaven are spirit and are Angels…p.s. the name WE call them). They are ALL 'Sons of God'. There is no distinction in form, only in power and authority, their stations. Just as the builder 'employs' workers of differing skills and abilities…each is just as worthy as the other for if any is less then the house will have a flaw, like the body, who devalues any part of themselves, says the left hand is not as good as the right, or the wisdom tooth is more worthy than the incisor? For all are required for the correct funtioning of the body…so to the value of every worker building the house, for the house owner is very demanding and every part must be as perfect as the other, from the most visible to least perceptible.The Princes, principle Sons. Every King has a set of sons, princes, who he credits, tests them for the inheritance, measures their value by their deeds and loyalty and righteousness.
'Lucifer', 'Jesus', two…more? Four? Twelve. Numbers, repeated number, in Scriptures are purposeful, not random…take note… 12 tribes of Israel, twelve disciples, 144,000(12 * 12) 12 loaves…others…
Two…Cain and Abel/Seth, Isaac and Ismael, Jacob and Esau, Jesus and Adam, Jesus and Lucifer ( the only two of the heavenly host who hold power in rulership over kingdoms)..one sinned, the other was righteous, one was acceptable, the other hated by God (For Jacob [God] loved but Esau [God] hated),two trees, one of life, one of knowledge. Two vines (Daniel's vision)~~~~~
The angels, under God's guidance, the master planner, set to work and thd creation is completed…the Stars, the Principle Sons, sing together, the '[other] sons of God' Shout with Joy…all very natural…
Then, God tells man he must worship Him as Father….this means hold to His way, God has held back things from him for he is a 'wetling' and cannot handle the great glory of God for now, but in time…cleave to the Father, you are son of God in the flesh.
But, Lucifer, arrayed in glory, resplendent in all the precious stones of the earth, tall, mighty, and 'haughty with it' is not satisfied, he demands glory in worship…are these wonders not also the works of my hand, the 'covering Cherubim', see the splendour…look here, look there, i did that…where is my reward? Jesus is quiet and serene, placid even in his mighty power as equal with Lucifer.
So, Lucifer demands glory…God warns him to stay in his station, 'Stay off the Mike, Stay off the Mike'…sorry…
But the seed of sin grows in Lucifer and he defies God, desires to raise his own station up to the seat of God, as Firstborn, senior over his brethren…God denies him, and he goes off to tell Adam and Eve that God is holding back things from them, namely, everlasting life, and, self acquiring Knowledge.But he knows not to approach Adam directly because Adam would most likely have refused, and he only had one chance…before Adam and Eve procreated. So, naturally, he chose eve…and tempted her, and she fell…but see, this did not bring sin…She went to her husband and pursuaded him to defy God to taste the fruit of desire for knowledge and wisdom, taking no heed to the lie that they would not die…Eve thinking she would die immediately and didn't so her husband thought, 'hmmm, ok'. Of course Lucifer, now 'a Devil and Satan,' just Satan for short, knew it meant death of Mankind by sin, not individual, fall down immediate dead!!!
So, Jesus was found to be more righteous than his brethren…and his brethren, Lucifer, at least, chose to desire worship for his part in the creation plan and execution.
And so sin entered the world and man was destined to die. Satanbraised a challenge to God and God had to respond to it to show once and for all, that his righteousness was ultimate. So Satan was given his kingdom and 'a short time' to see what he could do, have all the trials you like, test them, fool them, pain them with heat, cold, hunger, thirst, greed, poverty, licenciousness, gluttony, vice, anger, rage, whatever, shortlived richness, unwarranted pleasures, knowledge, 'technology', discoveries beyong their understanding, anything, evrything,…but you cannot Annihilate them, ok?'
…End of part one…
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