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Quote (Wakeup @ April 24 2014,21:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2014,12:19)
Genesis 3:5 King James Version
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.Genesis 3:22 New International Version
And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.”The “gods” mentioned in Gen 3:5 are the angels, Wakeup.
Mike B.Angels are not called gods in scripture.
When the KJV said Adam and Eve would be “as gods” in Genesis 3:5, who do you suppose they were talking about, Wakeup? Who were “the gods” the KJV scholars were talking about?Psalm 8:5 King James Version
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.The Hebrew word that the KJV translated as “the angels” is the word “elohim”. That word means “gods”, Wakeup.
So when David originally wrote Psalm 8:5, he said that Jehovah had made mankind a little lower than the gods.
The KJV is right that David was talking about God's angels – but David called those angels “gods”.
There are also many other examples in scripture of angels being called “gods”.
How long will you argue against the scriptures themselves?
Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,21:51) Mike, Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
I believe that was Wakeup's point, Kerwin.If the tree of life would have no effect on uncorrupted flesh that was going to live forever anyway – what use would there be for a tree of life in the Garden of Eden?
Why put it there in the first place?
Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,21:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2014,07:43) Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,11:40) Nick, It is not written that angels are not flesh………..
It IS written that the dead will be raised with spiritual bodies – like those of heaven have.Kerwin, the fact that YOU can't understand the teaching of 1 Cor 15 doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about God being a SPIRIT, who lives in the SPIRIT realm of heaven……….. a realm that flesh can neither see, enter, nor inherit.
Spirit is so often used in scripture as the ANTONYM of flesh that I can't see how you ever concocted this “spiritual flesh” thing.
It's absurd, to say the least.
Mike,You want the word natural in 1 Corinthians 15 to mean flesh and it does not. There is nothing you can do to make it so.
You want all flesh to be the same and is not and there is nothing you can do to change what is.
You want 1 Corinthians to state only a spirit body can ascend to heaven and it does not and there is nothing you can do to alter that.
I don't “WANT” any of those things, Kerwin. You are simply telling lies.I painstakingly explained all this to you, but since you are in the process of writing your own Bible, because you think you will be “important” by figuring out this “new hidden secret” or something, you ignored all the CLEAR scriptural teachings I showed you.
Your “spiritual flesh” theory is absurd. Heaven is a spirit realm, where spirit beings dwell. Not to mention, “flesh itself” cannot be “spiritual” – in the sense of walking in the ways of God. A PERSON can be “spiritual” in that sense, but the flesh BODY in which he dwells does not make the decision to either walk after God, or walk away from Him.
So the only way a non-sentient BODY can be “spiritual”, is by being “comprised of spirit”, or “belonging to a spirit”.
pneumatikos (spiritual)
1) relating to the human spirit, or rational soul, as part of the man, which is akin to God and serves as his instrument or organ
1a) that which possesses the nature of the rational soul2) belonging to a spirit, or a being higher than man but inferior to God
3) belonging to the Divine Spirit
3a) of God the Holy Spirit
3b) one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God4) pertaining to the wind or breath; windy, exposed to the wind, blowing
Not one of those things has to do with a BODY – except for #2, Kerwin.
Remember that Paul was answering the question, “With what kind of BODIES will the dead be raised?” His answer was that we have already borne the flesh and blood BODY of the first Adam. In the resurrection, the elect will bear the spiritual BODY of those of heaven.
And a non-sentient BODY simply can't be “spiritual” in the way you WANT it to mean.
Get it? Paul was talking about BODIES. He said those BODIES would be “spiritual”. And as I've shown you from the definitions above, #2 is the ONLY definition of “spiritual” that would apply to a BODY. The rest apply to the “spirit” or “soul” part of man…….. NOT to his BODY.
That's also why John said he DIDN'T yet know what he would be, because he HADN'T yet seen Jesus “as he is”. He knew he would be LIKE Jesus when Jesus returned – because he would then finally be able to see Jesus “as he is” now. (That means he DIDN'T see Jesus “as he is” for those 40 days after the resurrection. A sane person can reason these things out. A person trying to make a name for himself is willing to overlook this simple teaching. The person trying to make a name for himself also overlooks the PURPOSE of Jesus' transfiguration.)
These teachings go right over your head, because your focus is on becoming some “important” person who has “solved” a hidden scriptural mystery about “spiritual flesh”.
You can't blame us for your shortcomings.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 27 2014,02:45) Wakeup…….God placed the Cherubim there AFTER Adam sinned not before he did , Adam and Eve both had access to the tree of life in their flesh “BEFORE THEY SINNED” because it was in the Garden of Eden and God said they could eat (take to themselves ) of all the Trees in the Garden except the Tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil, he did not leave out the Tree of Life, it was there for them to take of. But after they sinned God placed a Cherubim with a flaming sowd to prevent them from getting to it, “LEST THEY SHOULD EAT AND LIVE FOREVER AND NEVER DIE” and that was while they were flesh and blood humans beings. Wakeup just admit it, you have bought into the biggest lie ever told and it is Just exactly what Satan want people to believe , because he hate humanity. He know what Position God has placed on the human race and that “ALL” thing are going to be SUBJECT to US, and Jesus, another human being is even now Proof of that very thing.
Jesus was not a Spirit when he arose from the grave and still is not a Spirit being and when he return he will still be a SON of MAN , Just as scripture say he will, “for when the SON of MAN return will he fond Faith on the Earth”. and again When the SON OF MAN returns he will sit on the throne of his glory Jesus called himself a SON of MAN around 80 times in scriptures. He definitely considers himself a SON OF MAN a human being and he still is, he was never anything different then that either. Common sense should tell you there would be no need of a resurrection of a body at all, if a Body was not going to be resurrected.
Paul said “IT” (the body) is sown in weakness (not the spirit is sown in weakness) the Body , “IT” (the body) is raised in POWER” “IT” (the body) is sown a Natural BODY, “IT” (the natural body is raised a “SPIRITUAL” “BODY” ) the word Spiritual implies spiritual supported or activated, not a SPIRIT BODY but a body Spirit activated. Not one scripture in all the bible say the word, “SPIRIT BODY” , because Spirit are not BODIES of any kind. they are what DWELLS “IN” Bodies, of all kinds.
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene B.You are teaching that doctrine,without realising what you are doing to the Word.
You are contradicting scriptures.
1.Jesus said when you are born of the spirit ;you are spirit.
you have denied his words;by saying,no; you are not
spirit but flesh.2.Scripture says that angels are created spirits.
You have denied these words also to keep your doctrine.
By saying; No; angels are flesh.3.Scriptures says that Jesus was made so much better then
the angels.
You denied this scripture,by saying that he is less than the
angels,for He is flesh. That makes Him also less than satan
because satan is spirit.4.Scripture says that God is a spirit and his only begotten
Son,is also spirit;for he is born of the spirit.
You say no; God is a spirit but His only begotten Son is
flesh.5.You believe that the Word of God is spirit; but now he is
demoted into flesh.In other words.
The Word was made flesh, and the Word stayed flesh.
Less than the angels.PS. Flesh is mortal; back then and today.
There is no such as immortal flesh.
God said: For out of dust you are made, and unto dust
you will return.
You say; not so easy:we will not turn to dust if Adam
did not sin. We will stay flesh forever,and our father is
spirit.
Question: How then, can we ever be one.?Spirits do not die by itself,nor of old age.
They only die when destoyed.What you are saying is that Adam ate of the tree of life before he ate of the tree of knowledge.
Question: Then why did he still die; after given everlasting life,why did he die?
Is the tree of life not everlasting life?What you are saying is; one can eat the tree of life and have everlasting life; BUT CAN STILL DIE IF HE SINS.
I say: then it is not everlasting life.The reward is given after the works;not before.
wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2014,08:30) Job 19:26…. And after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my “FLESH” shall I see God.
Job 19:26 BBE ©
And…without my flesh I will see God;NETNotes says this about it:
The Hebrew phrase is “and from my flesh.”
This could mean “without my flesh,” i.e., separated from my flesh, or “from my flesh,” i.e., in or with my flesh.
Kerwin and Gene would do well to remember these words from Jesus:
John 6:63
NET © ………human nature is of no help……….NIV ©
……the flesh counts for nothing…………NASB ©
…….the flesh profits nothing……BBE ©
…..the flesh is of no value………NRSV ©
…..the flesh is useless…….NKJV ©
……….the flesh profits nothing………Quote (Wakeup @ April 27 2014,04:46) You are contradicting scriptures.
1.Jesus said when you are born of the spirit ;you are spirit.
you have denied his words;by saying,no; you are not
spirit but flesh.
Wakeup…….What Jesus said was that which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh , but Spirits exist “IN” Flesh and that is what a living Soul is, or don't you believe what scripture says a Living soul “IS”.Spirit does beget Spirit and one Spirit can beget it self in billions of people at the same time. If you understood what spirit is, you could understand that, God who Jesus said is Spirit can be in ALL and through ALL at the same time. God said he would pour out his Spirit on all Flesh, Spirit is like water it can exist in all beings at the same time. A particular Spirit is not limited to one being, it can exist in many beings at the same time as God who Jesus said is a spirit Can.
But a Living Soul is not JUST SPIRIT, it is a combination of Spirit and Flesh it is limited to an individual Person or Soul. God plainly said if the Man (a living soul), ate of the Tree of Life, he would have lived for ever. You can chose to disbelieve God all you want to but i believe God knew exactly what he was saying at the time he said it . IMO
To imply otherwise is a lie. If you chose to lie against scripture that is up to you , your forcing the text to say and mean what it does not specifically say, like Mike does. You are adding your own meanings to them .
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 27 2014,04:58) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2014,08:30) Job 19:26…. And after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my “FLESH” shall I see God.
Job 19:26 BBE ©
And…without my flesh I will see God;NETNotes says this about it:
The Hebrew phrase is “and from my flesh.”
This could mean “without my flesh,” i.e., separated from my flesh, or “from my flesh,” i.e., in or with my flesh.
Mike …….I understand how you can find some other interpretation that meet you dogmas, But most all translation have it Just as i have quoted it. You say it could mean this or that, but it could mean Just as it is written also. Why do you have to hunt so hard to find things to meet you Dogmas like there being other Gods, which breaks the first commandment of God., “ you shall have no other God, beside Me. You need to deal with that first of all. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene B.
Job 19:26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
His skin will turn to dust; BUT YET in his flesh shall he see God.
Job will indeed see God in his flesh;in the thousand year kingdom.All the remnants will be there.Abraham will be there.They will be brought back in the flesh and taught,
Christ.For all must go through Him.
*********Spirit:
You need to understand that there are many different kinds of spirits.Adam and Eve were given the spirit of the world.
Which is; lets get some more;lets try that, for it looks nice,
and very attractive.
When the law says; you shall not.1.Satan is not just a spirit;he is a spirit creature.
And so are his angels.Creatures with a mind.They have
thinking capability.2.Evil spirits are also creatures that can think,and plan.
They are the essence of those hybrids,that died in the flood.
They are not accepted back in heaven. because their
fathers were the fallen angels.(rejects).3.The Hs is the spirit of truth,which is a spirit force from
God.And He is in the Word.He is that spirit that glorifies
God and Jesus;when we pray. When we shout; Glory to
God and the Lord; Or praise the almighty God and
Jesus my Lord;that is the HS speaking through us.4.The spirit of men: depends on each person.Each his own
desires,and lusts.
Every one has different lusts and desires.Some have the
spirit of gambling.Some the spirit of giving and sharing.
Some the spirit of lying.All these are influenced by evil
spirits send by satan and his princes.
We must be able to resist,in the name of Jesus.5.The souls of men is what he was like as a whole during his
lifetime.(his essence).The soul will be judged.
Some have been good, some not so good,and some
were very bad in essence.
The good with the spirit of Christ,will be given a form.
They will be spirit creatures.Like the angels.6. Jesus did not come to earth to repair the flesh of men.
But the spirit of men.The inside of men;so we can be with
God forever.With the spirit of Jesus in us;we will be
resurrected like him.Not in the flesh,but we will be spirit
creatures; like the angels.We know according to scripture
that angels are created spirit.And we know also that there
will be no marriage,nor children born.
All that is of the past.7. Babylon has her spirit,which is greed,for the material,and
lust of the flesh;these are just spirits; with no body.
But manifests itself in a person,and that prson become
very greedy and full of different kinds of lusts.
Each his own kind of lust.8.The Word of God is spirit,that manifests himself in the
flesh of Christ.That spirit is called the HS.
And we are to desire this spirit;to have the spirit of the
world replaced;cast off.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2014,23:29) Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2014,21:51) Mike, Consider that a person that God created and he created him with a flesh body which was not subject to corruption. Should that man eat of the tree of Life it would simply have no effect.
I believe that was Wakeup's point, Kerwin.If the tree of life would have no effect on uncorrupted flesh that was going to live forever anyway – what use would there be for a tree of life in the Garden of Eden?
Why put it there in the first place?
Mike,Why not?
A hypothesis is that it was there until the time the race of man was mature enough to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and then they would eat of the tree of life and become like angels.
The bottom line is God does not tell us nor leave enough clues for us to be sure of anything. The only support for that hypothesis I see is I do not think we gain anything from choosing to do evil.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 26 2014,23:58) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 25 2014,08:30) Job 19:26…. And after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my “FLESH” shall I see God.
Job 19:26 BBE ©
And…without my flesh I will see God;NETNotes says this about it:
The Hebrew phrase is “and from my flesh.”
This could mean “without my flesh,” i.e., separated from my flesh, or “from my flesh,” i.e., in or with my flesh.
Mike,From my flesh I see all my eyes see. The same is true with my flesh. I think they both mean the same thing.
Mike,
It is the spiritual side of a man that gives life to the flesh. The Spirit of God is even more powerful.
Jesus is speaking of the Spirit of God, the Spirit God gave to him, it descended and later ascended but his flesh counted for nothing.
It is one of the times he chose to speak a little clearer to his audience.
Kerwin.
The flesh sees with the eyes;which can not see the deep things.
The spirit sees the deep things with undestanding.wakeup.
Mike,
Spiritual flesh is “governed by the Spirit of God” which is 3b. Natural flesh is “governed by breath”
Note: natural
Hi WU,
Is this all your own ideas?
It bears little similarity to what scripture shows.“1.Satan is not just a spirit;he is a spirit creature.
And so are his angels.Creatures with a mind.They have
thinking capability.2.Evil spirits are also creatures that can think,and plan.
They are the essence of those hybrids,that died in the flood.
They are not accepted back in heaven. because their
fathers were the fallen angels.(rejects).3.The Hs is the spirit of truth,which is a spirit force from
God.And He is in the Word.He is that spirit that glorifies
God and Jesus;when we pray. When we shout; Glory to
God and the Lord; Or praise the almighty God and
Jesus my Lord;that is the HS speaking through us.4.The spirit of men: depends on each person.Each his own
desires,and lusts.
Every one has different lusts and desires.Some have the
spirit of gambling.Some the spirit of giving and sharing.
Some the spirit of lying.All these are influenced by evil
spirits send by satan and his princes.
We must be able to resist,in the name of Jesus.5.The souls of men is what he was like as a whole during his
lifetime.(his essence).The soul will be judged.
Some have been good, some not so good,and some
were very bad in essence.
The good with the spirit of Christ,will be given a form.
They will be spirit creatures.Like the angels.6. Jesus did not come to earth to repair the flesh of men.
But the spirit of men.The inside of men;so we can be with
God forever.With the spirit of Jesus in us;we will be
resurrected like him.Not in the flesh,but we will be spirit
creatures; like the angels.We know according to scripture
that angels are created spirit.And we know also that there
will be no marriage,nor children born.
All that is of the past.7. Babylon has her spirit,which is greed,for the material,and
lust of the flesh;these are just spirits; with no body.
But manifests itself in a person,and that prson become
very greedy and full of different kinds of lusts.
Each his own kind of lust.8.The Word of God is spirit,that manifests himself in the
flesh of Christ.That spirit is called the HS.
And we are to desire this spirit;to have the spirit of the
world replaced;cast off.wakeup. “
Why do you show little respect for the HOLY SPIRIT?Wakeup………I agree with Nick, where did you come up with all this stuff. You seem to just put things together as you see fit brother, piece milling without specific scripture backup only furthers confusion here. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
all
MT 9:17 “Nor do people put new wine into old wineskins; otherwise the wineskins burst, and the wine pours out and the wineskins are ruined; but they put new wine into fresh wineskins, and both are preserved.”
WHAT DO YOU THINK “THE OLD WINESKINS” AND THE “NEW WINESKINS ” REPRESENT
AND WHAT WOULD BE THE WINE
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