Was Donald chosen by God?

[Berean]

Proclaimer, Can you imagine that the USA (the world’s leading power) is prophesied in the Bible?

YES OR NO?

IF YES, WHERE IN THE BIBLE?

IF NOT, IT SEEMS STRANGE TO ME.

[Proclaimer]

I don’t think so as the Bible is predominately talking about the area around the Great Sea, (Mediterranean). But if I had to choose a scripture despite not being sure about it, I would choose the following as the vessel that God uses to protect the Jews in the last days.

“And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.”

Like I said though, I do not hold to or teach that America is in the Bible excluding the fact that the world is in the Bible and is mentioned many times and America is part of the world.

But go ahead and give me your strongest scripture about America?

[Berean]

@Proclaimer

You.  …..I don’t think so as the Bible is predominately talking about the area around the Great Sea, (Mediterranean).

…..

Me

I live nearby and I have a daughter who lives on the shore.

The first beast in Revelation 13 is described as “rise up out of the sea”…

And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast come up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

You are very inclined to say that this is the Mediterranean
..I would say that it is probable…but not a certainty
the word “sea” is symbolic, as is the word “beast”

Rev.17 tells us

1)-I will show you the judgment of the great whore who sits upon many waters:

17) And he said to me, The waters which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and languages.

The beast rising from the Sea signals a power that arises from a populous region, as is the case with the papacy that arose in the nascent Europe after the fall of the pagan Roman Empire.

I come to the USA

The Declaration of Independence was proclaimed on July 4, 1776, in which the three colonies united to form the United States of America, the first decolonized nation in the world, recognized by Great Britain at the end of the war in 1783.

The United States of America was thus formed shortly before the wounding of the first beast in 1798.

They are described 👉in their rising phase in Rev. 13:11 as being a “beast coming up👉 out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb”
and in their final persecuting phase👉 “speaking like a dragon.”

coming out of the earth

“earth” is a symbolic word as well as the word “sea” and “beast”

the meaning of the word earth

On a clue in Revelation 12
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water like a flood after the woman, in order to cause her to be carried away by the flood.
[16] And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had cast out of his mouth.

This “earth” which came to the aid of the woman (the persecuted church in Europe)
SYMBOLIZES a sparsely populated nation.
This is the case of North America in the 18th century which was a welcoming land for the persecuted nations of Europe.

If you want to know more read this (from R. Wieland’s book: the Gospel in Revelation)

Revelation 13:11-14: And I saw another beast
rising out of the earth, and it had two horns
like a lamb, and it spoke like a dragon. It
exercises all the power of the first beast before it, and it makes the earth and
the inhabitants thereof to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound
was healed. It performs great wonders,
even making fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. It deceives
those who dwell on the earth by those signs which it
was given to do in the sight of the beast, saying
to those who dwell on the earth that they should make an image to the beast which had been wounded by the sword
and did live.

We have already seen how the “sea” represents
large human populations. The “earth” must therefore be
the opposite: an uninhabited part of the world
hence a remarkable new nation
should “arise” at the time when the papacy was being led into captivity at the time of
his “deadly wound” in A.D. 1798.
What great nation was rising to prominence and
power about the time when the 1260 years of papal
supremacy ended in 1798? There was only one
prominent nation arising at that time in a largely
uninhabited part of the world, and that was the
United States of America, which declared its
independence in 1776, and which was experienced
its early beginnings by 1798. This nation arose in
the New World, a vast continent of largely
uninhabited land. The rise of this great republic
from colonial beginnings is one of the most
phenomenal in the history of nations. It has “two
horns like a lamb,” suggesting the youthful
character of the young America, and its twin
principles of civil and religious liberty which
helped so much to develop the nation into a
prosperous world power.
Unlike the horns on the other beasts or
kingdoms, these two horns have no crowns upon
them. The founders of America determined to learn a lesson from Europe’s past history, by creating a
new nation without a king.
But what a pity that its character changes from
that of a “lamb” to a “dragon” who “exercises all
the power of the first beast.” Here we see that
America will yet become a persecuting power, and
will reach out to grasp the hand of the papacy. So
dose will be the union between the two that he will
cause “the earth and those who dwell in it to
worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was
healed.”
The healing of the papacy’s deadly wound has
been a gradual one; but the most significant step
was taken on February 11, 1929, when Premier
Mussolini restored to the papacy its temporal
power, and the pope again became a king. An
official witnessing the signing of the agreement
between Mussolini and the papacy said, “We are
now witnessing the signing of this document. As
the ink flows from these pens it is healing the
wound of 131 years old.”

….

 

🙏

[Proclaimer]

If you are wrong, then you are essentially rejecting a leader called by God in response to the prayers of the righteous. In doing so, you oppose God’s anointed. God raises up leaders according to what the people deserve, and He answers the prayers of His people.

Furthermore, many end-time doctrines exist, but all the beasts in Revelation and Daniel are linked to the great sea. These empires followed one another in a continuous succession. I become immediately suspicious when interpretations relocate these beasts away from the great sea and apply them to the USA, Russia, China, or other modern nations.

I do not subscribe to your denomination’s end-time doctrines.

[Proclaimer]

Trump and Elon Musk double down on DOGE

The government’s leading disaster relief agency reportedly spent millions on hotels for illegal immigrants just last week, according to Elon Musk, who is leading the Trump administration’s efforts to cut government spending.

[Berean]

Proclaimer,

It might be time for you to really get down to serious study of biblical revelation. (In particular Daniel and Revelation)
We don’t have much time left for that.

In any case, the future will show that the little I have tried to show you is not wrong.

The final test will be about the law of God and in particular the fourth commandment.

Rev.12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which👉 keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.👈

Rev.14:12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev.22:12] And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
[13] I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
[14] Blessed are👉 they that do his commandments,👈 that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

The SDA church is not a cult.

The devil is waging continual war against us as described in Rev.12:17 and Rev.17:12-14
but by the grace of God, Christ will deliver us from his hand and from those who are his prisoners.

[Berean]

The State of Alabama is now forcing schools to pray and pledge allegiance or suffer the penalty! END TIMES ARE HERE!

[Berean]

Just In: The State of Texas now has a bill that is going to force schools to pray and now they have the Supreme Court on their side. The project 2025 agenda is going from state to state.

[Proclaimer]

The Great Sea is a term used in the Old Testament, primarily referring to the Mediterranean Sea (e.g., Numbers 34:6-7, Joshua 1:4, Ezekiel 47:10). However, the Book of Revelation does not explicitly mention the “Great Sea” by name, but could still be referring to it.

Daniel’s visions also involve empires that ruled around the Mediterranean (Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome), many scholars believe that the “great sea” in Daniel 7 is referring to the Mediterranean.

[Proclaimer]

All the empires were in succession except the second to last one and the last one which are related.

The empire that came after Rome was the Ottoman Empire, which is an Islamic Empire whose religion denies the Son of God meaning it shows itself as AntiChrist.

Further a  method of execution is beheading and the only group doing that today is Islam. While it was used by Catholicism, governments, monarchies, and legal systems, the only system today where it is instructed is Islam.

“I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”

Now understand this. The Middle East is the native area for Christians, but today there are few places where Christians exist in large numbers. What happened to them? What people and religion replaced them? If you know the answer to that, then you will also know that they went through tribulation and still do to this day.

The USA is not part of the Beast and neither was the British Empire. We are more likely in between a period of Islamic empire in the region and perhaps beyond.

“And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.”

[Berean]

Trump Praised a Catholic Cathedral, calling it a “Monument to God and to the Patron Saint,” while J.D. Vance gave a White House tour to a Dominican Priest

 

“In the movements now in progress in the United States to secure for the institutions and usages of the church the support of the state, Protestants are following in the steps of papists. Nay, more, they are opening the door for the papacy to regain in Protestant America the supremacy which she has lost in the Old World” (Great Controversy, p. 573).
On Monday, March 17, 2025, President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance celebrated Saint Patrick’s Day, a Catholic tradition honoring the feast day of Saint Patrick, the patron saint of Ireland. Donald Trump expressed that our nation loves Saint Patrick’s Day and that the Saint Patrick’s Cathedral, a symbol of the deep roots of Catholicism in the US and the seat of the Archbishop of New York, was a monument to God and to the patron saint—Saint Patrick.

The idea that Christians should pray to the saints, asking for their intercession before God, believing they can advocate for us, is a custom originating in Rome. President Donald Trump is recognizing the veneration of human traditions above the commandments of God. Protestant America is exalting the traditions of the papacy through the Office of the U.S. presidency.

Vice President JD Vance celebrated Saint Patrick’s Day by bringing a Dominican priest into the White House briefing room, located inside the West Wing of the White House, near the Oval Office. This is where the president and his secretary hold briefings to communicate about the US government’s policies and decisions. It is obvious that Roman Catholicism has strong ties to the highest levels of American politics, not by accident, but rather as a sign of Rome’s growing influence.

From the presence of Catholic justices shaping the Supreme Court to the increasing number of Catholic politicians in key government positions—including the vice president, cabinet officials, and members of Congress—Rome’s sway over Protestant American policy and governance is unmistakable. This influence extends beyond mere religious affiliation or association but will also be manifest when our nation embarks on an alliance with the Vatican to promote Sunday sacredness. As Protestant America seeks to restore Christianity through the union of church and state, this will only catapult Rome’s prestige and power. We are told that as Protestants work to steer the nation into an image of the beast, this will only bring reverence and power to the papacy in fulfillment of a bigger prophetic plan:

“Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy … Let the principle once be established in the United States, that the church may employ or control the power of the State; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and State is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured” (Great Controversy, p. 580).

[Berean]

@ Proclaimer

You: “The empire that followed Rome was the Ottoman Empire, an Islamic empire whose religion denies the Son of God, meaning it presents itself as the Antichrist.”

me

I don’t believe a word of this because it is not strongly supported by biblical prophecy.

If you like, let’s start with Daniel 2.
This is the basic prophecy

Four world empires are described
And this does not contradict what Revelation 12/13/17 says about the seven heads of the beast.

The statue in Daniel 2

IRON SYMBOLIZES ROME, THE FOURTH WORLD EMPIRE

NOW

👇

THE FEET AND TOES OF THE STATUE
ARE MADE OF IRON AND CLAY

We see that there is a Roman element, because the iron symbolizes Rome ok!
But not only.
Let’s look at what Daniel 2 say about IRON AND CLAY

👇

WHAT IS THE MEANING GIVEN BY DANIEL 2 ?

FIRST.

👉 V.41]

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, 👉 the kingdom 👉shall be divided;👈 but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron,
forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.

DANIEL TELLS US THAT THE FOURTH KINGDOM (ROME)👉 WILL BE DIVIDED👈

SECONDLY

👇
[42] And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so 👉 the kingdom 👈shall be partly 👉 strong, and partly broken.

DANIEL TELLS US THAT THE FOURTH KINGDOM WILL BE PARTLY *STRONG
PARTLY *BROKEN

THIRDLY

👇

43] And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay,👉 they 👈 shall mingle 👉themselves 👈with the seed of men👈: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Daniel tells us here that they will mingle with the covenant of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron does not cleave with clay.

Who are the “they” and “them” of verse 43?

Well the answer is in the next verse

👇

44] And in the days of these 👉kings👈 shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed:

Verse 43 therefore reads as follows:
👇

And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay,👉 these kings 👈 shall mingle 👉themselves 👈with the seed of men👈: but these kings shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME SO FAR?

 

LET’S GO BACK TO VERSE 41

And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters’ clay, and part of iron, 👉 the kingdom shall be divided👈 …..

THE QUESTION IS:

WHO DIVIDED THE FOURTH EMPIRE?

HISTORY GIVES US THE ANSWER

👉The Western Empire of Rome, between the years A.D. 356 and 483, was divided into 10
divisions, or kingdoms by different barbarian tributes:

1. The Huns, in Hungary, A. D.356; 2. The Ostrogoths, in Mysia, 377; 3. The Visigoths, in Pannonia, 378; 4. The Franks, in France, 407; 5. The Vandals, in Africa, 407; 6. The Sueves and Alans, in Gascony and Spain, 407; 7. The Burgundians, in Burgundy, 407; 8. The Heruli and Rugii, in Italy, 476; 9. The Saxons and Angles, in Britain, 476; 10. The Lombards, in Germany, 483. Thus the kingdom was divided, as designated by the ten toes.

Simply put, we have here the main countries that would form Europe later in the twentieth century.

CONCERNING THE FOUR UNIVERSAL KINGDOMS
DANIEL 2 DOESN’T TELL US MORE, EXCEPT OF COURSE THAT GOD WILL PUT AN END TO THEM, TO ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM.

WE NEED TO GO TO CHAPTER 7 FOR MORE DEVELOPMENT AND DETAILS ON THIS FAMOUS FOURTH KINGDOM DIVIDED.
But first, we must be grounded in what Daniel 2 tells us, otherwise we’ll drift off in all directions.

SO, Proclaimer, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT Daniel 2 , iron and clay  especially and what Daniel say about iron and clay!

🙏

[Proclaimer]

The word ‘mixed’ is the word ‘arab’ in Aramaic. One leg of Rome became the western nations of Europe, perhaps the 10 kings. The other leg continued for another 1000 years as an empire and was eventually conquered by the Ottomans. People who try to put the USA into all this are wrong. The Beast that rises out of the Great Sea are around the Mediterranean. The USA is far from this location as is China.

[Berean]

Hi proclaimer

you
The word ‘mixed’ is the word ‘arab’ in Aramaic.

me

mixte

6151

Arabic

(Aramaic) corresponding to “Arabic” (6148); mélange: to mingle, to blend.

Arabic
6148
primitive root; to braid, that is, to intermix; technically, to barter; also or to give as security (as a kind of exchange): to pledge, (oneself) mix, to mingle, to mortgage, to occupy, to pledge, to stand surety, to undertake.

Proclaimer

This has nothing to do with Arabs or the Ottoman Empire.

YOU
“One leg of Rome became the western nations of Europe, perhaps the 10 kings. The other leg continued for another 1000 years as an empire and was eventually conquered by the Ottomans.”

me

What does Daniel say about the fourth empire?

40] And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: for as much as iron breaketh into pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break into pieces and bruise.

Here in verse 40, I don’t see any explanation for the two legs, saying: this leg represents this and the other leg represents that.

But rather, the strength of this fourth kingdom is highlighted:

“STRONG AS IRON” for as much as iron breaketh into pieces and subdueth all things…
….break into pieces and bruise.

For now, you need to keep this in mind, because here in Daniel 2, this is what is written about the fourth kingdom before its “divided” state.

You’ll have to go to Daniel 7 to learn more… but…
Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Review “iron and clay” and its “biblical” meaning before we see Daniel 7, if you wish.

[Proclaimer]

Daniel 2:43

And just as you saw the iron mixed with baked clay, so the people will be a mixture and will not remain united, any more than iron mixes with clay.

Historically, the Arabs are a mix of peoples, though they share a unifying language (Arabic) and cultural-linguistic identity that formed over time.

mixed מְעָרַב֙
(me·’a·rav) 6151: to mix (Aramaic) corresponding to the root of ereb

https://biblehub.com/lexicon/daniel/2-43.htm

[Berean]

@ Proclaimer

40] And the fourth kingdom will be strong as iron, for iron breaks and subdues all things, and like iron that breaks all these, it will be broken and shattered.
[41] And as you saw the feet and toes, part of potter’s clay and part of iron, the kingdom will be DIVIDED but in it will be the strength of iron, for you saw iron mixed with clay.

The Roman Empire is described by IRON

👉And here(V.41) we have AGAIN IRON. NUT WITH CLAY
SO WE REMAIN IN THE ROMAN EMPIRE.
CLAY AND IRON, THE TEXT TELLS US, MEANS
FIRSTLY THAT THE ROMAN EMPIRE WILL BE DIVIDED.

BY WHOM????

Think carefully about this BEFORE concluding without a solid basis.

[Proclaimer]

Both the nations of Europe from the western leg and the Ottoman Empire from the eastern leg were not as strong as the Roman Empire, but had some of the Roman Empire’s strength. There was a great mixing of people. The last time a strong beast tried to arise it also tried to unmix Europe. It was the attempted German Empire – the Third Reich. It failed. Never again will there be an empire here like the Roman Empire. However, in the very last days, a king will arise who is of the seventh or seven, but his reign will be short. The kingdom of God will destroy that king / empire.

[Berean]

We are in the time of the sixth head of the first beast of Revelation 13. Very soon, the seventh head (the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA) will take control of the world and force the entire world to worship and submit to the papacy.
This is what is stated in Revelation 13:11-18

Rev.14:

9)……If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
[11] And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
[12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

[Author]

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