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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 28 2011,08:05) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 26 2011,16:09) Ge 2:20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds of the air and all the beasts of the field.
But for Adam no suitable helper was found.
Ge 2:18 The LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.did this not meant that there was no other human for him or no female helper for him ?
It means there was not found a suitable helper for Adam within the Garden of Eden, where God placed Adam.It doesn't necessarily mean there were no other humans living outside of the Garden at that time.
MikeQuote It means there was not found a suitable helper for Adam within the Garden of Eden, where God placed Adam. It doesn't necessarily mean there were no other humans living outside of the Garden at that time.
Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Ge 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formedin those scriptures God says he created Man but not out of Eden but he put man in Eden when he was form and alive ,
so if God says that he formed man are you imply that this is the first or the second time ?
it seems to me there was not a second time but was the only time that God formed a man,NO
some question can rise in our mind like did Adam ad access to the out side of the area called EDEN was he a prisoner of the garden ?? ,I also understand from scriptures that there was only one area of land at that time ,and so Man could travel all the area ,not like today all separated continents ,
I believe Adam could go where he wanted to go ,and could see what was a good place to live and a bad place to live,or less attractive to live in.
in Gen 2;20 it says that Adam give names to ALL animal ,birds,and beasts in the field , WOULD THE ALL BE LIMITED TO AN AREA AND SO ALSO KEEP THE ANIMALS PRISONER TO THAT AREA
I do not think so.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2011,10:30) Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Ge 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formedin those scriptures God says he created Man but not out of Eden but he put man in Eden when he was form and alive ,
I simply don't know the answer, Pierre.Could it mean that God formed ALL OF MANKIND from the dust of the earth, and then plucked only ONE of them up and placed that ONE in the Garden?
I really don't know.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 28 2011,10:43) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2011,10:30) Ge 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
Ge 2:8 Now the LORD God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formedin those scriptures God says he created Man but not out of Eden but he put man in Eden when he was form and alive ,
I simply don't know the answer, Pierre.Could it mean that God formed ALL OF MANKIND from the dust of the earth, and then plucked only ONE of them up and placed that ONE in the Garden?
I really don't know.
peace,
mike
Mikeit does not say that he breathed into THEIR NOSTRILS,right
and he did not took rib of all the man he created to make a women for them all is it
their was only ONE man he created
Pierre
No, but it does say, “male AND female, He created THEM”. And only later does it say he put one of these men in the Garden, and made a helper out of the man's body.
Pierre, you seem defensive here. I am not claiming anything as fact, or pushing my current understanding on anyone. I'm only looking for insight into the questions I've raised.
And so far, you've offered no insight into the fact that the men in chapter 5 seem to be aged when they begin begetting offspring. Or none into the fact that Noah was 500 years old without children. Or the fact that his sons were all pushing 100 years old without children.
You originally offered up the possibility that humans started procreating at a very early age, and therefore there could have been thousands of “others” living at the time Cain was exiled.
I've shown you that procreating young doesn't seem to be the norm at all for that time period.
And there is no scriptural hint that the first three children of Adam and Eve weren't in fact: #1 – Cain, #2 – Abel, #3 – Seth.
You may be right when all is said and done. I was only hoping to gain more insight, not have your point of view shoved down my throat.
peace,
mikeQuote And so far, you've offered no insight into the fact that the men in chapter 5 seem to be aged when they begin begetting offspring. Or none into the fact that Noah was 500 years old without children. Or the fact that his sons were all pushing 100 years old without children. I find this very bizarre.
Mike, have you looked at any others in the Bible (other than Noah and his 3 sons) who had children where their ages are given?
Mike
Quote I was only hoping to gain more insight, not have your point of view shoved down my throat. 
this would be the last thing i would like to do
Pierre
Quote (david @ Aug. 27 2011,14:16) Quote And so far, you've offered no insight into the fact that the men in chapter 5 seem to be aged when they begin begetting offspring. Or none into the fact that Noah was 500 years old without children. Or the fact that his sons were all pushing 100 years old without children. I find this very bizarre.
Mike, have you looked at any others in the Bible (other than Noah and his 3 sons) who had children where their ages are given?
Hi David,Funny you should ask. I was just looking for a copy of the Book of Enoch, to see if it said somewhere that he was the firstborn of Jared; or if Methuselah was perhaps his firstborn.
I got caught up in a thread about Enoch that Happy Man started in 2002. And I've been reading that thread for the last half hour instead of continuing my research!
I started going through the names in Gen 5, to see if later those names were said to be firstborns. So far, I've found no information to that end.
I'll look for Enoch online, since the link t8 put in the thread I was reading has expired.
Perhaps someone else knows if Enoch was Jared's firstborn son, or it Methuselah was his firstborn son? That would add one or two more “late bloomers” to Noah and his sons.
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 27 2011,14:23) Mike Quote I was only hoping to gain more insight, not have your point of view shoved down my throat. this would be the last thing i would like to do
Pierre
Fair enough, my friend. I was joking with you anyway. Something else:
God's commandment was “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.”
Noah was a “righteous” man.
Is 3 children in 600 years being fruitful? I sense a mystery.
Hi David,
I've been confused about these things for quite a while now. And to address your “excellent post” from before, I consider the land where Cain was living to be sort of like the New Jerusalem of the future – where those welcomed in will be living in the presence of Jehovah and His Son. Those outside could never be “out of the presence” of God, for He sees all. But those inside are in the presence of God in a whole different way. They are closer to Him, and possibly have audience with Him, etc.
This is how I understand Cain being sent “out from the presence of God”. I believe that God made His presence felt where Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel were living, and obviously even conversed with them at that place from time to time. I think it was this “separation” from that “closeness” to God that Cain thought was the most unbearable part of his punishment. (That is just my opinion, as many scholars believe he was more worried about his carnal life being ended.)
That's why I wonder, even if many offspring were being born of young parents continuously, why would any of those offspring WILLINGLY leave the “presence of God” and be out wandering in the land of Nod by the time Cain was banished to there?
Was there something wrong with these “others” that made them WANT to leave the “presence of God” of their own volition, and therefore already be dwelling in the place that Cain considered an unbearable punishment?
Again, I'm not claiming to KNOW anything here. I'm only pointing out some of my confusion to you all and looking for any insight.
peace,
mikeMike
this is the LXX, of Gen;4;11-17
11 And now thou art cursed from the earth which has opened her mouth to receive thy brother’s blood from thy hand. 12 When thou tillest the earth, then it shall not continue to give its strength to thee: thou shalt be groaning and trembling on the earth. 13 And Cain said to the Lord God, My crime is too great for me to be forgiven. 14 If thou castest me out this day from the face of the earth, and I shall be hidden from thy presence, and I shall be groaning and trembling upon the earth, then it will be that any one that finds me shall slay me. 15 And the Lord God said to him, Not so, any one that slays Cain shall suffer seven-fold vengeance; and the Lord God set a mark upon Cain that no one that found him might slay him. 16 So Cain went forth from the presence of God and dwelt in the land of Nod over against Edem. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and having conceived sheNIV;
Ge 4:13 Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is more than I can bear.
Ge 4:14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”it seems it does not say the same thing, in verse 13
Pierre
As interesting as that is, I don't see how it sheds light on the topic of this thread. Am I missing something?
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,18:56) As interesting as that is, I don't see how it sheds light on the topic of this thread. Am I missing something? peace,
mike
Mikeif it is the LXX that is right then it could be that God has made Cain bear the total guilt of his sin by taking the live of Abel
the fact that he was taken away from Gods presence ,could just mean that now he will not be blessed in by living in what is easy ,because God says that now he will find it very hard to work the earth,
Pierre
But God already made man to toil on the earth after what Adam did. And it doesn't address the point we're discussing: WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,19:38) But God already made man to toil on the earth after what Adam did. And it doesn't address the point we're discussing: WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence?
Mikewell to me there is no others, than Adam offspring ,but I may be wrong on that one ,
but with imagination we can pull many things out of it
do not forget to tell me if you find the answer
Pierre
Adam and Eve
Cain
Abel
Seth (130 years after Adam; 5:3-5, another seed in place of Abel; 4:25)
Enosh (105 years after Seth was born)
Kenan (90 years after Enosh born)
Mahalalel (70 years after Kenan)
Jared (65 years….)
Enoch (162 years)
Methuselah (65 years)
Lamech (187 years)
Noah (182 years)
Shem/Ham/Japheth (Noah 500 years old, and by flood, 600)Looking at just this evidence, it seems like they were having a whole lot less children than I previously thought.
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 28 2011,03:05) t8 I don;t think that the Angels ever were like the Human beings, except those that came down to earth and married woman, and created Giants…
They already were created before God created man…. And to be with God they had to be Spirit Beings… IMO
Hi Irene. Thanks for your post.You used the word 'except' and then followed it by “those that came down to earth and married woman, and created Giants…”.
That means that you do at least believe that some were.
I remain open about this subject simply because we are not given details as to the creation of the angels. The consensus is to believe that they were created spiritual beings from their beginning. But what piece of information or what scripture provides the proof of this?
We know angels appear as men in scripture, and even the angel/s that rolled the stone from Christ's tomb are called man/men in other gospels. Look at the four accounts of that in the gospels. They are describes as angel, angels, man, and men. I need to check this however, I am going by memory.
And who appeared with Christ in the transfiguration? It was 2 men, and if we had not known their identity, then perhaps they would have been called angels. Interestingly enough, the word angel can be applied to men.
For all we know there were tribes of angels existing on different planets at some point. We just don't know because the bible's purpose is to not give us that sort of information.
One day we will know.
t8 True, the Bible doesn't say how the Angels were created… Neither does it show us how Jesus was created, when there was nothing in the beginning… But since God is Spirit and only Spirit can be with God, I still believe they were Spirit Beings. Of course I could be wrong in all of this…Both Jesus and the Angels are messengers for God, so they can appear as Human Beings… We have felt that also that two Angels saved our only Granddaughter when She jumped of the second floor Balcony, when She was only two years old….Two man walked away from Her… She was taken to the Hospital and there was not a scratch on Her….Your right one day we will know…Irene
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