Was Adam truly the FIRST man ever?

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 25 2013,12:55)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 24 2013,08:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 24 2013,17:32) Quote (barley @ Mar. 23 2013,21:46) Adam and Eve were the first man and woman. Cain was their first born and Abel the second born.   Seth was the third born. I agree with what you said above.  But if Seth was the third, and Able was dead before Seth was born, that only leaves Adam, Eve, and Cain, right? So who were the “others” that Cain was afraid of in the land of Nod? Hi Mike It doesn't say that there were others in the land of Nod? Can you show me in scripture. Genesis 4 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” Do you see how all these things Cain is worried about are in the future?  Cain is not saying that right now, as he's talking to God, he is hidden from God's presence, right?  Instead, he is saying that AFTER he LEAVES his current place of residence, THEN he WILL BE hidden from God's presence, right? And he's not saying that he is a restless wanderer RIGHT NOW, right?  Instead he's saying that AFTER he LEAVES, he WILL BE a restless wanderer in the land of Nod, right? And it is at this point, WHEN HE IS A RESTLESS WANDERER, that he is worried about “the others” who might find him and kill him. Ie:  He is NOT worried about someone finding him and killing him RIGHT THERE and RIGHT THEN – while he is talking with God.  He is worried about this happening AFTER he is banished out of God's presence.  All of these things:  “hidden from God's presence”, “being a restless wanderer”, and “someone finding and killing me”, are ALL things Cain is worried about happening AFTER he leaves to the land of Nod. At least that is the way I understand it.

Hi Mike,

I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him.
There was nothing stopping them from doing that in his mind. They would of been very angry. The lands were very close together in those days. Like the next suburb up.

I can't see anything concrete implying there were already people living in the land of Nod. If so, then why did Cain name the city Enoch?

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,22:27)

Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him.

WHAT OTHERS?

[journey42]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2013,09:10)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,22:27) Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him. WHAT OTHERS?

Hi Ed,

The other people he was obviously afraid of? Isn't that what this whole subject is about?

So it's obvious that there were more people than just Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain.

Just because God did not mention any other children from Adam and Eve, does not mean there were none. There had to be.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,05:27)

Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him.

I don't get that feeling from the words, journey. Are you saying that the others WOULDN'T have killed him if he stayed living among them?

[journey42]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:28)

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,05:27) Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him. I don't get that feeling from the words, journey.  Are you saying that the others WOULDN'T have killed him if he stayed living among them?

Hi Mike,

It doesn't say the others were going to kill him, just that he was afraid they would, obviously because of what he had done. But God said he wouldn't let them touch him.

This is because out of Cain's lineage, evil had to be continued for it to multiply.
He was banished for his evil, and therefore would not of had the blessings nor be inclined in the worship of God. I say it was Cain's children that multiplied and after time, it was the Sons of God (angels) that went into them. Cain's lineage.

[mikeboll64]

Okay journey. To me it sounds like Cain is afraid of the others who are already living in the land to where he is being banished.

But I clearly don't have the answers……. only questions.

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:21)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2013,09:10) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,22:27) Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him. WHAT OTHERS? Hi Ed, (1)The other people he was obviously afraid of?  Isn't that what this whole subject is about? (2)So it's obvious that there were more people than just Adam, Eve, Abel and Cain. (3)Just because God did not mention any other children from Adam and Eve, does not mean there were none.  There had to be.

Hi Journey42,

1) Yes, [[what a great non-answer]]!
2) It's not so obvious to me.
    So Mikes original question was: “WHO ARE THEY” <– sorry, I'm not yelling; I just want you to address the point.
3) Sure, “AFTER” Seth we would expect more children.
    THESE CHILDREN “COULD” BE WHO CAIN WAS AFRAID OF. (this is one possibility of who they are)
    But what SPECIFICALLY is option “B”?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:35)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 26 2013,12:28) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 25 2013,05:27) Hi Mike, I think he's afraid the others are going to come after him. I don't get that feeling from the words, journey.  Are you saying that the others WOULDN'T have killed him if he stayed living among them? Hi Mike, It doesn't say the others were going to kill him, just that he was afraid they would,  obviously because of what he had done.  But God said he wouldn't let them touch him. This is because out of Cain's lineage, evil had to be continued for it to multiply. He was banished for his evil, and therefore would not of had the blessings nor be inclined in the worship of God.  I say it was Cain's children that multiplied  and after time, it was the Sons of God (angels) that went into them.  Cain's lineage.

Hi Journey42,

1) Angelic half-breeds?
2) Adams offspring?
3) Cain's offspring?

I'm leaning towards “2” and/or “3”, but not “1”.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[journey42]

Quote

Hi Journey42, 1) Yes, [[what a great non-answer]]! 2) It's not so obvious to me.     So Mikes original question was: “WHO ARE THEY” <– sorry, I'm not yelling; I just want you to address the point. 3) Sure, “AFTER” Seth we would expect more children.     THESE CHILDREN “COULD” BE WHO CAIN WAS AFRAID OF. (this is one possibility of who they are)     But what SPECIFICALLY is option “B”

1.  Where you been Ed?
2.  I already said that they were Adam and Eve's other children. I'd say that they had more children after Cain.  It doesn't say how old Cain and Abel are.  They lived long lives in those days.  Plenty of time to have more children.
Only the two sons were mentioned because it involved the first murder.
3.  Who else would these children be?, but his brothers and sisters and possibly nieces and nephews and maybe their kids too.  How old do you have to be to have a child?  How many generations could you make if they were even a hundred years old when the first murder happened.  We don't know.

[journey42]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2013,16:05)

Quote

1) Angelic half-breeds? 2) Adams offspring? 3) Cain's offspring? I'm leaning towards “2” and/or “3”, but not “1”.

1) No, not yet. That would of come after Cain.
2) Maybe
3) Doubt it.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 26 2013,19:05)

Hi Journey42, 1) Angelic half-breeds? 2) Adams offspring? 3) Cain's offspring? I'm leaning towards “2” and/or “3”, but not “1”.

Um shouldn't you know? After all you pre-existed as Gabriel or someone else didn't you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 26 2013,10:40)

It doesn't say how old Cain and Abel are.  They lived long lives in those days.  Plenty of time to have more children.

Hi journey,

This is where my questions come in.  (Remember, I don't have the ANSWERS, only lots of QUESTIONS.   )

For example, if Cain and Abel lived a LONG time before Cain killed Abel, then why was Cain's first child born in Nod?  Shouldn't he have had many children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren by then?  

And why didn't Abel have children of his own by the time he died?  Surely “righteous Abel” would have had some righteous children whose lineage would have been traced in Genesis, right?

On the other hand, if Cain killed Abel when they were both very young, all that “time” in which they could have had lots of brothers and sisters disappears, right?

Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 26 2013,10:40)

How many generations could you make if they were even a hundred years old when the first murder happened.  We don't know.

If they were having child after child at young ages, there could have been many people by the time Cain was banished.  But look at Genesis 5, and the ages of the men when they had what I assume was their firstborn.  (I assume this because in each case, it talks about the person begetting other sons and daughters AFTER the one mentioned.  It doesn't specifically say they didn't have any BEFORE the one mentioned, but I find it interesting that Moses specifically recorded the word AFTER in each case.)

Also, look at the case of Noah and his sons.  Noah was 500 years old when he had his first child, right?  And all three of his children were over 100 years old and childless when they entered the ark.

None of this makes me think that they were having lots of children at a young age back then.

Also consider that God gave Eve Seth to REPLACE Abel, who had been killed.  Why this specific “replacement”, if Abel was only one of her hundreds of children?

I repeat that I don't know the answers.  These are just things that I think about.

peace,
mike

[jammin]

if the bible says that adam is the first man then stop arguing. this is just w waste of time.
do not act like you know all the things in the bible

[mikeboll64]

jammin,

Is someone forcing you to “waste your time” in this thread? If not, then please don't try to dictate which scriptural subjects hold an interest for other people, okay?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 30 2013,22:42)

jammin, Is someone forcing you to “waste your time” in this thread?  If not, then please don't try to dictate which scriptural subjects hold an interest for other people, okay?

Mike,

He is just reading the heading and not the content as I don't believe anyone has stated that Adam was not the first true man.

[mikeboll64]

I have point blank told jammin that no one here is claiming that Adam was NOT the first “adam”.

Sometimes he has selective “hearing”.

[mikeboll64]

Hey journey,

This is a snippet from Colter's “Urantia Book”, quoted in a different thread:

That the earlier traditions recognized pre-Adamic civilization is clearly shown by the fact that later editors, intending to eradicate all reference to human affairs before Adam’s time, neglected to remove the telltale reference to Cain’s emigration to the “land of Nod,” where he took himself a wife.

I don't claim to support the UB, or any of the claims found therein. I don't know enough about that book to make an informed decision. I do know that there are words in the UB that directly contradict words that Jesus himself was quoted as saying in scripture.

So my point in quoting this snippet is not to support the UB, but to point out that I'm not the first person who asked, How did Cain find himself a wife who was already living in the land of Nod?

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2013,05:35)

I have point blank told jammin that no one here is claiming that Adam was NOT the first “adam”. Sometimes he has selective “hearing”.

was there a man before adam?
yes or no?

[mikeboll64]

I believe there were “others” before Adam was created as the first “adam”.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 01 2013,12:55)

I believe there were “others” before Adam was created as the first “adam”.

then read it.
i can read in the bible that there was no man before adam.
that is what the bible says

if you do not believe that, you have a mind problem.
make your own bible

[Author]

Posts