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Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2013,20:49) In the Law of it is the Hebrews the children of the most high.
Yeah, but all the Hebrew “sons of God” married human women, Kerwin. So why make a point of mentioning that these particular “sons of God” went into “daughters of MEN”?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2013,20:49) Never the less I hear your interpretation. 
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:14) You don't buy it, a large flood after people living in the flood plain had been warned by a wise man to be careful?
Colter,I grew up in Davenport, Iowa. That city is next to, and sometimes IN, the Mississippi river.
The people who lived in the flood zone had houses built on stilts.
Can you imagine any of these people, who have lived there for a long time and experienced much flooding, laughing at the first guy who suggested building their houses on stilts?
Who in their right mind would laugh at that guy, knowing that it was a perfectly sensible idea? Instead, they would all pat him on the back for his great idea.
On the other hand, I would probably laugh at a guy who started building a huge boat and collecting animals if I lived on a dry plain, and there wasn't even a cloud in sight.
Btw, why do you keep bringing up Noah being drunk and naked in his own tent – as if it was some sin? Was there some law against that?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:22) The first clue Kerwin is that God is never disappointed in anything he has done………….
Why? If you were a good father and provided a nice meal for your son, and then he spit in your face – would YOU be disappointed?God created man in His image, hoping that man would do the right thing, and live by the instructions He gave them. Why shouldn't he get disappointed and angry when they constantly DON'T do those things?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:32) Smile, It makes sense if you realize that Adam and Eve were much older, 39,000 years, the new story fill's the genealogical gap and shortens time. They elevated themselves to Gods chosen people instead of Melchizedek's predicted people. Colter
I still say a flood story would not have been needed. If they wanted to link Abraham to Adam, and Adam really did live 39,000 earlier, then all they'd have to do is eliminate some of Adam's lineage.With or without the flood story, they could have shortened Adam's lineage, and linked him with Noah, and linked Noah with Abraham.
Do you see what I'm saying? The flood story would have been beside the point – and therefore wasn't necessary for linking Abraham to Adam.
Yet the UB says this is the reason for the “made up” flood story. Hmmmm…………
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,12:30) 2. I accept the Melchizedek covenant with the Most High, which bestows the favor of God on my faith, not on sacrifices and burnt offerings. But Abraham did believe halfheartedly, and even that was “counted for righteousness.”
Mel. is mentioned in Gen 14.But it is in Gen 15 where the word of Jehovah came to Abraham in a dream. And it was for believing THOSE WORDS of Jehovah (not the words of Mel) that Abraham was credited with righteousness.
And immediately after, according to 15:9, Jehovah asked Abraham to sacrifice a heifer, a goat, and a ram.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,08:33) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2013,20:49) In the Law of it is the Hebrews the children of the most high.
Yeah, but all the Hebrew “sons of God” married human women, Kerwin. So why make a point of mentioning that these particular “sons of God” went into “daughters of MEN”?Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 14 2013,20:49) Never the less I hear your interpretation.
Mike,You are not thinking like the people of that time.
Since the people who received the word are the sons of God then who are the ones that did not.
Eve actually named Cain after the fact she brought forth a man. She is not reported as stating anything of the like for her other children. He was the first born man. Seth ancestry is traced to God while Cain is the beginning of his line. It looks like both God and Adam disowned Cain and his descendants.
Kerwin,
I fail to see how your post addresses my post. The sons of God noticed that the daughters of men were good looking, and so took some of them and procreated with them.
How could these words be said about HUMAN men?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,21:38) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,02:06) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,19:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 15 2013,12:06) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 14 2013,05:38) He brought much ridicule upon himself by going up and down the river valley advocating that all houses be built of wood, boat fashion, and that the family animals be put on board each night as the flood season approached. He would go to the neighboring river settlements every year and warn them that in so many days the floods would come. Finally a year came in which the annual floods were greatly augmented by unusually heavy rainfall so that the sudden rise of the waters wiped out the entire village; only Noah and his immediate family were saved in their houseboat.
Surely Noah wasn't the only person living on that river that had noticed the ever increasing seasonal flooding, right?So why do you suppose these other riverside dwellers would laugh at Noah's most sensible idea?
Were they all so stupid that they allowed themselves to be washed away – and only Noah was smart enough to realize that building a FLOATING house could save them?
Colter, I have to say that it makes more sense that a massive, UNEXPECTED flood of global proportions would catch more of us off guard than a seasonal flooding that we are all used to year after year.
If the UB story is true, Noah must have lived among complete idiots.
I don't buy it.
You don't buy it, a large flood after people living in the flood plain had been warned by a wise man to be careful? But you buy a 500 year old Jewish man rounding up 2 of every living thing on earth, on a boat with his family, floating around for a year, then ending up passed out drunk and naked in his tent, and the world rapidly re-evolves?
? Seriously? The legend had been around for a long time, it was well known, that's how the Hebrew priest could incorporate it into their new miraculous, exaggerated history of the Israelite's.
Colter
Colter,Abraham came out of Mesopotamia where Noah(Utnapishtim)'s ark is an old story. The legend is far older than the Babylonian captivity.
I agree Kerwin, not only was the legend of Noah common, but so was the legend of Adam & Eve.When the Hebrews were compiling their new narratives, during the Babylonian captivity, they put the two together because Adam and Eve were so much older then their ability to trace their blood lines beyond Noah. They took a small flood in Mesopotamia and turned it into a world wide flood. Problem solved…..for a while.
Colter
Colter,What you are saying does not make since the legends of the Hebrew and almost every other people of the land had a variation of both legends that told to one another. They already had a written language as well. So why do you thing they would wait so long to write down legends that were already being repeated orally.
It makes more sence that Abraham brought both stories and a pre-Mosaic law out of Ur.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,12:14) Kerwin, I fail to see how your post addresses my post. The sons of God noticed that the daughters of men were good looking, and so took some of them and procreated with them.
How could these words be said about HUMAN men?
Mike,Quote The sons of God noticed that the daughters of men were good looking, and so took some of them and procreated with them. The sons of God, Israel, noticed that the daughters of men, Gentiles, were good looking, and so took some of them and procreated with them.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,13:40) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:14) You don't buy it, a large flood after people living in the flood plain had been warned by a wise man to be careful?
Colter,I grew up in Davenport, Iowa. That city is next to, and sometimes IN, the Mississippi river.
The people who lived in the flood zone had houses built on stilts.
Can you imagine any of these people, who have lived there for a long time and experienced much flooding, laughing at the first guy who suggested building their houses on stilts?
Who in their right mind would laugh at that guy, knowing that it was a perfectly sensible idea? Instead, they would all pat him on the back for his great idea.
On the other hand, I would probably laugh at a guy who started building a huge boat and collecting animals if I lived on a dry plain, and there wasn't even a cloud in sight.
Btw, why do you keep bringing up Noah being drunk and naked in his own tent – as if it was some sin? Was there some law against that?
Mike,* Look up the excavations at Ur, they found evidence of huge floods even though, as you point out, floods of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers are as common as floods on the Mississippi. So they had a large city built in a flood plain……like New Orleans is built bellow sea level.
Noah's flood was much larger than usual, he warned people about the potential of such a very large flood, I'm not sure why you have a problem with that.
I bring up the naked drunk issue because “supposedly” Noah was the only righteous man in all the world.
Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,14:31) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:32) Smile, It makes sense if you realize that Adam and Eve were much older, 39,000 years, the new story fill's the genealogical gap and shortens time. They elevated themselves to Gods chosen people instead of Melchizedek's predicted people. Colter
I still say a flood story would not have been needed. If they wanted to link Abraham to Adam, and Adam really did live 39,000 earlier, then all they'd have to do is eliminate some of Adam's lineage.With or without the flood story, they could have shortened Adam's lineage, and linked him with Noah, and linked Noah with Abraham.
Do you see what I'm saying? The flood story would have been beside the point – and therefore wasn't necessary for linking Abraham to Adam.
Yet the UB says this is the reason for the “made up” flood story. Hmmmm…………
The Adam & Eve story as well as his descendants was already known outside of Judaism.They couldn't whack off his descendants, they had to fill the gap.
Colter
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,13:44) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:22) The first clue Kerwin is that God is never disappointed in anything he has done………….
Why? If you were a good father and provided a nice meal for your son, and then he spit in your face – would YOU be disappointed?God created man in His image, hoping that man would do the right thing, and live by the instructions He gave them. Why shouldn't he get disappointed and angry when they constantly DON'T do those things?
Please see the life of Jesus, that's how a mature Son of God acts. Much greater then the OT God created in the image of the authors.Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,16:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2013,14:31) Quote (Colter @ Mar. 15 2013,07:32) Smile, It makes sense if you realize that Adam and Eve were much older, 39,000 years, the new story fill's the genealogical gap and shortens time. They elevated themselves to Gods chosen people instead of Melchizedek's predicted people. Colter
I still say a flood story would not have been needed. If they wanted to link Abraham to Adam, and Adam really did live 39,000 earlier, then all they'd have to do is eliminate some of Adam's lineage.With or without the flood story, they could have shortened Adam's lineage, and linked him with Noah, and linked Noah with Abraham.
Do you see what I'm saying? The flood story would have been beside the point – and therefore wasn't necessary for linking Abraham to Adam.
Yet the UB says this is the reason for the “made up” flood story. Hmmmm…………
The Adam & Eve story as well as his descendants was already known outside of Judaism.They couldn't whack off his descendants, they had to fill the gap.
Colter
Colter,I am with Mike on this one. Technically each and every man on earth is descended from Adam. The link you speak of is already established by that fact alone.
It looks like you are trying to say that Adam; whose name is Earth, the generic for man; lived 39,000 years instead of the shorter length attributed to him in Scripture. That claim disagrees with the timing of Scripture, as according to exact timing the Great Flood would have killed Adam well before that time.
Adam lived and died, the flood happened, Noah survived, Abraham left Ur, and other things occurred, each in their own time. I have no problem with leaving the years or names variables instead of a constants.
Lets look back at the time before the 3rd Night and Day that scientist claimed occurred around 2.5 billion years ago. Pangea appeared at the beginning of the third Night and Day as the crust cooled, 400? million years ago. The second half, when plants were created, they date to to 450 million years or so.
Genesis 1:9-10
King James Version (KJV)9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.Now the first part of the 6th Night and Day, scientist claim to have occurred 390 million years ago. The last half, when man was created, they date to 2.5 million years ago.
Scientists claim Pangea broke up on the sixth Night and Day between the time of beasts and the time of man, 200 million years ago.
The fall of man and the flood occurred between the time man was created and Abraham was called out of Ur.
Note: the times given by scientists are subject change and debate.
Note at ?: I find 300 million years as unlikely as land plants and animals are claimed to be older than that.
Kerwin,
I do respect your faith, Mike as well, I only wish that you would put that faith in the God who's works inspired the imperfect stories and histories instead of the claims of infallibility of the priest class. Only God is infallible, anything touched by human hands, political bias, chosen people prejudice can only be relatively right.
Put it this way, if the first parts of Genesis were not in the cannon and it was recently discovered like, with the dead see scrolls, I doubt that you would go to such self convincing lengths to bend and twist reality until the square peg fits into the round hole. If you had never heard the Noah flood story of Genesis and I was trying to convince you of it today, I think you would laugh at me.
Have any of you seen the findings at Gobekli Tepe? They validate claims made in the UB. And this ancient worship site in Turkey was deliberately covered up, likely done by a subsequent more primitive people who had some sort of superstitious awe of the site. It dates to 11,000 BC, Long before the bibles Adam.
We know humans were on earth long before Adam, so was death, because death in normal. The Hebrews incorporated the Persian ideas of original sin into their theology because in that age they believed Adam to be the first man.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/gobekli-tepe.html
Colter
Colter,
I was pointing out that if you ignore the discrepancy is dates scientist of today agree with much of the creation legend.
How did these primitive priest get this information correct?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2013,02:29) Colter, I was pointing out that if you ignore the discrepancy is dates scientist of today agree with much of the creation legend.
How did these primitive priest get this information correct?
KerwinIt seems you have added large numerical interpretations to the 6 day creation story that are not apparent to a common reading perhapse to justify the growing discrepancy between Genesis and material science,
I can appreciate these attempts but it's better to root out the errors of a more superstitious age while we continue to grow in spirit and minister to the soul of the scientist.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,23:29) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2013,02:29) Colter, I was pointing out that if you ignore the discrepancy is dates scientist of today agree with much of the creation legend.
How did these primitive priest get this information correct?
KerwinIt seems you have added large numerical interpretations to the 6 day creation story that are not apparent to a common reading perhapse to justify the growing discrepancy between Genesis and material science,
I can appreciate these attempts but it's better to root out the errors of a more superstitious age while we continue to grow in spirit and minister to the soul of the scientist.
Colter
Colter,The Night and Day of God's realm is not the night and day of earth. A night and day of heaven is when God calls it is a night and when he calls is a day.
I do not trust scientist as they have a history of being wrong and holding to that error for long lengths of time.
I see no reason to quibble over the differences as God has the power to make 1 billion years pass in a earth night and day and none would know the difference.
The creation legend of Scientists has many of the same events that the creation event of children of Israel does.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2013,00:29) The sons of God, Israel, noticed that the daughters of men, Gentiles, were good looking…………
So the daughters of the Hebrew people were NOT “daughters of adam“?How can this be, if the Hebrews were descendants of Adam?
Even if you don't believe the book of Enoch is legit, the story of the angels mating with humans, as recorded in Enoch, tells you how the people of that day understood Gen 6:4, right?
Do you know of anyone else who thinks the daughters of the Hebrews were not “daughters of adam”?
Quote (Colter @ Mar. 16 2013,04:09) I bring up the naked drunk issue because “supposedly” Noah was the only righteous man in all the world.
And? Was it considered “unrighteous” to be drunk and naked in your own tent?NOAH SAID:
Hey guys, these floods are getting larger every year. Don't you think we should make our homes floatable, just in case?NOAH'S NEIGHBORS REPLIED:
You must be off your rocker, Noah. Have you been drinking too much of that wine you make? Even though we all know that the floods are getting larger each year, your idea to take precautions and make preparations is stupid. We laugh at your stupidity! Ha, ha, ha!Does that scenario really make sense to you, Colter? Like I said before, if it happened the way the UB says, Noah lived among blooming idiots.
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