- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,18:47) 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” WHO exactly would have found Cain and killed him as he was wandering on the earth, out of the presence of Jehovah?
Which of Adam's offspring were already out there in the land of Nod, wandering away from the presence of Jehovah?
Mikefirst let not jump ,first Cain when to the land of Nod ,right ,then what happen ,he create a family,so have kids many ,and so on ,
would it be that their where animal big ones like tigers,lions,ect
and it was those that Cain fears ?could be ,but there was no humans beside them other than the children of Adam
Pierre
Mike
this is another view to the verses;;
CAIN kan (QA80YIN, from the Heb. word, to acquire, by popular etymology. Related to the word to forge in metal, hence, a smith), the eldest son of Adam and Eve who tilled the soil, whereas his younger brother Abel was a shepherd. Cain became a symbol of evil in that he did not exhibit faith in God’s revelation. He offered the fruit of the soil as a sacrifice, but God rejected him. Cain is described in the NT as being “of the evil one” (1 John 3:12). When Abel’s offering from his flocks was accepted by God, Cain became angry, enticed his brother to join him where they were alone, and killed him. God met him, asked about Abel, and pronounced a curse on Cain because of his sin (Gen 4:9-16). Cain was sent into the land of Nod (i.e. wandering) where he feared he might be in danger. God protected him by placing a mark upon Cain. The nature of the mark is unknown, but it may have been similar to tribal marks known in the Middle E. Cain built a city and became the progenitor of a large family with diverse occupations. The first tent-dwelling herdsmen, metal-workers, and musicians were from the line of Cain. Other peoples of the ancient world thought of the gods as the originators of the arts and crafts, but the Bible traces them to human development within the line of Cain. Cain was the first child of Adam and Eve, and he became the first murderer, illustrating the development of sin within the race of Adam.
C. F. PfeifferPierre
Gen.1:26-28 . This creation of man & women was before Adam ? Could it be that Adam is the first man created in the garden of Eden and this became the first of God's chosen people. Gen.2:5-8, I heard Haggie speak of it that way.
?Quote (thehappyman @ Aug. 25 2011,20:37) Gen.1:26-28 . This creation of man & women was before Adam ? Could it be that Adam is the first man created in the garden of Eden and this became the first of God's chosen people. Gen.2:5-8, I heard Haggie speak of it that way. ?
who Haggie ?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” WHO exactly would have found Cain and killed him as he was wandering on the earth, out of the presence of Jehovah?
Which of Adam's offspring were already out there in the land of Nod, wandering away from the presence of Jehovah?
These are two separate thoughts:You are driving me from the land
and
I will be hidden from your presense.
It's not as if Cain went somewhere where God could not find or see him. It's not as if there was one area on earth where God could not see. those 2 thoughts are connected, but not in the way you seem to suggest.
In answer to your second question, it could have been virtually anyone. We aren't given specifics regarding time here. Maybe Adam and Eve have had hundreds of children, and those children have 1000 children and those children have 10,000 children, and those children have 50,000 children!
They lived a long time. No tv to watch. No birth control. So, cain could have been referring to any combination of relative.
These verses simply arn't very specific.
And again, you make an assumption, that the actual area that Cain went to somehow disabled Jehovah's presense. It was Cain's actions that did that.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,10:52) Perhaps David. But maybe you and Pierre could help me out with this point:
Cain was banished to the land of Nod, hidden away from the presence of Jehovah. It was, in Cain's eyes, a punishment almost too much to bear.
So apparently, the favored children of Adam and Eve would not have been living in that place, right? They would have stayed close to their parents, so as NOT to be hidden from the presence of God, right?
So when Cain says that the OTHERS in the land of Nod will kill him, who are these “OTHERS”?
Why would any of the possibly hundreds of children of Adam and Eve already be living away from the presence of God – out wandering around in the land of Nod? Cain apparently found a wife there, right? Where did SHE come from? Was she one of Adam and Eve's daughters who just willingly moved to a place that was “hidden from the presence of God”? Why? Why would anyone else be out there wandering?
mike
I've already pointed this out, but will again:There was no specific place where one can go to become out of Jehovah's presense. It was cain's actions that did that.
I think of it this way. I live in a city. I wouldn't like to be banished to a village. Sure, people live in villages. I'm sure they have their reasons. I don't understand them. I don't want to go. But imagine I do something bad, so the authorities say: We are banishing you from the city, and we will be hidden from your presence. (In other words, you won't be able to see us again.)
And, again, cain says he will become a wanderer. It seems highly likely to me that “wanderer” became the name of that place AFTER cain wanderered around there, because of this special sentence put upon him.
The “others” are other sons, daughters, nieces, nephews, great, great great grandchildren, etc of adam and eve.
Reading your comments, you seem to be making one main mistake. You assume that going to that place was what made him be out of the presense of Jehovah. However, for what he did, he had to 1. leaving the land, and he would also 2. be out of Jehovah's presense. 2 separate things.
Quote (david @ Aug. 25 2011,17:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,11:47) 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” WHO exactly would have found Cain and killed him as he was wandering on the earth, out of the presence of Jehovah?
Which of Adam's offspring were already out there in the land of Nod, wandering away from the presence of Jehovah?
These are two separate thoughts:You are driving me from the land
and
I will be hidden from your presense.
It's not as if Cain went somewhere where God could not find or see him. It's not as if there was one area on earth where God could not see. those 2 thoughts are connected, but not in the way you seem to suggest.
In answer to your second question, it could have been virtually anyone. We aren't given specifics regarding time here. Maybe Adam and Eve have had hundreds of children, and those children have 1000 children and those children have 10,000 children, and those children have 50,000 children!
They lived a long time. No tv to watch. No birth control. So, cain could have been referring to any combination of relative.
These verses simply arn't very specific.
And again, you make an assumption, that the actual area that Cain went to somehow disabled Jehovah's presense. It was Cain's actions that did that.
Hi David,Excellent post!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,14:44) Quote (thehappyman @ Aug. 25 2011,20:37) Gen.1:26-28 . This creation of man & women was before Adam ? Could it be that Adam is the first man created in the garden of Eden and this became the first of God's chosen people. Gen.2:5-8, I heard Haggie speak of it that way. ?
who Haggie ?
Pierre! Haggie is a Minister on TV….. Evangelist…. Georg watches Him all the time….. Georg feels though that He is not right in a lot of Prophecy about Israel….. IreneQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,11:58) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 25 2011,18:47) 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” WHO exactly would have found Cain and killed him as he was wandering on the earth, out of the presence of Jehovah?
Which of Adam's offspring were already out there in the land of Nod, wandering away from the presence of Jehovah?
Mikefirst let not jump ,first Cain when to the land of Nod ,right ,then what happen ,he create a family,so have kids many ,and so on ,
would it be that their where animal big ones like tigers,lions,ect
and it was those that Cain fears ?could be ,but there was no humans beside them other than the children of Adam
Pierre
pierre,Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heaven and the earth, when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the heaven and the earth:
This scriptures says that there were two generations one from heaven which obviously were Adam's since God created him as a living soul, but sinned and became man like we are now.
Genesis 5:1This is the book of the generation of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him to the likeness of God
Then there were the existing sort of devilish humans,which were the generations of Satan's earth.
These are the discoveries which are making us aware who were on earth, before one of them(Lucifer's dead soul) was transformed into a living soul Adam.
These generations are still on earth.Mentioned by Jesus in John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Cain was the Father of Satan's generations as his firstborn through Adam's sin.
Cain took devilish women.These were the cananites which the Izraelites through God's order,couldn't have any kind of relation with.
Peace and Love in Jesus Christ
Charles
Hi All,
Let me say that I'm not claiming as a fact that there were men and women before Adam and Eve. I'm just trying to figure out what seem to be discrepancies in my mind.
Pierre has offered that Adam and Eve could have had many children by the time Cain killed Abel. This is true.
But look at Gen 5. Look at the age of all of these men when they begot what I assume was their firstborn.
25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters.
This doesn't specifically say that Methuselah didn't already have many children before Lamech. But it would be pure speculation to assume he DID have other children. The words “AFTER he became the father of Lamech, he had other sons and daughters” make me think that Lamech was his firstborn. I especially think this about Noah.
Noah was 500 years before he had any children. And we know this because Shem, Ham and Japeth seemed to have been his ONLY children. Either that, or the “many” children he begot before Shem just died in the flood, and apparently Noah wasn't too upset or worried about all these dead children of his.
But Noah had these three after he turned 500 years old. And although all three of them had wives by the time of the flood, none of them had any children of their own yet……………despite the fact that they were about 100 years old when the rains came.
Anyway, I don't know if this proves anything or not. But it seems to me that in those days, men had a good 100 years or more under their belts before they had their first child.
And that, to me, seems to fly in the face of the speculation that humans were breeding left and right from the time they were 14 or 15 years old, causing a rapid population boom.
peace,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2011,15:55) Hi All, Let me say that I'm not claiming as a fact that there were men and women before Adam and Eve. I'm just trying to figure out what seem to be discrepancies in my mind.
Pierre has offered that Adam and Eve could have had many children by the time Cain killed Abel. This is true.
But look at Gen 5. Look at the age of all of these men when they begot what I assume was their firstborn.
25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of Lamech. 26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters.
This doesn't specifically say that Methuselah didn't already have many children before Lamech. But it would be pure speculation to assume he DID have other children. The words “AFTER he became the father of Lamech, he had other sons and daughters” make me think that Lamech was his firstborn. I especially think this about Noah.
Noah was 500 years before he had any children. And we know this because Shem, Ham and Japeth seemed to have been his ONLY children. Either that, or the “many” children he begot before Shem just died in the flood, and apparently Noah wasn't too upset or worried about all these dead children of his.
But Noah had these three after he turned 500 years old. And although all three of them had wives by the time of the flood, none of them had any children of their own yet……………despite the fact that they were about 100 years old when the rains came.
Anyway, I don't know if this proves anything or not. But it seems to me that in those days, men had a good 100 years or more under their belts before they had their first child.
And that, to me, seems to fly in the face of the speculation that humans were breeding left and right from the time they were 14 or 15 years old, causing a rapid population boom.
peace,
mike
MikeQuote Anyway, I don't know if this proves anything or not. But it seems to me that in those days, men had a good 100 years or more under their belts before they had their first child. No,that is not what scriptures says ,it talks about male first born
no one count females ,so they could be 20 female for one male ,no one took track
Pierre
Quote (thehappyman @ Aug. 24 2011,20:37) Gen.1:26-28 . This creation of man & women was before Adam ? Could it be that Adam is the first man created in the garden of Eden and this became the first of God's chosen people. Gen.2:5-8, I heard Haggie speak of it that way. ?
Well, we are told that Isaac was Abraham's “only begotten son” in Hebrews 11:17. But we know that isn't the case. So we can assume there is special meaning behind “only begotten son” in this case.We could assume the same thing about Adam. He doesn't necessarily have to literally be the FIRST man God ever created. He could the the “first man” by special meaning, like Isaac was Abraham's “only begotten” by special meaning.
Adam could be the one man out of millions of mankind that God plucked up and put in the Garden of Eden. (Gen 2:8) And in this way, Adam became the first of “God's chosen people”, as your boy Haggie says.
Just like out of all of the people on earth, Noah was special. And Abraham was special. And Moses was special. This could have been the same with Adam. God could have picked just one out of the many men and women running around, placed that one in the Garden alone, and then later created a women specifically for him out of his own body.
I don't know the truth of the matter. I'm just spit-balling ideas here. I just find it awfully hard to believe that Adam and Eve had many offspring running around when Cain killed Abel. I find Eve's words, “God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him”, to be out of place if in fact she already had a huge family.
I find it out of place that only after Cain was banished is he mentioned as laying with his wife and begetting Enoch. And it doesn't seem that Abel left any descendants when he died. There would have been no need of Seth to continue the “righteous” line if Abel had children before he died.
Many mysteries in my mind.
Some day, I'll take a REAL hard look at this.Does anyone know if those mentioned in Gen 5 are the FIRSTBORNS of the men mentioned? Does the Bible say later, for instance, that Shem WAS Noah's firstborn? Or that Lamech WAS Methuselah's firstborn? Etc.
peace,
mikeQuote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:26) no one count females ,so they could be 20 female for one male ,no one took track
Hi Pierre,So you're implying that Methuselah could have had a bunch of daughters before begetting his first son at age 187? I wonder why they say “AFTER Lamech”, Methuselah had many more sons and daughters, but they say nothing about this BEFORE Lamech.
And what about Noah? Surely you don't think HE had daughters for 500 years, and said nothing to them about the coming destruction of the human race?
And we KNOW that Noah's boys didn't have children until they were 100 years old or older, right?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2011,16:31) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 25 2011,16:26) no one count females ,so they could be 20 female for one male ,no one took track
Hi Pierre,So you're implying that Methuselah could have had a bunch of daughters before begetting his first son at age 187? I wonder why they say “AFTER Lamech”, Methuselah had many more sons and daughters, but they say nothing about this BEFORE Lamech.
And what about Noah? Surely you don't think HE had daughters for 500 years, and said nothing to them about the coming destruction of the human race?
And we KNOW that Noah's boys didn't have children until they were 100 years old or older, right?
Mikeand look later the scriptures do not record the bad guys only the line to Christ ,
look at Jacob offspring and Esau his brother they separate and his story ends there,
the scriptures are not the record of men but of the will of God ,
Pierre
Pierre,
Do you concur that none of Noah's boys had children of their own until they were over 100 years old?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 26 2011,18:12) Pierre, Do you concur that none of Noah's boys had children of their own until they were over 100 years old?
Mikeyes ,for a good reason ,because Noah only had them after that God told him what to do to preserve him and his family ,so his sons where born at the beginning of that call ,and they must have been informed of what will happen ,
and so did not have any children
Pierre
I heard a teaching based on the scripture where God told man to replenish the Earth. The point being that to replenish something indicated that it had already been plenished (is there a such word?) beforehand.
Quote (t8 @ Aug. 26 2011,19:45) I heard a teaching based on the scripture where God told man to replenish the Earth. The point being that to replenish something indicated that it had already been plenished (is there a such word?) beforehand.
t8I only know this one
Ge 9:7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
Pierre
Quote This doesn't specifically say that Methuselah didn't already have many children before Lamech. But it would be pure speculation to assume he DID have other children. The words “AFTER he became the father of Lamech, he had other sons and daughters” make me think that Lamech was his firstborn. I especially think this about Noah. Mike, I disagree. There are thousands upon thousands of people not mentioned in the Bible. In the chronologies for example, they only list those that are needed to be mentioned, people of interest. Since Lamech was the line being followed, he was specifically mentioned.
We are interested in NOAH. Lamech is mentioned because it was through his line that we come to Noah.25 And Me‧thu′se‧lah lived on for a hundred and eighty-seven years. Then he became father to La′mech. 26 And after his fathering La′mech Me‧thu′se‧lah continued to live seven hundred and eighty-two years. Meanwhile he became father to sons and daughters. 27 So all the days of Me‧thu′se‧lah amounted to nine hundred and sixty-nine years and he died.
28 And La′mech lived on for a hundred and eighty-two years. Then he became father to a son. 29 And he proceeded to call his name Noah,This is all about the geneology. If someone else became father to Noah, they would have been mentioned. (If someone before Lamech became father to Noah, they would have been mentioned. If someone after Lamech, then they would have been named.)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
