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- journey42,Mar. wrote:
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Quote The earth is already orbiting around the sun from day one, or there would be no evening or morning. This is how we get our days. Sorry, need to correct this. The earth orbiting around the sun is one year. One day is one spin of the earth.
Hi Mike
Yes, new mouse, new battery. Can't work out why.
Quote I very rarely post a greeting. If you ever don't see one from me, just pretend that it's there, because it is implied. 
Thanks Mike, I don't mind.Quote Also, you don't have to tackle that long list I posted all at once. Just start with #1, and post your ideas about it. Then we can discuss your ideas about the other numbers, one at a time.
Ok, I'll have a go. I'm looking forward to discussing this because it raises some questions I've never heard beforeQuote (journey42 @ Mar. 04 2013,11:15) Genesis 1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.The earth is already orbiting around the sun from day one, or there would be no evening or morning. This is how we get our days.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for DAYS, and YEARS.
Hi Journey42,The Earths rotation (or axes spin) begun on Day 1,
the Earths orbit (around the sun) began on Day 4.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike
We have to do a bit of detective work here!
Quote 1. Cain was banished and afraid of “the others” in the land of Nod, who would kill him. Who were these “others”?
We always picture, just Cain and Abel and no other children. I know i did. We picture them as young also. We don't know how old they both were when Cain killed Abel, but if there were others, it reveals that they are mature brothers.Abel must of already started multiplying long before he was killed. They must of had quite a few sisters also that are not mentioned. Abel must of produced children with his sister(s). Adam was 130 when he had Seth. We don't know how old Adam was when he had Cain and Abel, but if he had them in his 30's say, there would be plenty of time for many of generations. (The sisters were not mentioned.) I'd say that the ones who would of seeked revenge were of Abels descendants.
But that leaves the question of why would Abel have children and not Cain before the murder?
Could it be that Abel was blessed, and not Cain. How did they know that Abel's sacrifice was respected by God, and Cain's was not? Was Abel blessed with children and not Cain? Was this the reason why Cain was bitter? These are just assumptions, but could it be the reason for Cain's jealousy. Cain could of saw that his brother was fruitful, and he was not. He must of seen something to be jealous.
We can look into the book of Enoch and see what it says, in hope of some more light.
ENOCH Chapter 85
…..I saw in a vision on my bed, and behold a bull came forth from the earth (ADAM), and that bull was white; and after it came for a heifer(EVE) and along with this (latter) came forth two bulls (CAIN & ABEL), one of them black (CAIN) and the other red (ABEL). And the black bull (CAIN) gored the red bull (ABEL). But that black bull (CAIN) grew and that heifer (THE WOMAN CAIN WOULD MARRY) went with him (SO THIS WOMAN FOLLOWED CAIN TO THE LAND OF NOD WHERE CAIN BUILT A CITY AND CALLED IT ENOCH)Genesis 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
It doesn't say that theres people already there in the land of Nod, but whoever find's him.
I'll leave it at this for now, and see where it takes us.
Journey,
Scripture literally states it was the fourth night and day that the Sun came to light the sky and divided the earths day and night.
How do you justify placing it on the first night and day instead?
Evidence:
Genesis 1:14-19
King James Version (KJV)14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.Journey,
It seems you are confused because you assume that the night and day God created with his Word, and not using the Sun and moon to divide, is earth's night and day.
What basis do you have for that belief?
Note: even in our solar system different planets have different nights and day.
Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 04 2013,06:55) I'd say that the ones who would of seeked revenge were of Abels descendants. But that leaves the question of why would Abel have children and not Cain before the murder?
Could it be that Abel was blessed, and not Cain.
Hi journey,Why do you assume Abel had children? He is called “righteous Abel” by both Jesus and Paul in the NT, while Cain was unrighteous.
Why then would we have the genealogy of Cain, but not one mention of the offspring of “righteous Abel”?
Instead, we are told about the offspring of Cain, and Seth……. no one else.
Genesis 4:25
And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.To me, this seems like there was Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel. Once Abel was killed, God granted Eve Seth, as a REPLACEMENT for Abel.
Why a replacement, if Abel already had a righteous line of offspring to follow in his footsteps? And where is the mention of this righteous line?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2013,06:31) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2013,15:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 03 2013,13:49) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2013,00:53) Giants are 3 dimensional and the increase in size is in all three dimensions. I read about the cube root law on a few forums, where it was credited to Galileo.
Hmmmm…………I'm going to check that out sometime. It still doesn't add up to me.
A four foot tall person might weigh 100 pounds soaking wet. But would an 8 foot tall person really weigh 800 pounds?
How much do those 7+ basketball players weigh? Surely not 800 pounds.
Interesting.
Mike,Leonid Stadnyk was recorded at 8' 5″ and 440lbs using the cube root law a corresponding 6 foot man would be 160 lbs.
A 4' tall man would be 47 lbs. I believe that measurement is on the light side.
Looking at Leonid Stadnyk's pictures it appears his legs are longer in proportion to his body than is considered normal.
I'm by no means a mathematician, but I think there's an obvious flaw with the cube root law.My height has doubled since the time I was 5 or 6, and my weight has done the same.
If you figure a 3 foot tall 6 year old weighs 80 pounds, the cube root law would have the 6 foot tall adult verson of that kid weighing 640 pounds.
Something's wrong with that math.
Mike,Body structure differences need to be taken into account when applying it.
Sun Ming-Ming is 7' 9″ tall and weighs 370lbs.
Hussain Bisad is 7' 7″ tall and weighs 460lbs.
Using the 18″ cubit these men are about 5 cubits tall. A 1 Enoch giant is 60 times higher and over looks one of the largest dinosaurs by a factor of 5. If you multiplied the inbetween weight of 400 lbs by the ratio of height difference you come up with 24,000 which is well under the 84 ft tall, 150 foot long, 200,000 lb Seismosaurus.
The giants of Scripture are a whole lot shorter and King Og's bed was made sturdy in order to handle his weight.
Kerwin,
I'm telling you that I was about 80-100 lbs when I was three feet tall. Now I'm almost 6 feet tall, and weigh 175 lbs.
The cube root law has a flaw, because I didn't octuple my weight when I doubled my height.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 05 2013,11:20) Quote Journey, It seems you are confused because you assume that the night and day God created with his Word, and not using the Sun and moon to divide, is earth's night and day.
Hi Kerwin, No that's not what I am saying.
When God said “Let there be light” on the first day,
where did this light come from?
The sun obviously.When God said the evening and the morning were the first day, there was already day and night.
The earth has already spun once, and now starts to rotate around the sun. (will take one year to complete it's full cycle)
The day and night are already there from day one, But there is no LIGHT for the night. This is what God did on the fourth day. He gave the night LIGHTS (stars, moon) to shine upon the earth.
ON DAY 1
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night, And the evening and the morning were the first day.The sun is existing, there is light for day, and darkness for night, but there is no light for the night.
I know it's hard, it took me a while to understand.
Journey,
Quote When God said “Let there be light” on the first day,
where did this light come from?
The sun obviously.There are many sources of light in our universe alone but many of them including the Sun are written to have been created on the forth day.
Do you believe heaven has a night and day and a source or sources of light?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,07:14) Kerwin, I'm telling you that I was about 80-100 lbs when I was three feet tall. Now I'm almost 6 feet tall, and weigh 175 lbs.
The cube root law has a flaw, because I didn't octuple my weight when I doubled my height.
Mike,I believe your memory faulty on this matter as:
Quote it is possible to say that a “normal” 6-year-old boy should weigh about 46 pounds and be about 3 feet, 9 inches tall. Here is my source.
Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 04 2013,22:41) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 04 2013,11:15) Genesis 1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.The earth is already orbiting around the sun from day one, or there would be no evening or morning. This is how we get our days.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for DAYS, and YEARS.
Hi Journey42,The Earths rotation (or axes spin) begun on Day 1,
the Earths orbit (around the sun) began on Day 4.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Not necessarily“In the beginning, GoD created the heavens and the earth”
I would understand this verse to be, like the Big Bang, GOd creating matter, everything.
Think of it like a painter throwing all his paint onto a canvass. And once the paint is there, he will play with it and fine tune it.
As for the creation of day and night, for me, it seems that these days are viewed in the order that they would appear to a person if they were on earth.
For instance, when he said let there be light, this could have just been a clearing of the atmosphere so that light now reached the ground of the earth…and not meaning that he popped the sin into existence at that moment.
1:1 just says that God created the universe, including earth. Then, we focus on the earth and look at the order that things appeared in, from the vantage point of the earth.
Let there be light does not exactly mean that light was created, but that light was present.
e.g., a primitive Earth may have been covered in thick cloud from volcanic eruptions and at some point, light is able to penetrate the atmosphere and makes it suitable for life.
Just saying that there is more than one way to look at this.
There are just too many possibilities when looking at the creation account in Genesis because the text is not descriptive enough. We get a rough outline of creation in one page. Saying that you know what the gaps are is futile.
So here are a few things to think about.
God created or transformed Earth in six days. This could mean 6 literal Earth days where God is creating a the speed of light, 6 thousands years where God is creating at the speed of light, or 6 stages, where the time could be much greater. That verse that says that one day is like a thousand years is true. The keyword is LIKE. This is not a scientific measurement and I think too many think it is.
Also an interesting fact. When you travel faster toward light, light slows down and when you travel slower light speeds up. So space and time are really the x and y axis on a graph but in 4th dimension speak, like height and width are the x & y axis for 2 dimensions. So if I travel toward an axis point on the y axis, it will take longer if I also move along the x axis. This appears to also be the case with space and time.
That is why light always travels at the same speed no matter how fast you are travelling. So you cannot make light travel faster by shining a bright torch out of a space ship that is travelling very fast.
Okay I might be wandering off topic a bit. But I find this stuff interesting and some mainstream interpretations of the creation account in Genesis to be lame.
Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 05 2013,14:14) kerwin,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Journey, It seems you are confused because you assume that the night and day God created with his Word, and not using the Sun and moon to divide, is earth's night and day.
Hi Kerwin, No that's not what I am saying.
When God said “Let there be light” on the first day,
where did this light come from?
The sun obviously.When God said the evening and the morning were the first day, there was already day and night.
The earth has already spun once, and now starts to rotate around the sun. (will take one year to complete it's full cycle)
The day and night are already there from day one, But there is no LIGHT for the night. This is what God did on the fourth day. He gave the night LIGHTS (stars, moon) to shine upon the earth.
ON DAY 1
Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night, And the evening and the morning were the first day.The sun is existing, there is light for day, and darkness for night, but there is no light for the night.
I know it's hard, it took me a while to understand.
Hi Journey42,The orbit around the sun began on Day 4, not on Day 1.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Mar. 05 2013,17:11) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 04 2013,22:41) Quote (journey42 @ Mar. 04 2013,11:15) Genesis 1:5 And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Genesis 1:8 And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Genesis 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
Genesis 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Genesis 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Genesis 1:31 And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.The earth is already orbiting around the sun from day one, or there would be no evening or morning. This is how we get our days.
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night, and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for DAYS, and YEARS.
Hi Journey42,The Earths rotation (or axes spin) begun on Day 1,
the Earths orbit (around the sun) began on Day 4.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Not necessarily“In the beginning, GoD created the heavens and the earth”
I would understand this verse to be, like the Big Bang, GOd creating matter, everything.
Think of it like a painter throwing all his paint onto a canvass. And once the paint is there, he will play with it and fine tune it.
As for the creation of day and night, for me, it seems that these days are viewed in the order that they would appear to a person if they were on earth.
For instance, when he said let there be light, this could have just been a clearing of the atmosphere so that light now reached the ground of the earth…and not meaning that he popped the sin into existence at that moment.
1:1 just says that God created the universe, including earth. Then, we focus on the earth and look at the order that things appeared in, from the vantage point of the earth.
Hi David and T8,What was God doing on Day 4 then?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgmikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Hi MikeQuote Hi journey, Why do you assume Abel had children? He is called “righteous Abel” by both Jesus and Paul in the NT, while Cain was unrighteous.
I'm only assuming because Cain had no offspring until he was banished. It is clear there are others around, therefore where else would they come from? Unless there are other sons not mentioned before Seth, but I don't think that's the case. This leaves there being daughters born maybe after Abel, and if Abel didn't father anyone, then is it possible the daughters offspring reproduced with each other, but who fathered Adam's daughters children? This would leave Abel, or Adam in my opinion, and not anyone else at this stage (nor fallen angels yet)Quote Why then would we have the genealogy of Cain, but not one mention of the offspring of “righteous Abel”?
Good question Mike. I don't know and can't answer this. Now it's pointing to Adam fathering his daughters children. Eeek.Quote Instead, we are told about the offspring of Cain, and Seth……. no one else.
Yes, and they had many more children who were not recorded either. So just the three main sons mentioned.Quote To me, this seems like there was Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel. Once Abel was killed, God granted Eve Seth, as a REPLACEMENT for Abel.
My mum had a son. She had a daughter after him. She lost her son many years later, and then had another child in her old age to replace that son she lost. Could it be God was comforting Eve with another son to take away her sadness?Quote Why a replacement, if Abel already had a righteous line of offspring to follow in his footsteps? And where is the mention of this righteous line?
Yes there is no mention.There's a lot of questions which I can't answer 100%, but only guess. My answers are not gospel, just trying to sort it out in my head
Hi Journey42,
Why would Eve complain about no offspring, if Abel had some?
which, by the way, none are mentioned anywhere in Scripture.“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called
his name Seth: For God, said Eve, hath appointed me another
SEED instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.” (Genesis 4:25)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
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