Was Adam truly the FIRST man ever?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,19:50)

so I do not share your view on this my friend

I can live with that.  

I do find it interesting that in all these pages, only David has said, Hmmmm……… that's interesting.  I've never noticed that before.

It seems like the rest of you don't even find it the least bit interesting that God gave Eve Seth to REPLACE Abel.  Or that neither of those first two boys had any children of their own at the time Abel was killed.

Or that Noah was 500 before he had his first child.  Or that all three of Noah's children were over 100 before they had their first children.

It's like the only way you can wrap your head around “the others” is by INSISTING that Adam and Eve were multiplying like rabbits, and their children after them were doing the same.

But that understanding simply doesn't match the ages of the men in Gen 5, who are said to have begotten other sons and daughters AFTER the son who was mentioned.  It is never said that they had others BEFORE that first one, right?

Anyway, like t8 pointed out, my understanding is nothing but speculation, as is yours.

I just would have been happier if more of you had been like David, who apparently listened to the things I pointed out before stubbornly insisting upon the “breeding like rabbits” scenario.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,10:52) The “little-brained humanoids” were sexually compatible with Cain, the “charlton”, but they were not called “charltons” like Cain and his father. did God say HUMANs are animals?

jammin,

Perhaps you are a descendant of one of those “little-brained humanoids” that I wrote about.  It would sure explain a lot!  

[Proclaimer]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:37)

Quote I am going by the fact Noah was 500 years old before he had his firstborn.  And all three of his children were childless at the age of 100+ years. you know what i find curious is that all the first born of those mention in scriptures are only male descends,I can not see one female by name ,can you ???not even after their first born

There is a good point in there. A case to be made that not all who are born are mentioned.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:01)

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 25 2013,22:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2013,10:52) The “little-brained humanoids” were sexually compatible with Cain, the “charlton”, but they were not called “charltons” like Cain and his father. did God say HUMANs are animals? jammin, Perhaps you are a descendant of one of those “little-brained humanoids” that I wrote about.  It would sure explain a lot!

There is another explanation, and again sssssspeculation.

God planted a seed and it grew wheat. Satan planted a seed and it grew tares.

God let them grow together until the harvest.

The wheat are the Children of God, they were planted by God and the tares were planted by the Devil.

Perhaps this is a literal seed. In that there are two kinds of humans. In support of this idea (although I am not inclined to support this view) are the sons of God who came down and produced beings called the Nephilim. And according to Enoch, they also sinned against the animals too. Perhaps mixing DNA to create dinosaurs and the like.

Again, speculation which is easy to do when scripture doesn't fully explain something.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 27 2013,05:09)

T8…..With the imagaination you Preexistences have, you guys could very well could make good “science fiction” movies   peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

Chur.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 25 2013,23:21)

If our destiny is to become like the angels, when were angels once like us? Were they physical beings living on a planet somewhere and graduated to Spiritual bodies and able to traverse the heavens? Is this why the sons of God were able to come down and have relations with the woman of men. Even though angels do not pro-create, perhaps their former bodies were able to?

From the Book of Enoch:

Chapter 15
3 You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.

4 These however die and perish.

5 Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.

6 But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.

7 Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2013,17:06)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,15:37) Quote I am going by the fact Noah was 500 years old before he had his firstborn.  And all three of his children were childless at the age of 100+ years. you know what i find curious is that all the first born of those mention in scriptures are only male descends,I can not see one female by name ,can you ???not even after their first born There is a good point in there. A case to be made that not all who are born are mentioned.

But still doesn't explain why it is directly said in scripture that AFTER the one mentioned, the father begat other sons and daughters.

It is never said that the father begot other sons and daughters BEFORE the son who was mentioned by name.

Why do you suppose that is?  Even with Adam this is the case.  AFTER he begot Seth, he had other sons and daughters.

To me, that seems an odd statement if Adam and Eve ALREADY HAD a bunch of “other sons and daughters” BEFORE Seth.

[Proclaimer]

Cheers Mike. Good point. I have by default understood Heavenly Angels to have been created that way from the beginning too. But I like to challenge even that which I believe. Sort of asking myself questions and testing what I consider to be taken for granted.

So I will continue. Could Adam also been spiritual and possessing eternal life? Yes he had flesh, but then we get back into the heavenly body debate as to what the spiritual body is like I suppose.

When angels come to Earth, they appear as men to men. This is the bit that I am trying to comprehend.

Can they transform their body, do they have a body like ours but in heavenly glory like Moses and Elijah and Jesus, or are they able to go back to abodes that they may have had before being given spiritual abodes.

And sexual relations with woman? Sons of God do not have wives, yet some did.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:17)

But still doesn't explain why it is directly said in scripture that AFTER the one mentioned, the father begat other sons and daughters. It is never said that the father begot other sons and daughters BEFORE the son who was mentioned by name. Why do you suppose that is? Even with Adam this is the case. AFTER he begot Seth, he had other sons and daughters. To me, that seems an odd statement if Adam and Eve ALREADY HAD a bunch of “other sons and daughters” BEFORE Seth.

To be honest, I haven't done the math here. But I certainly think that not all are mentioned. But yeah, it seems that the first would be mentioned. Although if they were daughters, then they might not. That gives some room for others right there.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2013,17:10)

Perhaps this is a literal seed. In that there are two kinds of humans.

I don't agree with “two kinds of humans“, t8, but you've got me thinking.

I agree with scripture that Adam was the first of the species known as “adam”.

But what about the Nephilim? Were they considered “adam-kind” – or a different species?

Does anybody here think the Nephilim were the same species as “adam”?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2013,17:22)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:17) But still doesn't explain why it is directly said in scripture that AFTER the one mentioned, the father begat other sons and daughters. It is never said that the father begot other sons and daughters BEFORE the son who was mentioned by name. Why do you suppose that is?  Even with Adam this is the case.  AFTER he begot Seth, he had other sons and daughters. To me, that seems an odd statement if Adam and Eve ALREADY HAD a bunch of “other sons and daughters” BEFORE Seth. ………it seems that the first would be mentioned. Although if they were daughters, then they might not. That gives some room for others right there.

Okay then.  Let's say that Adam and Eve had lots of daughters before God gave Eve Seth to replace Abel.

Who procreated with those daughters to produce the mulitude of human beings that the rest of the people on this thread just assume were there when Cain killed Abel?

Surely it wasn't Cain or Abel, for Abel died childless, and Cain had his firstborn after he had been banished.

Was Adam sexing up all of these daughters that he and Eve had, and producing even more daughters, since no sons are mentioned?

Are “the others” that Cain was afraid of really just a bunch of his sisters?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:23)

Does anybody here think the Nephilim were the same species as “adam”?

I don't think so for the same reason DNA wise we are not Gorillas.

They are described as different to us, meaning their gene pool was not the same as ours, but like other apes, we had most code in common.

Also, these sons of God that Enoch speaks about as sinning with woman and animals. Was this the first time this ever happened.

THe flood was done to destroy these works of evil. And later Jesus was sent to destroy the works of evil leading eventually to all sin being weeded out in time.

Before Jesus came, before the flood, and before Adam, there was still sin and evil. Who knows what works they were up to.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:30)

Surely it wasn't Cain or Abel, for Abel died childless, and Cain had his firstborn after he had been banished.

Okay, like i said, I haven't done the math.

If that is what is written, then there is some explaining to do.

[mikeboll64]

See?  That's all I'm asking for!  

It irks me that everyone else just acts like these odd things aren't odd at all.

Well, THEY ARE!  And I might not have the correct explanation, but at least I realize there IS some explaining to do.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (t8 @ Feb. 26 2013,17:52)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,13:23) Does anybody here think the Nephilim were the same species as “adam”? I don't think so for the same reason DNA wise we are not Gorillas.

Anybody else? Are Nephilim the same species as “adam”?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,04:56)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 25 2013,19:50) so I do not share your view on this my friend I can live with that.   I do find it interesting that in all these pages, only David has said, Hmmmm……… that's interesting.  I've never noticed that before. It seems like the rest of you don't even find it the least bit interesting that God gave Eve Seth to REPLACE Abel.  Or that neither of those first two boys had any children of their own at the time Abel was killed. Or that Noah was 500 before he had his first child.  Or that all three of Noah's children were over 100 before they had their first children. It's like the only way you can wrap your head around “the others” is by INSISTING that Adam and Eve were multiplying like rabbits, and their children after them were doing the same. But that understanding simply doesn't match the ages of the men in Gen 5, who are said to have begotten other sons and daughters AFTER the son who was mentioned.  It is never said that they had others BEFORE that first one, right? Anyway, like t8 pointed out, my understanding is nothing but speculation, as is yours. I just would have been happier if more of you had been like David, who apparently listened to the things I pointed out before stubbornly insisting upon the “breeding like rabbits” scenario.

Mike

Lk 3:34 the son of Jacob,
the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham,
the son of Terah, the son of Nahor,
Lk 3:35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu,
the son of Peleg, the son of Eber,
the son of Shelah,
Lk 3:36 the son of Cainan,
the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem,
the son of Noah, the son of Lamech,
Lk 3:37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch,
the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel,
the son of Kenan,
Lk 3:38 the son of Enosh,
the son of Seth, the son of Adam,
the son of God.

Ge 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth.
Ge 5:4 After (1)Seth was born, Adam lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:5 Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:6 When Seth had lived 105 years, he became the father of(2) Enosh.
Ge 5:7 And after he became the father of Enosh, Seth lived 807 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:8 Altogether, Seth lived 912 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:9 When Enosh had lived 90 years, he became the father of Kenan.
Ge 5:10 And after he became the father of(3) Kenan, Enosh lived 815 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:11 Altogether, Enosh lived 905 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:12 When Kenan had lived 70 years, he became the father of(4) Mahalalel.
Ge 5:13 And after he became the father of Mahalalel, Kenan lived 840 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:14 Altogether, Kenan lived 910 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:15 When Mahalalel had lived 65 years, he became the father of(5) Jared.
Ge 5:16 And after he became the father of Jared, Mahalalel lived 830 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:17 Altogether, Mahalalel lived 895 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:18 When Jared had lived 162 years, he became the father of(6) Enoch.
Ge 5:19 And after he became the father of Enoch, Jared lived 800 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:20 Altogether, Jared lived 962 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:21 When Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of (6)Methuselah.
Ge 5:22 And after he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:23 Altogether, Enoch lived 365 years.
Ge 5:24 Enoch walked with God; then he was no more, because God took him away.
Ge 5:25 When Methuselah had lived 187 years, he became the father of(7) Lamech.
Ge 5:26 And after he became the father of Lamech, Methuselah lived 782 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:27 Altogether, Methuselah lived 969 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:28 When Lamech had lived 182 years, he had a son.
Ge 5:29 He named him (8)Noah and said, “He will comfort us in the labor and painful toil of our hands caused by the ground the LORD has cursed.”
Ge 5:30 After Noah was born, Lamech lived 595 years and had other sons and daughters.
Ge 5:31 Altogether, Lamech lived 777 years, and then he died.
Ge 5:32 After Noah was 500 years old, he became the father of (9)Shem,(10) Ham and (11)Japheth.

Ge 6:1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,

according to the count there were only 12 males that produced an offspring ;no female record of any ,many sons not taking in account ;but Luke must have taken this record to show Christ ancestry coming from Adam and be son of God ,
so in the speculation what seems their could not be the real thing but truth as it his spell out ;and it seems that their was many more women than men ,because the angel were looking at them and it looks it was not one angel but many ,

now if we look at Cain offspring record;;
Ge 4:16 So Cain went out from the LORD'S presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.
Ge 4:17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.
Ge 4:18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.
Ge 4:19 Lamech married two women, one named Adah and the other Zillah.
Ge 4:20 Adah gave birth to Jabal; he was the father of those who live in tents and raise livestock.
Ge 4:21 His brother’s name was Jubal; he was the father of all who play the harp and flute.
Ge 4:22 Zillah also had a son, Tubal-Cain, who forged all kinds of tools out of bronze and iron. Tubal-Cain’s sister was Naamah.

THERE HIS NO AGE SHOWN HERE WHY

Nephilim   it mean giant ,but it could mean beast or men or both

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,18:39)

Nephilim it mean giant ,but it could mean beast or men or both

But are/were they the same species as “adam”?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,06:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,18:39) Nephilim   it mean giant ,but it could mean beast or men or both But are/were they the same species as “adam”?

I do not know ;if you take an Angel and a man female what is it that comes out is it not partly human and partly angel

but it can not be 100% human ,if it would be it would be the sames in size ,so there must be something different about it ,

just for luffs ,HIS A DEER MOUSE OF THE SAME GENETIC THAN THE KANGOUROU (BIG MOUSE )

[mikeboll64]

I don't know if those two mice are of the same species.

The reason I'm asking about the Nephilim is if they are NOT considered to be of the species “adam”, then it shows that TWO similar species can live on earth, communicate with each other, and even mate and produce offspring – even though only ONE of those species is considered to be “adam”.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 27 2013,06:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 26 2013,18:39) Nephilim   it mean giant ,but it could mean beast or men or both But are/were they the same species as “adam”?

guessing I say NO, because they are gone

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