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Quote (t8 @ Feb. 10 2013,18:48) Quote (jammin @ Feb. 10 2013,08:38) we are talking about MAN here and not animals.
Were the sons of God that bred with human woman, men?Were their offspring that lived among us also men?
They are referred to as the legends of old, the men of renown.The Greek legend of Hercules are the offspring of a god and Gaia (Earth). He is a legend of old for example.
There are a lot of things that we do not fully understand. So I personally do not write anything off, if there is no complete evidence either way.
if you do not understand then you must be silent. i told you if the bible is silent, you must be silent. do not follow those people who think they know everything.
just follow what the bible saysyou must learn not to go beyond that which is written
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 10 2013,13:43) Neanderthals, humans may have missed each other
Okay Pierre. You realize I was just using the term “Neanderthal” as an example, right?
I have no idea what Adam, Eve, or Moses would have called the “others” who were humanoid, but not quite “adam”. Also, in this last part of my post……….
And when scripture says Adam was the first “man”, it is not lying, because the Neanderthals were not considered “men” by Moses when he wrote the story of creation. Instead, they were one of the many “beasts of the earth” that were already in existence. (Gen 1:25)
Therefore, Adam truly was the first “man”, made in God's image.
………. it sounds as if I'm claiming FACTS. I wasn't. I should have worded it to convey the meaning of “It COULD HAVE happened like this”.
Quote (jammin @ Feb. 10 2013,18:06) i told you if the bible is silent, you must be silent.
Well jammin,According to the Bible, there existed ONLY Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel. And after Cain killed Abel, there existed ONLY Adam, Eve, and Cain.
The Bible EXPLICITELY says that AFTER Seth was born, Adam and Eve had OTHER sons and daughters. The Bible is silent about any OTHER sons and daughters BEFORE Seth, right?
So how then can you assume they were mating like rabbits, when the Bible is silent about it?
What we actually KNOW from the Bible is that Adam, Eve, and Cain were alive, and Cain was afraid of “others” in the land of Nod.
Who were these “others”, jammin?
the bible is silent. you must be silent boy. the bible is clear that ADAM is the first man. if you insist that before adam, there is HUMAn, then make your own bible
I “insist” nothing. I “SUSPECT” that there were “pre-Adam” type beings, who were not called “adam” in Hebrew.
Therefore, I conclude from the scriptures that Adam WAS truly the first “adam”, but not the first humanoid creature on earth.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,11:09) Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,19:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 29 2011,12:38) WHY were there already “others” out there in the land of Nod, living away from God's presence?
MikeThis is the problem :
The bible doesn't say there were others out there in the land of nod living away from Gods presence.
This is assumed by you.
Fair enough, David. But what are YOU suggesting? That Cain was worried about one of his brothers leaving “the presence of God” to go searching for him in the land of Nod to exact vengeance?Perhaps this DID happen. And when that brother (who also brought a sister with him) finally found Cain, instead of killing Cain to exact vengeance, he gave him the sister to marry!
Because Cain DID find a wife in that land, right? What was SHE doing there? Trying to exact vengeance, but ended up marrying Cain instead?
Why couldn't he take his wife with him?Often in the bible, women aren't mentioned but that doesn't mean they aren't there. If Cain left and wandered in in a not great area, why couldn't he just bring his wife with him?
Sure, it's not a great deal for her. But again, this too happens often in the bible.
I do find this idea of them (Noah, etc) not having children until later in life quite interesting. But I just don't see any reason for being confused about Cain and there being people there.
It's really simple. Imagine a village. One guy does something bad and he is told to leave. The guy says someone finding me will kill me. So the leader says no one can kill him.
In this situation it would be very easy for. Someone that wants to daft vengeance to go find Cain and kill him. Or, maybe Cain doesn't go so far. Maybe he goes 1 mile away. People are still aware of where he is, but he is no longer with the group.
And Cain would bring his wife with him. Back then, a woman would just be dragged along. It's not like she's going to request a legal divorce.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2013,05:33) That does not mean that every family back then dont have many children,I think the contrary. I do think they were breading like rabbits.(free sex).
And you may be right, Wakeup. Perhaps Noah having his first children at age 500 was an extreme exception to the rule. Perhaps ALL THREE of his kids not having any children by the time they were over 100 was also an exception to the rule.Perhaps Eve saying Seth was given to her by God to REPLACE Abel, who had died, was just words – and she really already had hundreds of children.
But how did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod? (Perhaps he was already married, and took his wife with him from the presence of the Lord?) But then, if that was the case, and Cain had his first son, Enoch, in the land of Nod, it makes a pretty good case that Cain did not have children until he was very old. (Since Adam was 130 when Eve had Seth to “replace” Abel.)
Also, why would Cain, with one wife, and one child, set out to build a city? (Gen 4:17) Why would only three people need a “city”?
A city is just a lot of people. They set out to live and produce. Families created more families.I too find it quite weird about the ages.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2013,12:29) I “insist” nothing. I “SUSPECT” that there were “pre-Adam” type beings, who were not called “adam” in Hebrew. Therefore, I conclude from the scriptures that Adam WAS truly the first “adam”, but not the first humanoid creature on earth.
Adam means “man.” Adam was the first man and he was basically named man.Rather than using the word humanoid, how would you compare Adam the man to any who possibly existed before?
Are you suggesting that “monkey men” existed?
Or, define what you mean by “humanoid”
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,10:49) Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,16:02) Mike, interesting thread.
Thanks David. You have I have already had quite an extensive discussion in this thread.
Yes, was quite surprised to realize that. It's almost like I'm 74.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2013,12:29) I “insist” nothing. I “SUSPECT” that there were “pre-Adam” type beings, who were not called “adam” in Hebrew. Therefore, I conclude from the scriptures that Adam WAS truly the first “adam”, but not the first humanoid creature on earth.
well the bible does not accept conclusion from you.
you must read your imagination in the bible. if you cant read that then you must be silent. do not act like you know everything in the scripture.Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:34) define what you mean by “humanoid”
This is from Wikipedia:
The timeline of human evolution outlines the major events in the development of human species, and the evolution of humans' ancestors.Scroll down about 3/4 through this page, and you'll see a dude called Homo heidelbergensis, which is reportedly an ancestor of humans, but not an actual homo sapiens (modern man).
What I suggest is that Homo heidelbergensis was already living at large throughout the world when God decided to create homo sapiens, and place him the in Garden of Eden. I suggest that the Hebrew word “adam” refers ONLY to homo sapiens, of which Adam was the first – and that while there is no direct mention of the Homo heidelbergensis who already populated the earth, the latter was one of the “beasts of the field” that was created before “adam/homo sapiens”.
And while I don't agree with the green words above, that Homo heidelbergensis was an “ancestor” of homo sapiens/adam, I agree that this “sub-human, but almost human species” lived before God created Adam.
I believe the Homo heidelbergensis are the “others” that Cain was afraid of.
(Surely you know that I'm using “Homo heidelbergensis” as an “example word” – just to convey my thinking. I have no idea what these “sub-adam beings” would have been called in Hebrew.)
Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 08 2013,10:49) Quote (david @ Feb. 05 2013,16:02) Mike, interesting thread.
Thanks David. You have I have already had quite an extensive discussion in this thread.
Yes, was quite surprised to realize that. It's almost like I'm 74.
That's the good thing about losing your memory. You get to experience old things anew – like it was the first time again.Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2013,05:33) That does not mean that every family back then dont have many children,I think the contrary. I do think they were breading like rabbits.(free sex).
And you may be right, Wakeup. Perhaps Noah having his first children at age 500 was an extreme exception to the rule. Perhaps ALL THREE of his kids not having any children by the time they were over 100 was also an exception to the rule.Perhaps Eve saying Seth was given to her by God to REPLACE Abel, who had died, was just words – and she really already had hundreds of children.
But how did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod? (Perhaps he was already married, and took his wife with him from the presence of the Lord?) But then, if that was the case, and Cain had his first son, Enoch, in the land of Nod, it makes a pretty good case that Cain did not have children until he was very old. (Since Adam was 130 when Eve had Seth to “replace” Abel.)
Also, why would Cain, with one wife, and one child, set out to build a city? (Gen 4:17) Why would only three people need a “city”?
A city is just a lot of people. They set out to live and produce. Families created more families.I too find it quite weird about the ages.
The point was: Why build a CITY when there is only THREE of you?I'm glad you can see the “weirdness” about the ages.
David, WHO in scripture descended from the lineage of faithful and righteous Abel?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,07:58) Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2013,05:33) That does not mean that every family back then dont have many children,I think the contrary. I do think they were breading like rabbits.(free sex).
And you may be right, Wakeup. Perhaps Noah having his first children at age 500 was an extreme exception to the rule. Perhaps ALL THREE of his kids not having any children by the time they were over 100 was also an exception to the rule.Perhaps Eve saying Seth was given to her by God to REPLACE Abel, who had died, was just words – and she really already had hundreds of children.
But how did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod? (Perhaps he was already married, and took his wife with him from the presence of the Lord?) But then, if that was the case, and Cain had his first son, Enoch, in the land of Nod, it makes a pretty good case that Cain did not have children until he was very old. (Since Adam was 130 when Eve had Seth to “replace” Abel.)
Also, why would Cain, with one wife, and one child, set out to build a city? (Gen 4:17) Why would only three people need a “city”?
A city is just a lot of people. They set out to live and produce. Families created more families.I too find it quite weird about the ages.
The point was: Why build a CITY when there is only THREE of you?I'm glad you can see the “weirdness” about the ages.
David, WHO in scripture descended from the lineage of faithful and righteous Abel?
MIKEGe 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch
in this verse does it say if he build the city in one day a month a year or would it take like 20 or 30 years but he could have started with one house and on fence of that city and make more kids ect ,what is wrong with that ,to me this is the way I would do it
Quote David, WHO in scripture descended from the lineage of faithful and righteous Abel? I would say it is Seth,
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,12:58) Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2013,05:33) That does not mean that every family back then dont have many children,I think the contrary. I do think they were breading like rabbits.(free sex).
And you may be right, Wakeup. Perhaps Noah having his first children at age 500 was an extreme exception to the rule. Perhaps ALL THREE of his kids not having any children by the time they were over 100 was also an exception to the rule.Perhaps Eve saying Seth was given to her by God to REPLACE Abel, who had died, was just words – and she really already had hundreds of children.
But how did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod? (Perhaps he was already married, and took his wife with him from the presence of the Lord?) But then, if that was the case, and Cain had his first son, Enoch, in the land of Nod, it makes a pretty good case that Cain did not have children until he was very old. (Since Adam was 130 when Eve had Seth to “replace” Abel.)
Also, why would Cain, with one wife, and one child, set out to build a city? (Gen 4:17) Why would only three people need a “city”?
A city is just a lot of people. They set out to live and produce. Families created more families.I too find it quite weird about the ages.
The point was: Why build a CITY when there is only THREE of you?I'm glad you can see the “weirdness” about the ages.
David, WHO in scripture descended from the lineage of faithful and righteous Abel?
You keep thinking of the English word city and picture New York or Paris or something.We should look up the Hebrew word translated city. I sort of remembered that the original cities were nothing more than walled enclosures. It seemed to be the wall that made it a city.
And who needed a wall more than Cain? By saying he engaged in building a city, I think he engaged in building a wall, or a walled city.
Once you have a wall, you have people. Because people needed protection back then. Today, much safer. No need to wall cities. I found some commentary:
Genesis 4:17
Cain is not unaccompanied in his banishment. A wife, at least, is the partner of his exile. And soon a son is born to him. He was building a city at the time of this birth. The city is a keep or fort, enclosed with a wall for the defense of all who dwell within. The building of the city is the erection of this wall or barricade. Here we find the motive of fear and self-defense still ruling Cain. His hand has been imbrued in a brother's blood, and he expects every man's hand will be against him.
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 15 2013,13:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 15 2013,07:58) Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2013,21:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 10 2013,15:09) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2013,05:33) That does not mean that every family back then dont have many children,I think the contrary. I do think they were breading like rabbits.(free sex).
And you may be right, Wakeup. Perhaps Noah having his first children at age 500 was an extreme exception to the rule. Perhaps ALL THREE of his kids not having any children by the time they were over 100 was also an exception to the rule.Perhaps Eve saying Seth was given to her by God to REPLACE Abel, who had died, was just words – and she really already had hundreds of children.
But how did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod? (Perhaps he was already married, and took his wife with him from the presence of the Lord?) But then, if that was the case, and Cain had his first son, Enoch, in the land of Nod, it makes a pretty good case that Cain did not have children until he was very old. (Since Adam was 130 when Eve had Seth to “replace” Abel.)
Also, why would Cain, with one wife, and one child, set out to build a city? (Gen 4:17) Why would only three people need a “city”?
A city is just a lot of people. They set out to live and produce. Families created more families.I too find it quite weird about the ages.
The point was: Why build a CITY when there is only THREE of you?I'm glad you can see the “weirdness” about the ages.
David, WHO in scripture descended from the lineage of faithful and righteous Abel?
MIKEGe 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch
in this verse does it say if he build the city in one day a month a year or would it take like 20 or 30 years but he could have started with one house and on fence of that city and make more kids ect ,what is wrong with that ,to me this is the way I would do it
Agreed. He “engaged in building a city.” I think the word city and the word fort or fortification are connected. Anyway, it's saying he began building a city. This could have taken a hundred years.
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