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Hi T8,
Do you believe in:
'The Rapture' doctrine as taught by the systems of religion?
…you never said one way or another as far as I know.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgI am not sure if we have to endure the Tribulation, part of it, or none of it with the Time of Sorrows being the worst of it.
Yes I believe we shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
I think it is possible that the 5 wise virgins will be taken up and the 5 foolish ones will have to endure Tribulation.
I remain open in this subject, but do not want to get caught up in the pre-post debate either.
I have had two dreams lately regarding the night sky.
In one dream we were looking at the night sky and there were crafts up there, some space crafts and things and then I was taken up into the stars, or something. It was quite an amazing dream.The other night I had one where I was lying on the roof of a car, looking up at the night sky, and I had an instant feeling to run, but then I was still on the car roof, and this plastic ball fell from the sky, and I was holding it, wondering.
Later when thinking about the dream I was remembering the hailstones in revelations.
I had not been watching TV or reading anything to make me dream of the sky.
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 29 2012,06:51) I am not sure if we have to endure the Tribulation, part of it, or none of it with the Time of Sorrows being the worst of it. Yes I believe we shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
I think it is possible that the 5 wise virgins will be taken up and the 5 foolish ones will have to endure Tribulation.
I remain open in this subject, but do not want to get caught up in the pre-post debate either.
OK, thanks T8.The tribulation will be caused by the false prophet.
The persecutions of the christians that refused to take the mark, and submit to him.The wrath of God; the 7 trumpets,will come to them that have received the mark.
The christians are enemy number one to the false prophet.
This is the time to have strong faith. To be ready and willing to sacrifice for God.We must now be prepared in our minds,and exercise.
He who saves his life will loose it,and he who loses his life for God will find life.The false prophet will appear as soon as the falling away has come to the max.
wakeup.
It is unfortunate how missunderstood the great tribulation is by all.
Jesus gave “three” prophesies of tribulations, in Mat. 24; and they were all for the Israelites.
The first occurred in AD 70.
Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”
The second, and the worst occurred during Hitler’s reignMat. 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Mat. 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”Those days were shortened, Germany lost the war; had Hitler won the war, there would be no flesh, Jew, saved alive.
The third is yet to be fulfilled. Jesus only mentions what will happen afterwards.
Mat. 24:28 “For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.”The carcass will be the nation Israel, the eagles will be all the strong nation coming against Israel.
And it wont be long now for that to happen, and then Jesus will return.v. 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
Georg
Pastry.
(QUOTE).
Jesus gave “three” prophesies of tribulations, in Mat. 24; and they were ALL FOR ISRAELITES..The first occurred in AD 70.
Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”THIS TRIBULATION DID HAPPENED TO THE JEWS,WHEN JERUSALEM WAS DESTROYED,AND THE TEMPLE.
IT IS CLEAR SAYING THAT JERUSALEM WILL BE COMPASSED WITH ARMIES *THEN THE DESOLATION THEREOF IS NIGH*
SPEAKING OF THE DESOLATION OF JERUSALEM.NOT THE END OF JERUSALEM.The second, and the worst occurred during Hitler’s reign
Mat. 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE IS, THAT THERE WILL BE NO MORE TRIBULATIONS AFTER HITLER.
Mat. 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”
Those days were shortened, Germany lost the war; had Hitler won the war, there would be NO FLESH, Jew, saved alive.
The third is yet to be fulfilled. Jesus only mentions what will happen afterwards.WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT HITLER COULD HAVE DESTROYED ALL THE JEWS ONLY.
TO ME, *NO* FLESH MEANS ALL THE POPULATION OF THIS PLANET.Mat. 24:28 “For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” NA.
The carcass will be the nation Israel, the eagles will be all the strong nation coming against Israel. NA.
And it wont be long now for that to happen, and then Jesus will return.
HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE 7 TRUMPETS OF WRATH BEFORE JESUS RETURN?
v. 29 “Immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
*IMMEDIATELY*AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
WHAT DOES THE WORD IMMEDIATELY MEAN TO YOU?JERUSALEM WAS DESTROYED 1900YRS AGO?
THE SECOND WORLD WAR WAS 170YRS AGO?(this is not immediately).PLEASE EXPLAIN.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 09 2012,16:56) Pastry. (QUOTE).
Jesus gave “three” prophesies of tribulations, in Mat. 24; and they were ALL FOR ISRAELITES..The first occurred in AD 70.
Luke 21:20 “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”THIS TRIBULATION DID HAPPENED TO THE JEWS,WHEN JERUSALEM WAS DESTROYED,AND THE TEMPLE.
IT IS CLEAR SAYING THAT JERUSALEM WILL BE COMPASSED WITH ARMIES *THEN THE DESOLATION THEREOF IS NIGH*
SPEAKING OF THE DESOLATION OF JERUSALEM.NOT THE END OF JERUSALEM.
The second, and the worst occurred during Hitler’s reignMat. 24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
WHAT YOU ARE SAYING HERE IS, THAT THERE WILL BE NO MORE TRIBULATIONS AFTER HITLER.
Mat. 24:22 “And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.”
Those days were shortened, Germany lost the war; had Hitler won the war, there would be NO FLESH, Jew, saved alive.
The third is yet to be fulfilled. Jesus only mentions what will happen afterwards.WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT HITLER COULD HAVE DESTROYED ALL THE JEWS ONLY.
TO ME, *NO* FLESH MEANS ALL THE POPULATION OF THIS PLANET.Mat. 24:28 “For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.” NA.
The carcass will be the nation Israel, the eagles will be all the strong nation coming against Israel. NA.
And it wont be long now for that to happen, and then Jesus will return.
HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE 7 TRUMPETS OF WRATH BEFORE JESUS RETURN?
v. 29 “Immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days, shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”
*IMMEDIATELY*AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
WHAT DOES THE WORD IMMEDIATELY MEAN TO YOU?JERUSALEM WAS DESTROYED 1900YRS AGO?
THE SECOND WORLD WAR WAS 170YRS AGO?(this is not immediately).PLEASE EXPLAIN.
wakeup.
You know wakeup, you have shown me over and over again that in fact you are asleep.WW II ended 170 years ago? are you for real?
I see no point in even talking to you.Georg
wakeup
you ask: “HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE 7 TRUMPETS OF WRATH BEFORE JESUS RETURN?”
Here is what I say: the seven trumpets have been blown; and the seven bowls have been poured out.
Here is something else to puzzle over; the seven trumpets and the seven bowls speak of the same disasters.
Ja, I know, I just went back on my word; but I forgive my self.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 10 2012,05:21) wakeup you ask: “HOW WOULD YOU EXPLAIN THE 7 TRUMPETS OF WRATH BEFORE JESUS RETURN?”
Here is what I say: the seven trumpets have been blown; and the seven bowls have been poured out.
Here is something else to puzzle over; the seven trumpets and the seven bowls speak of the same disasters.
Ja, I know, I just went back on my word; but I forgive my self.
Georg
Pastry.This is not possible that the 7 trumpets has past,according to you.
Because the 7th. trumpet is the coming of the Lord.
And he has not come yet,but is coming.
And the 6th. trumpet is the gathering of all the armies.(200,000,000 of them).(rev.9:16).Are you really saying that the Lord has come?
Please comment.
wakeup.
wakeup
What makes you think that you would “see” the resurrection of the “saints”?
They are resurrected as spirit beings, and they are the only once that will be resurrected before the beginning of the millennium, Christ's 1000 year reign.You obviously take the number of 200 million literal; look at the scripture below.
Joel 1:6 “For a nation is come up upon my land (Israel), strong and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he has the cheek teeth of a great lion.”
Without numbers; are we then to assume that the Assyrians had an army exceeding 200 million?
I also said, the trumpets and the bowls describe the same disaster; for example.
Rev. 8:10 “And the “”third”” angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters.”
v. 11 “And the name of the star is called Wormwood (bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.”This star was not a meteorite, and it did not fall from the sky either. We have today many stars right hear on earth, basketball stars, football stars, baseball stars, and movie stars, they are all “stars“. This great star that fell from heaven was the pope. He fell from his heaven, his place of authority; he fell from power thanks to Napoleon. The pope was the lamp to the world, but it was his light, his doctrine, that poisoned the waters, the true gospel of Christ, and made them bitter, and many men had to die for it.
And now look at the third bowl.Rev. 16:4 “ And the “”third”” angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of water; and they became blood”.
v. 5 “ And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous O lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus”.
v. 6 “ For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets; and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy”.Water is symbolic for the truth of God; Jesus said,
John 7:37 “… if any man thirst let him come unto me, and drink “.
v. 38 “ He that believeth on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters”.Jesus told the woman by the well,
John 4:10 “… if thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; thou wouldest have ask of him, and he would have given thee living water”.Ever since Justinian died, in 565 AD, the western leg of Rome was left to fend for themselves. Although the pope took full charge of state and church, he had no army. He called on France, the strongest kingdom of Europe, for protection. The French Revolution that started in 1789 and lasted thirteen years changed all that; where the Catholic church had persecuted, tortured, and killed those that opposed her, the saints, the Catholic church now became the persecuted herself, “and thou hast given them blood to drink“, you could say, they got a taste of their own medicine. In fact, the church was expelled.
Rev. 6:14 “And the heaven (church) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”
Why as a scroll? A scroll can be unrolled again as was the church when Napoleon reinstated the church again after his return from his unsuccessful invasion of Egypt in 1899.
The rivers and fountains of waters that became blood, was Antichrist’s waters, false doctrine. During the French Revolution, tens of thousand of Catholics, bishops and priests were massacred; it was the end of Antichrist’s reign. It was He that was responsible for the death of millions of saints.This is history, this is fact.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 11 2012,00:59) wakeup What makes you think that you would “see” the resurrection of the “saints”?
They are resurrected as spirit beings, and they are the only once that will be resurrected before the beginning of the millennium, Christ's 1000 year reign.You obviously take the number of 200 million literal; look at the scripture below.
Joel 1:6 “For a nation is come up upon my land (Israel), strong and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he has the cheek teeth of a great lion.”
Without numbers; are we then to assume that the Assyrians had an army exceeding 200 million?
I also said, the trumpets and the bowls describe the same disaster; for example.
Rev. 8:10 “And the “”third”” angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters.”
v. 11 “And the name of the star is called Wormwood (bitter): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.”This star was not a meteorite, and it did not fall from the sky either. We have today many stars right hear on earth, basketball stars, football stars, baseball stars, and movie stars, they are all “stars“. This great star that fell from heaven was the pope. He fell from his heaven, his place of authority; he fell from power thanks to Napoleon. The pope was the lamp to the world, but it was his light, his doctrine, that poisoned the waters, the true gospel of Christ, and made them bitter, and many men had to die for it.
And now look at the third bowl.Rev. 16:4 “ And the “”third”” angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of water; and they became blood”.
v. 5 “ And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous O lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus”.
v. 6 “ For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets; and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy”.Water is symbolic for the truth of God; Jesus said,
John 7:37 “… if any man thirst let him come unto me, and drink “.
v. 38 “ He that believeth on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living waters”.Jesus told the woman by the well,
John 4:10 “… if thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, give me to drink; thou wouldest have ask of him, and he would have given thee living water”.Ever since Justinian died, in 565 AD, the western leg of Rome was left to fend for themselves. Although the pope took full charge of state and church, he had no army. He called on France, the strongest kingdom of Europe, for protection. The French Revolution that started in 1789 and lasted thirteen years changed all that; where the Catholic church had persecuted, tortured, and killed those that opposed her, the saints, the Catholic church now became the persecuted herself, “and thou hast given them blood to drink“, you could say, they got a taste of their own medicine. In fact, the church was expelled.
Rev. 6:14 “And the heaven (church) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.”
Why as a scroll? A scroll can be unrolled again as was the church when Napoleon reinstated the church again after his return from his unsuccessful invasion of Egypt in 1899.
The rivers and fountains of waters that became blood, was Antichrist’s waters, false doctrine. During the French Revolution, tens of thousand of Catholics, bishops and priests were massacred; it was the end of Antichrist’s reign. It was He that was responsible for the death of millions of saints.This is history, this is fact.
Georg
Pastry.1.With the coming of Christ,EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM,EVEN THE JEWS.(rev.1:7).
2. I AGREE THE TRUMPETS =THE VIALS.
3. THE RESURRECTION CAN BE OBVIOUS TO THE EYES,FOR TWO WILL BE WORKING IN THE FIELD AND ONE IS TAKEN AND THE OTHER LEFT. TWO WILL BE SLEEPING,ONE TAKEN AND THE OTHER LEFT.
4. THE GATHERING OF THE ARMIES,IS NOT AGAINST ISRAEL,BUT THE KING OF THE NORTH(the western nations),
AGAINST THE KINGS OF THE SOUTH(the muslem nations and allies). man against man; not against the lamb.5. ISRAEL WILL BE ATTACKED BY THE KING OF THE NORTH,AND THE DOME WILL BE DESTROYED ,AND THIS TRIGGERS THE MUSLEMS TO STAND UP. BOTH ARMIES WILL NUMBER 200 MILLION.THIS IS THE LAST WAR,NOT THE WAR WITH ASSYRIA.
6. THE HISTORY IS FACT,BUT THE PROPHECY DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE HISTORY YOU PRESENTED.
7. THERE ARE STILL 7 TRUMPETS TO SOUND AND THE 7TH TRUMPET WILL BE THE COMING.
8. YOU OBVIOUSLY BELIEVE THAT CHRIST KINGDOM IS HERE NOW FOR 2000YRS NOW. THIS CAN NOT BE; FOR NO ONE HAS BEEN TAKEN AND NO ONE LEFT,AND ISRAEL IS STILL AT WAR WITH THE PALESTINIANS.
9. AND NO ONE HAS SEEN THE COMING,AS THE SCRIPTURE STATES; *EVERY EYE SHALL SEE* THE WORLD WILL SEE HIM COMING IN CLOUDS,WITH HIS ANGELS.
10. THE RIVERS WILL TURN TO BLOOD,THIS WILL BE PHYSICAL,JUST AS WHAT HAPPENED IN EGYPT.
IT ALSO STATES THAT ANYONE DRINK OF THE WATER WILL DIE.(rev8:11). SO THIS IS NOT SPIRITUAL WATERS.11. THE ROMAN CHURCH HAS KILLED MANY,I AGREE,BUT NOTHING COMPARED WITH WHAT IS COMING. (rev.9:18)
a third part of men will be killed.one third of 7 billion = 2.3 billion.Please reconsider.
wakeup.
wakeup
You have way to many subjects for me to go into all of them, but I will start, see how far I get.
Do you really think we will see Christ in all of his glory? consider this.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as “””the sun shineth in his strength”””.
Do you remember what happened to Saul when Jesus appeared to him?
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that “””appeared””” unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
It blinded Saul, and it would blind all of us if we were to look on him; that is why, when he comes, he will be hid behind a cloud.
Tell me when this has happened.Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Well, you know, I changed my mind. I read through your post again, and realised, you make no sense.
You turn everything I said up side down, and you come up with some of the most ridiculous comments for which you have no proof, or scriptures, except your ideas; and who knows where they come from.If your serious, be specific, and give some scriptures.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 11 2012,15:36) wakeup You have way to many subjects for me to go into all of them, but I will start, see how far I get.
Do you really think we will see Christ in all of his glory? consider this.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as “””the sun shineth in his strength”””.
Do you remember what happened to Saul when Jesus appeared to him?
Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that “””appeared””” unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
It blinded Saul, and it would blind all of us if we were to look on him; that is why, when he comes, he will be hid behind a cloud.
Tell me when this has happened.Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Well, you know, I changed my mind. I read through your post again, and realised, you make no sense.
You turn everything I said up side down, and you come up with some of the most ridiculous comments for which you have no proof, or scriptures, except your ideas; and who knows where they come from.If your serious, be specific, and give some scriptures.
Georg
Pastry.I know that every eye shall see,for scripture said so.
Rev1:7.Acts 1.
10. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? THIS SAME JESUS, which is taken up from you into heaven, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER AS YE HAVE SEEN HIM INTO HEAVEN.
——————————————————————-
THE LAST WAR:The 6th trumpet is the gathering of the armies,king of the north(the western nations). against the kings of th south(the medes and his dominion) Jer.51:11.28.
medes=iran today.Dan. 11:44. But tidings out of the EAST AND OUT OF THE NORTH SHALL TROUBLE HIM. Bad news from the east(Medes) and of the north(Russia??).
King of the north: Dan.11:29–39.
king of the south:Dan. 11:40–45. north against south.North(the western nations) south(the muslem nations).
45.The king of the north will plant the tabernacles of his PALACE between the seas in the glorious holy mountain.(jerusalem).Between the great sea and the dead sea.
The *KING* of the north will be the false prophet.
Chapter 12 is the coming.
I can explain it more,but it will be a very long post.
wakeup.
wakeup (if that is possible)
Ask any 5 year old, and they will tell you who the king of the north is.
He'll be making his rounds here soon; I hope you have been a good boy. Naaaaaah.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Dec. 12 2012,04:15) wakeup (if that is possible) Ask any 5 year old, and they will tell you who the king of the north is.
He'll be making his rounds here soon; I hope you have been a good boy. Naaaaaah.
Georg
Pastry.Daniel 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the HORN spake: I beheld even till the beast was SLAIN, and his body DESTROYED, and given to the BURNING FLAME.(see rev.19:20).(at the coming).
The little horn will be cast in the fire at the coming of Christ.(rev.19:20).
This makes the little horn the king of the north,invading israel,and israel will be trodden by the gentiles for 3/half yrs.(rev11:2).
This makes the little horn the one that calls himself God.(Dan.11:36).
This makes the little horn the SON OF PERDITION that call himself God and sitting in the temple of God.(2thess.2:3.4).
This tells us that he will not be revealed untill the falling away has come first.(2 thess.2:2).
This makes the little horn the false prophet that will be cast in the fire in (rev.19:20).
THEREFORE; HE CAN NOT BE THE POPE,BECAUSE THE POPE HAS BEEN *REVEALED* FOR MANY, MANY, YRS NOW.
HOW MANY POPES HAS CARRIED THAT SAME TITLE?
(vicarius filii dei)?I have made it so clear;why cant you accept??
Please respond.
wakeup.
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