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Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 17 2010,21:57) Some more thoughts on Isa 7:14 taken from a Jewish article…. “A very prominent prophecy is claimed in Isaiah vii., 14,
but in order to understand it better we will cite with it the
preceding verses 13 and 14. Here Isaiah says to the wicked
King Ahaz : “Hear ye now, O house of David ; it is a small
thing to you to weary men, but will ye weary God also?
Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a
virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immamiel.”
This is plainly spoken, then, to give a sign to the house
of David, arid not to all Israel, and not to take place over
s,even hundred years later. Who this woman was we will
not discuss, but that my assertions are correct, I turn the
page in the bible and- read in the next chapter, viii., 2, 3,
''And I took unto me faithful witnesses and I went unto
the prophetess and she conceived and bare a son ; then saith
the Lord, call him Maher-shal-al-hashbaz.” Here the child
spoken of must have been born without having waited centuries,
and as we find the child grown into manhood, the
prophet again speaks of him (ib., 8), “And he shall pass
thr Migh Judah, he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach
even to the neck, and the stretching out of his wings shall
fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.”
In the face of this, can we find a prophecy concerning the
Messiah, not-withstanding that ha-almah, the young woman,
is translated into “a virgin ?” Can we not distinctly see that
it speaks of events then occurring with Immanuel then born ?
Gollamudi,You bring up a most enlightening prophecy and one of its fulfilments.
The first fulfillment is in the birth of Isaiah's son Immanuel, who is referred to in Isaiah 8:8.
Of course, the second fulfilment of this prophecy is with the birth of Jesus Christ.
barley
Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 18 2010,22:12) I am also interested to see how Sis Irene tries to disclose the right book.
gollwhat are you really interested in if it is not the truth??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 22 2010,23:05) Quote (gollamudi @ Aug. 18 2010,22:12) I am also interested to see how Sis Irene tries to disclose the right book.
gollwhat are you really interested in if it is not the truth??
Pierre
Pierre,He may be interested in the truth.
I never really gave it much thought until reading the thread because we have heard from childhood about the “virgin birth”. Here in Colombia they deify, sanctify and worship Mary and other “virgins”.
But with a little research the word 'alma used in Is 7:14 is for maiden. Whereas the word for “virgin” is bethulah and is seen in Gen 24:16:
However in the notes concerning 'alma I found this:
“There is no instance where it can be proved that 'almâ designates a young woman who is not a virgin. The fact of virginity is obvious in Gen 24:43 where 'almâ is used of one who was being sought as a bride for Isaac.”
Gen 24:16 The girl was very beautiful, a virgin, and no man had had relations with her; and she went down to the spring and filled her jar and came up.
Gen 24:43 behold, I am standing by the spring, and may it be that the maiden who comes out to draw, and to whom I say, “Please let me drink a little water from your jar”;
Now for those who know the results of the “maiden” in Is 7:14 as being fulfilled in Is 8:3 we see that the angel also told us that the prophecy also was going to apply to another as seen here: (which should preclude an argument)
Mat 1:23 “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
Now, no confusion over virgin or maiden.
The Professor
David the Professor,
The Jews have an interesting way of looking as scripture that is confusing to some. To a Jew God can mean more than one thing by his words. This is called “entendre” when it is done by people today. There is the obvious meaning and then the hidden meanings.
Matthew seemed prone to interpret scripture in this way for his audience which was probably Jews of the lower and middle classes. He also does it by quoting Hosea 11:1 and stating it refers to Jesus being called out of Egypt as a child when Hosea seems to clearly be speaking of the tribe of Israel.
In contrast John appears to be speaking to the intellectuals among both Jews and Greeks that are familiar with Jewish theology as he appears to be using the teachings of Philo of Alexander in his gospel and letters.
I believe that the other writers also tailor what they wrote according to their expected hearers
.Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2010,00:13) David the Professor, The Jews have an interesting way of looking as scripture that is confusing to some. To a Jew God can mean more than one thing by his words. This is called “entendre” when it is done by people today. There is the obvious meaning and then the hidden meanings.
Matthew seemed prone to interpret scripture in this way for his audience which was probably Jews of the lower and middle classes. He also does it by quoting Hosea 11:1 and stating it refers to Jesus being called out of Egypt as a child when Hosea seems to clearly be speaking of the tribe of Israel.
In contrast John appears to be speaking to the intellectuals among both Jews and Greeks that are familiar with Jewish theology as he appears to be using the teachings of Philo of Alexander in his gospel and letters.
I believe that the other writers also tailor what they wrote according to their expected hearers
.
Kerwin, my fellow student,You are so right.
Also going to the original question of why Jesus' birth wasn't recorded in Mark and John….
I was taught that the four gospels were intertwined with the four faces and each face depicted four facets of Jesus' functions.
Mark's face is that of an ox and the ox is a servant and a servant wouln't have his genealogy listed. John was depicting Jesus being the son of God and was with God in the beginning so there is no other genealogy.
Another lifelong student,
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 27 2010,11:56) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2010,00:13) David the Professor, The Jews have an interesting way of looking as scripture that is confusing to some. To a Jew God can mean more than one thing by his words. This is called “entendre” when it is done by people today. There is the obvious meaning and then the hidden meanings.
Matthew seemed prone to interpret scripture in this way for his audience which was probably Jews of the lower and middle classes. He also does it by quoting Hosea 11:1 and stating it refers to Jesus being called out of Egypt as a child when Hosea seems to clearly be speaking of the tribe of Israel.
In contrast John appears to be speaking to the intellectuals among both Jews and Greeks that are familiar with Jewish theology as he appears to be using the teachings of Philo of Alexander in his gospel and letters.
I believe that the other writers also tailor what they wrote according to their expected hearers
.
Kerwin, my fellow student,You are so right.
Also going to the original question of why Jesus' birth wasn't recorded in Mark and John….
I was taught that the four gospels were intertwined with the four faces and each face depicted four facets of Jesus' functions.
Mark's face is that of an ox and the ox is a servant and a servant wouln't have his genealogy listed. John was depicting Jesus being the son of God and was with God in the beginning so there is no other genealogy.
Another lifelong student,
The Professor
DBF and Kerwincould and be good to answer this questions;
why did God only saved the scriptures we have?
and why did the records and explanations written in those scriptures are the way they are ?Pierre
Pierre,
God is and so he has no need of scriptures or anything else to get his point across. He just chooses to use whatever he chooses to use at any given instant for any given person. I cannot explain why he chooses what he does except to say that God loves each of us and will do what is necessary to enable each and every one of us to reach out and find him.
It does aid one to know the extra scriptural context beyond a scripture but such knowledge is not necessary because God exists and is available to explain all that needs explaining. If he does not make such extra scriptural sources available to you then he will do something else that accomplishes the same thing. This I am confident of because God loves each of us.
I do not know if I would go as far as to say each gospel represents a different facet of Jesus’ life but that they were written for different audiences seems self evident just by reading them. This makes sense and was a good thing to do as Paul clearly stated to a Jew he came a Jew and to a Gentile he came as a Gentile.
It is not necessary to know the intended audience but it is necessary to know and understand the message of salvation contained in scripture.
Pierre,
I think that God saved the Scriptures that He wanted so that we could know Him better.
The Bible is the written word;
Jesus is the living word;
And the Holy Spirit is the word living in us.Matthew and Luke explains that Mary had yet had sex with Joseph and that the Power of the Most High, The Holy Spirit, came upon her and overpowered her.
Had we had these accounts orally who knows how it would've come about today. However, because we have it in writing we can now look and see how scientifically a “virgin” could conceive a child without having relations with a man and that is thru in-vitro fetilization, which concurs with the Bible's accounts. And explains how Jesus could empty himself from his previous “form” to take on a human “form”.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,19:17) Pierre, I think that God saved the Scriptures that He wanted so that we could know Him better.
The Bible is the written word;
Jesus is the living word;
And the Holy Spirit is the word living in us.Matthew and Luke explains that Mary had yet had sex with Joseph and that the Power of the Most High, The Holy Spirit, came upon her and overpowered her.
Had we had these accounts orally who knows how it would've come about today. However, because we have it in writing we can now look and see how scientifically a “virgin” could conceive a child without having relations with a man and that is thru in-vitro fetilization, which concurs with the Bible's accounts. And explains how Jesus could empty himself from his previous “form” to take on a human “form”.
DBFdid you know anyone in the scriptures receiving God blessing without having done absolutely nothing(except Adam and Eve)
Pierre
Pierre,
It is a loaded question. We live, we do.
God blessed Abraham without him having to do anything. God blessed David and made him king. But, whomever God blesses, usually turns around and loves God for it. Adam and Eve received God's blessings and then multiplied….so even they did something.
God blessed me and gave me His son and all I did was sin.
Mary was blessed with a child and it didn't say what she did to “deserve” it. John was a blessing to Elizabeth and Zechariah given to them by God…..and on and on it could go…throughout the entire Bible God blesses many without any requirement on their part.
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,23:13) Pierre, It is a loaded question. We live, we do.
God blessed Abraham without him having to do anything. God blessed David and made him king. But, whomever God blesses, usually turns around and loves God for it. Adam and Eve received God's blessings and then multiplied….so even they did something.
God blessed me and gave me His son and all I did was sin.
Mary was blessed with a child and it didn't say what she did to “deserve” it. John was a blessing to Elizabeth and Zechariah given to them by God…..and on and on it could go…throughout the entire Bible God blesses many without any requirement on their part.
DBFmy question was did they receive the blessing for no reason ?
Pierre
your respond did not answer that question.
Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin,
So you think God protected the so called 'word of God' in Christian Bibles? If so why there are errors and contradictions?
The virgin birth is nothing but pius fraud invented by the writers of Matthew and Luke. Hebrew scriptures never meant for so called Christian Messiah. But Christian writers made it meant their way.
Think over
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ Sep. 02 2010,04:18) Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin,
So you think God protected the so called 'word of God' in Christian Bibles? If so why there are errors and contradictions?
The virgin birth is nothing but pius fraud invented by the writers of Matthew and Luke. Hebrew scriptures never meant for so called Christian Messiah. But Christian writers made it meant their way.
Think over
Adam
Hello Adam,Why aren't you listed as a “skeptic”? If you don't believe in the Bible, why would you bother posting in the believers' section?
Hello Adam
I prefer the Bible over the people's opinions.
I didn't see anything in Scriptures that would dispel what is written.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, BEFORE they came together she was found to be with child BY the Holy Spirit.
Regardless of whether she was a “young maiden” or “virgin” it was BEFORE she had (sexual) relaitons with Joseph.
Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 02 2010,03:18) Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin,
So you think God protected the so called 'word of God' in Christian Bibles? If so why there are errors and contradictions?
The virgin birth is nothing but pius fraud invented by the writers of Matthew and Luke. Hebrew scriptures never meant for so called Christian Messiah. But Christian writers made it meant their way.
Think over
Adam
GollRo 10:1 Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
Ro 10:2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
Ro 10:3 Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Ro 10:4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Ro 10:5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: “The man who does these things will live by them.”
Ro 10:6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’’” (that is, to bring Christ down)
Ro 10:7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).
Ro 10:8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
Ro 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Ro 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Ro 10:11 As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.”you would not even trust your own people,you like to believe in men ,your teachings are men made philosophy ,there is no room for this in scriptures either OT_or NT.
Pierre
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 28 2010,23:13) Pierre, It is a loaded question. We live, we do.
God blessed Abraham without him having to do anything. God blessed David and made him king. But, whomever God blesses, usually turns around and loves God for it. Adam and Eve received God's blessings and then multiplied….so even they did something.
God blessed me and gave me His son and all I did was sin.
Mary was blessed with a child and it didn't say what she did to “deserve” it. John was a blessing to Elizabeth and Zechariah given to them by God…..and on and on it could go…throughout the entire Bible God blesses many without any requirement on their part.
DBFRo 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?
Ro 4:2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
Ro 4:3 What does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
Ge 39:2 And the LORD was with Joseph, and he was a prosperous man
And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you.they all add something in common they were true believers in God.THEY PROVED IT BY THERE WAY OF LIVE.
THAT IS WHY GOD BLESS THEM
Pierre
Quote (davidbfun @ Sep. 04 2010,09:27) Hello Adam I prefer the Bible over the people's opinions.
I didn't see anything in Scriptures that would dispel what is written.
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, BEFORE they came together she was found to be with child BY the Holy Spirit.
Regardless of whether she was a “young maiden” or “virgin” it was BEFORE she had (sexual) relaitons with Joseph.
Then who was human father of Jesus if Mary had not have sex with her husband with whom she was already betrothed?Quote (gollamudi @ Sep. 01 2010,20:18) Hi brothers Professor and Kerwin,
(1) So you think God protected the so called 'word of God' in Christian Bibles? (2) If so why there are errors and contradictions?
Adam
Hi Adam,1)
Psalm 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them (In The AKJV Bible) from this generation for ever.
Isaiah 28:11: For with stammering lips and another tongue(That is English) will he speak to this people.2)
Human error.
Take for example…
Mathew 27:9: Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,
saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that
was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;This is true: But the “Human factor” attributes what
the Prophet Zechariah said to the Prophet Jeremiah.Zech.11:12-3 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear.
So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me,
Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them.
And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the
potter in the house of the LORD. (Matt.27:10)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
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