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Hi not3,
They knew of the terrifying God of their forebears.
They were not facile enough to think God was a puny man like them.
Only ignorant modern men, unfamiliar with God, could propose He could be as a man.I tremble at what God must think of those who have turned the gift of his Son into a mythical concoction.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2007,19:28) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses, the seed of Abraham, the rod, the branch, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the seed of David, the Son of David, the Root and the Offspring of David, a man anointed by God, the Lamb, the Holy One of God, the Son of God, the CHRIST!Alot of people dont want to talk about The Line of King Daivd.
What caught my attention is John.The Parents of John were well Stricken in years.For another words they didnt have any Children or couldnt have.But yet nothing is mention about this wonderful event ..Where the Holy Spirit visit Elizabeth.And she also had the Holy Spirit in her Womb.
When you compare Mary and Elizabeth BIRTHS.Something is wrong..
I will stop here for now.
Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
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I wonder what Peter thought when he was asked, “Who do you say that I am?” He had a choice at that point. Do I overestimate the Son or underestimate him? GOD told him the answer – lucky Peter! We should look to this answer and claim it as our own. Don't read into it anything that GOD hasn't told you, Isaiah. Jesus is the Son. He is not God. If we stick to the simple, written truth I beilieve we will be “safe.” Have a great weekend.Quote (Unisage @ May 20 2007,02:49) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 19 2007,19:28) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
Jesus is the prophet like unto Moses, the seed of Abraham, the rod, the branch, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah, the seed of David, the Son of David, the Root and the Offspring of David, a man anointed by God, the Lamb, the Holy One of God, the Son of God, the CHRIST!Alot of people dont want to talk about The Line of King Daivd.
What caught my attention is John.The Parents of John were well Stricken in years.For another words they didnt have any Children or couldnt have.But yet nothing is mention about this wonderful event ..Where the Holy Spirit visit Elizabeth.And she also had the Holy Spirit in her Womb.
When you compare Mary and Elizabeth BIRTHS.Something is wrong..
I will stop here for now.
Hi u,
Not so IMHO.John was conceived in the normal fashion and filled with the Spirit while in the womb of Elizabeth.
Lk1
13But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.Luke 1:44
For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.Elizabeth too was filled with that Spirit.
Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:John was a son of man.
Jesus was son of man and son of God.
John filled with the Spirit from the womb.
Christ filled with the Spirit at the Jordan.Quote (Not3in1 @ May 20 2007,03:19) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
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I wonder what Peter thought when he was asked, “Who do you say that I am?” He had a choice at that point. Do I overestimate the Son or underestimate him? GOD told him the answer – lucky Peter! We should look to this answer and claim it as our own. Don't read into it anything that GOD hasn't told you, Isaiah. Jesus is the Son. He is not God. If we stick to the simple, written truth I beilieve we will be “safe.” Have a great weekend.
Yes, but what did Peter mean by “Son of God”? To the Jewish mind “Son of” can denote 'nature of' or 'of the order of'. James and John were called (by Yeshua) sons of thunder (Mark 3:17), they had this nature. Judas was described (by Yeshua) as a son of perdition (John 17:12). In the OT the son of a prophet was a term used to describe someone from the order of the prophets. So Peter may have intended this connotation.Also, yes Yeshua is a Son of God as a function of His earthly birth (Luke 1:35). I don't dispute this. But scripture also describes Him with loftier titles, titles only applicable to the one true God – God (John 1:1), my God (John 20:28), God of the Spirits (Revelation 22:6), our God and Savior (2 Peter 1:1), Great God (Titus 2:13), Mighty God (Isa 9:6), Alpha and Omega (Revelation 22:16), Lord of Glory (1 Corinthians 2:8), YHWH (Zechariah 14).
This is the true Yeshua.
Hi Is 1.18,
Do you really think Christ when he said he is the Son of God was saying that he is just “of the order of God?”
Is that really what you think Peter meant too, or is this yet another trinitarian doctrinal justification?
When Christ spoke of his Father was he speaking of the order of God too?
When he prayed to his Father God what does this show of this order?Yes, but what did Peter mean by “Son of God”?
****************It was also Jewish custom to address one another by their Father's names (by the way, this is how surnames came into being: A guy named Ander for instance – had a son – instead of saying, “Son of Ander” it became “Anderson” – facinating study).
Anyway, Jesus asked Peter, “Who do you say that I am?” And Peter said, “You are the SON OF the living God….” Then Jesus says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon, SON OF Jonah….” See how both of the men acknowleged who their Daddy's were. It's not some “term” that was meant for other things. It just meant in it's purest form – “son of” – who's your Daddy.
Hi,
Athanasius said in his treatise on incarnation.“He Who did thus must surely be Himself the Lord of birth. This is proved also at the outset of His becoming Man. He formed His own body from the virgin; and that is no small proof of His Godhead, since He Who made that was the Maker of all else. And would not anyone infer from the fact of that body being begotten of a virgin only, without human father, that He Who appeared in it was also the Maker and Lord of all beside?”
hmmmQuote (Is 1:18 @ May 20 2007,08:50) Quote (Not3in1 @ May 20 2007,03:19) Safer to overestimate the Son, than to underestimate Him. That's what I think.
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I wonder what Peter thought when he was asked, “Who do you say that I am?” He had a choice at that point. Do I overestimate the Son or underestimate him? GOD told him the answer – lucky Peter! We should look to this answer and claim it as our own. Don't read into it anything that GOD hasn't told you, Isaiah. Jesus is the Son. He is not God. If we stick to the simple, written truth I beilieve we will be “safe.” Have a great weekend.
Yes, but what did Peter mean by “Son of God”? To the Jewish mind “Son of” can denote 'nature of' or 'of the order of'. James and John were called (by Yeshua) sons of thunder (Mark 3:17), they had this nature. Judas was described (by Yeshua) as a son of perdition (John 17:12). In the OT the son of a prophet was a term used to describe someone from the order of the prophets. So Peter may have intended this connotation.Also, yes Yeshua is a Son of God as a function of His earthly birth (Luke 1:35). I don't dispute this. But scripture also describes Him with loftier titles, titles only applicable to the one true God – God (John 1:1), my God (John 20:28), God of the Spirits (Revelation 22:6), our God and Savior (2 Peter 1:1), Great God (Titus 2:13), Mighty God (Isa 9:6), Alpha and Omega (Revelation 22:16), Lord of Glory (1 Corinthians 2:8), YHWH (Zechariah 14).
This is the true Yeshua.
True Isaiah!I dont think they even look up the scriptures you list or even care.
They seem not to be important to them.
Very sad!
HiW,
So you agree he was not really the Son of God?
Strange.
It is the foundation stone you are removing,.
But then it is the stumbling stone for some too.I dont think they even look up the scriptures you list or even care.
They seem not to be important to them.
Very sad!
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WJ, nice to hear your judgemental tone again around here – how have you been bro?Isaiah and I have actually had many conversations that have been wonderful, and YES I have looked up the scriptures that he recommended and even checked out a version of the Bible he recommended.
Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we are not listening and studying, WJ. You can hope we are listening but you can't force your doctrine. God is the one who calls and soften hearts. If you really cared, you would pray for me instead of dismissing my sincerity.
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 24 2007,17:40) I dont think they even look up the scriptures you list or even care. They seem not to be important to them.
Very sad!
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WJ, nice to hear your judgemental tone again around here – how have you been bro?Isaiah and I have actually had many conversations that have been wonderful, and YES I have looked up the scriptures that he recommended and even checked out a version of the Bible he recommended.
Just because we don't agree doesn't mean we are not listening and studying, WJ. You can hope we are listening but you can't force your doctrine. God is the one who calls and soften hearts. If you really cared, you would pray for me instead of dismissing my sincerity.
not3I have prayed for you!
Have you prayed for me?
I wasnt being critical or judgmental.
I simply believe that Trinitarians do most of the quoting scriptures around here, and it seems to go unnoticed since no one ever addresses them or gives their take on them!
All I ever see is statements like this…
Quote We should look to this answer and claim it as our own. Don't read into it anything that GOD hasn't told you, Isaiah. Jesus is the Son. He is not God. If we stick to the simple, written truth I beilieve we will be “safe.” Have a great weekend. Implying that Isaiah hasnt heard from God or is teaching something that is not from God yet not addressing the scriptures, or giving your understanding of those scriptures.
Just simply saying that he is wrong has no weight.
Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I hope you understand!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2007,17:40) HiW,
So you agree he was not really the Son of God?
Strange.
It is the foundation stone you are removing,.
But then it is the stumbling stone for some too.
NHIs that what you think Isaiah is saying?
Have you prayed for me?
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OK, honestly, no. But I will tonight. I have missed you the last few nights when you haven't been around. I even checked to see if you posted recently. Does that count?I simply believe that Trinitarians do most of the quoting scriptures around here, and it seems to go unnoticed since no one ever addresses them or gives their take on them!
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Well, I don't know if that is necessarily true. I answered a post from GW with scripture and it was quite long. I do use scripture when I think it will do any good. However, I've received some PM's that tell me I'm getting points across better without quoting tons and tons of scriptures. So, I guess I'll keep doing my best – it's all any of us can do.Just simply saying that he is wrong has no weight.
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I usually say more than that. And from what I can tell, simply sharing my viewpoint has carried some weight with some. I'm not out to win any awards or anything. I simply share what I feel. I'm not a scholar, WJ.Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I hope you understand!
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Sure. No problem. I've come to expect it from you, WJ. Like I told Tim2 who was complaining about Nick getting on him all the time – you are sharpening me and helping find answers quicker. Your're not ruffling my feathers, you're doing something better – you're making me a better Christian.
Thank you.Quote (Not3in1 @ May 24 2007,18:12) Have you prayed for me?
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OK, honestly, no. But I will tonight. I have missed you the last few nights when you haven't been around. I even checked to see if you posted recently. Does that count?I simply believe that Trinitarians do most of the quoting scriptures around here, and it seems to go unnoticed since no one ever addresses them or gives their take on them!
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Well, I don't know if that is necessarily true. I answered a post from GW with scripture and it was quite long. I do use scripture when I think it will do any good. However, I've received some PM's that tell me I'm getting points across better without quoting tons and tons of scriptures. So, I guess I'll keep doing my best – it's all any of us can do.Just simply saying that he is wrong has no weight.
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I usually say more than that. And from what I can tell, simply sharing my viewpoint has carried some weight with some. I'm not out to win any awards or anything. I simply share what I feel. I'm not a scholar, WJ.Sorry if I ruffled your feathers. I hope you understand!
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Sure. No problem. I've come to expect it from you, WJ. Like I told Tim2 who was complaining about Nick getting on him all the time – you are sharpening me and helping find answers quicker. Your're not ruffling my feathers, you're doing something better – you're making me a better Christian.
Thank you.
not3You are welcome!
And thank you for understanding!
Quote (Not3in1 @ May 20 2007,11:47) Anyway, Jesus asked Peter, “Who do you say that I am?” And Peter said, “You are the SON OF the living God….” Then Jesus says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon, SON OF Jonah….” See how both of the men acknowleged who their Daddy's were. It's not some “term” that was meant for other things. It just meant in it's purest form – “son of” – who's your Daddy.
Well yes, you're correct, Yeshua's heavenly Father really was His Father. But I believe He became a Father to Jesus at the incarnation. Consider, for example, this verse:Hebrews 1:5
For to which of the angels did He ever say,
“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?
And again,
“I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIM
AND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME”?Notice that in the context of this passage the Father is addressing Yeshua. There was obviously a time when He was alive, able to be addressed, but not yet a Son. Otherwise why would he say with a future tense “I will be a Father” and “He shall be a Son”?
I should also add that I hold that Yeshua is the Son of God in more than one sense. The scriptures I quoted in my last post bear this out, I think. Incidentally, I think Yeshua is the “Son of man” in more than one sense as well. He has this title as He is of the order of man, He is “man”. Also, He is the fulfillment of Daniel's messianic prophecy (Dan 7:13).
With regard to Peter's declaration, I don;t believe it's possible to be absolutely dogmatic in asserting what Peter meant by what he proclaimed Yeshua was. It's my opinion that Peter was affirming that Yeshua had the very nature of YHWH, He was a divine man. It makes more sense to me in light of what Yehsua responded with.
Blessings
Hi Is 1.18,
Surely the scriptures were describing the active father-son relationship Jesus and God had when Jesus was a child. God was not an absentee Dad or one in name only but He taught and disciplined his son so that by the age of 12 Jesus knew Who his true dad was.God did this with Israel too.
Deuteronomy 8:5
” Thus you are to know in your heart that the LORD your God was disciplining you just as a man disciplines his son
Deuteronomy 11:2
“Know this day that I am not speaking with your sons who have not known and who have not seen the discipline of the LORD your God–His greatness, His mighty hand and His outstretched arm,
Job 5:17
“Behold, how happy is the man whom God reproves,So do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.
Psalm 118:18
The LORD has disciplined me severely,But He has not given me over to death.
Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not reject the discipline of the LORDOr loathe His reproof,
Proverbs 13:24
He who withholds his rod hates his son,But he who loves him disciplines him diligently.ALL OF GOD”S SONS KNOW HIS DISCIPLINE
Hebrews 12:5
and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,” MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD,NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM;
Hebrews 12:6
FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES,AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES.”
Hebrews 12:7
It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Hebrews 12:8
But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.You say you do not understand Peter?
You must find out what he meant because it earned the praise of the Master.
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