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Hi tim,
Jn 3
” 14And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil…..
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Hi david,
You said in another thread
“Hi Nick, your understanding of God must be that of a very weak God, He can't do what He would like to do. “God wills ALL mankind to be saved”, but you say He can't accomplish that? Can He only save a few? How sad. He did His best.”This shows that the JW faith is of course a form of universalism.
The JWs believe all are forgiven at death so all are saved.
Of course the JW version is different in that they go to heaven if they “qualify for the 144,000” and they stay on earth if they are just also rans. Ah well.
I didn't actually say that. I quoted someone else who was speaking to you and said:
Quote Quote
Hi Nick, your understanding of God must be that of a very weak God,Then, I went on to say:
“I'm not sure what Nick's understanding is. But to believe that God will not save all of mankind is not to say that God is weak. God's power is not in question. But he is also wise and just. …”
I was actually sort of defending you.
Quote “God wills ALL mankind to be saved”, but you say He can't accomplish that?
I nowhere said he “can't.” I said he won't, as the scriptures clearly indicate. He would like for that to be the case. He doesn't desire that any are destroyed. Yet, if we choose to ignore God, in fact going against his will, he “won't” not “can't.”God says “All my desire I WILL do” (Isaiah 46:8-11)
God “wills all mankind to be saved, that none should perish”.
Is God contadicting His own words? Can He not do something He wants to do?
Blessings
Hi co,
Did God ever say in scripture He is omnipotent or is that a theological word applied to Him?
He has defined those who will find mercy.
It belongs to the merciful.
Matt 5
“7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. “Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2007,12:47) Hi co,
Did God ever say in scripture He is omnipotent or is that a theological word applied to Him?
He has defined those who will find mercy.
It belongs to the merciful.
Matt 5
“7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. “
Hi Nick.
The scriptures I refered to but didn't state are:1Tim 2:3-4 …our saviour, God, who wills all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
1 Tim 4:9-11 …that we rely on the living God, Who is the saviour of all mankind, especially (not exclusively) of believers.
The “all” in these scriptures refers to all, not just the merciful. How can we not accept what God says?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2007,15:06) Hi CO,
God wants all.
But all will not believe in The Son.
Hi Nick.
So these scriptures are wrong?Hi CO,
No misread.
God has a hope that all will respond to the Son.
However those that do not respond to that message remain under His wrath.That is the judgement of God.
Jn 3
“35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2007,16:30) Hi CO,
No misread.
God has a hope that all will respond to the Son.
However those that do not respond to that message remain under His wrath.That is the judgement of God.
Jn 3
“35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Hi Nick.
The scripture you quote from the book of John 3:35-36, is for the Jews, still under the “Old Covenant” and still under the “Law”. Jesus message was to the Jews, and His teachings were to them. The nations, (gentiles), were still apart from God, and not included. Had the Jews obeyed the law, and accepted thier Messiah, Jesus, they would have entered the “Kingdom” with thier King, Christ Jesus. Having rejected thier Messiah, had Him crucified, and again rejected Him after His resurection, God has “set them asside” and turned to the Gentiles. We are now under a new covenant of “Grace”, where Jew and Gentile alike are to share the blessings. So this scripture that you quote is not for today.
The epistles of Paul are the scriptures for us in this present eon.
See Mat.15:24…Now He (Jesus), answering, said, “I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel”. (Not for the “nations” (gentiles).
Also Ro.15:8 & 16…(8) For I am saying that Christ has become the Servant of the Circumcision, for the sake of the truth of God, to confirm the patriarchal promises.
(16) … for me (Paul) to be the minister of Christ Jesus for the nations (Gentiles)…
So to grasp the correct meaning of scripture, we must “correctly cut the word of truth” (2Tim.2:15), much error will be reduced when correctly understanding what is said and to whom it was said.Blessings.
Hi CO,
Compare Rom 2 and 3.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God
Rom 2
” 11For there is no respect of persons with God.12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; “
Outside the law men perished anyway.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2007,15:06) Hi CO,
God wants all.
But all will not believe in The Son.
Hi Nick,
scripture does not say that God wants all.Our Saviour, God, Who wills [this is the very “will” of The Almighty Creator God] that all mankind [not some or a few, but all mankind] be saved and come to a realization [that’s “knowledge,” a dispelling of “ignorance”] of the truth”
Whatever God wills He will have.
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2007,17:59) Hi CO,
Compare Rom 2 and 3.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God
Rom 2
” 11For there is no respect of persons with God.12For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; “
Outside the law men perished anyway.
Hi Nick,The scripture that you quote is correct. Your understanding of what perish means si flawed.
Can a person perish and still be saved? Of course. Even “righteous” men can perish,
“All things have I seen in the days of my vanity: there is a JUST MAN that PERISHES in his righteousness, and there is a wicked man that prolongs his life in his wickedness” (Ecc. 7:15).
One more,
“The RIGHTEOUS PERISHES, and no man lays it to heart…” (Isa. 57:1).Perishing is not something that can keep a person from salvation.
Tim
Hi Tim.
I agree with you, “Whatever God wills, He will accomplish”. Isiah.46:8-11 “ALL my desire, I will do.”Blessings.
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