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David ………..So your not certain if that what he said right, then that gives you the right to change it to meet your JW views, then. I have explained my belief that the Kingdom of GOD is within a person, and backed it up with logic and scriptures. And even ask you why does all theose people who you and the JW's preach as Happy members of the “KINGDOM” here on earth (TURN) as soon as the EVIL is released on the earth again. I have shown you that it is because the true Kingdom of GOD was (NOT) in them. If this is in error then prove it. But don't ask us to believe the interpretation of what Jesus said is in accurate here, because many other scriptures back up the Idea of GOD Rule is within a person, BY His Spirit thats in them.
Peace and love to you……………………….gene
David,
When Jesus told the pharisees that the kingdom of God was in their midst and does not come with observation – what do you think that the kingdom was/is? – it could not be himself as he said that they could not observe it.
John 18:36 Jesus says that his kingdom is not of this world.
Jesus also says God is a spirit and Jesus said he must be worshipped in spirit John 4:24 also Jesus said that we must be born again, and also that what is flesh is flesh, and does not inherit the kingdom of God, John 3:3-12, 1 Cor 15:50 – to me all that says that the actual kingdom of God is not in the physical realm – it is spiritual – however when Jesus was raised he still could interact with and influence the physical realm.
Hi MK,
Good points.
Lk16
16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.Quote (meerkat @ Jan. 15 2009,06:46) David, When Jesus told the pharisees that the kingdom of God was in their midst and does not come with observation – what do you think that the kingdom was/is? – it could not be himself as he said that they could not observe it.
John 18:36 Jesus says that his kingdom is not of this world.
Jesus also says God is a spirit and Jesus said he must be worshipped in spirit John 4:24 also Jesus said that we must be born again, and also that what is flesh is flesh, and does not inherit the kingdom of God, John 3:3-12, 1 Cor 15:50 – to me all that says that the actual kingdom of God is not in the physical realm – it is spiritual – however when Jesus was raised he still could interact with and influence the physical realm.
Hi MK:They could not obeserve the kingdom like one can observe the city of Jerusalem or New york, for example, but each Christian is in the kingdom of God. We have confessed Jesus, our Lord, and he is the King and we are his subjects.
He said this:
Quote Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Mat 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heavenAnd so, people should be able to see the love of God manifest through the life of each individual Christian, and so, in this way one can see the kingdom of God. We who are born again Christians are that kingdom of God in the midst of the world system.
Thank you 942767,
I understand that, I am asking David who seems to think that Gods kingdom and reign is physical, when Jesus said that it was not physical and of this earth, it is spiritual however it does have physical signs you can observe, the fruit, which is love, peace, patience etc.
Hi MK,
The initiation of the kingdom was at the time of Jesus ministry
but He will return to visibly rule from the seat of David in Jerusalem.Quote (meerkat @ Jan. 15 2009,10:19) Thank you 942767, I understand that, I am asking David who seems to think that Gods kingdom and reign is physical, when Jesus said that it was not physical and of this earth, it is spiritual however it does have physical signs you can observe, the fruit, which is love, peace, patience etc.
meekat………Amen sister, the kingdom of God is within you thats where God rules in the heart and minds of His children. When God rules inside the outside will reflect it. True.love and peace to you and yours…………..gene
Quote David, When Jesus told the pharisees that the kingdom of God was in their midst and does not come with observation – what do you think that the kingdom was/is? – it could not be himself as he said that they could not observe it.
Observe: “To be or become aware of, especially through careful and directed attention; notice.”
http://www.answers.com/topic/observeWhere they aware that Jesus was the king of the kingdom? Did they notice this? I do not believe Jesus “is” the kingdom–merely that as the head of this kingdom, that he represents it. When the U.N. hold their gatherings, you look around and say: “U.S. is there.” “Canada is there.” But, you're just looking at the one person who represents them.
Quote John 18:36 Jesus says that his kingdom is not of this world. Jesus also says God is a spirit and Jesus said he must be worshipped in spirit John 4:24 also Jesus said that we must be born again, and also that what is flesh is flesh, and does not inherit the kingdom of God, John 3:3-12, 1 Cor 15:50 – to me all that says that the actual kingdom of God is not in the physical realm – it is spiritual – however when Jesus was raised he still could interact with and influence the physical realm.
I'm not sure how any of this disagrees with what I believe. “The kingdom is no part of the world.” Sure. Does this statement prove that it is not a heavenly government as I keep asserting. Which of your statements conflicts with my beliefs and why?Quote David ………..So your not certain if that what he said right, then that gives you the right to change it to meet your JW views, then. Wrong again Gene. Because of whom he was speaking to and because of the many many scriptures I quote which you ignore, it is certain what Jesus meant.
When he “answered” the pharisees, he could not have meant that God's holy kingdom was somehow inside those corrupt hypocrites whom Jesus condemned.
No, as many many other scriptures show, God's kingdom has Jesus as it's appointed king.
The king was in their midst. Yet, they remained clueless, as some still do today.Quote I have explained my belief that the Kingdom of GOD is within a person, and backed it up with logic and scriptures. –gene
WHERE
Where are these scriptures Gene?
We're trying to determine if your understanding of Luke 17:21 is correct or mine.
You haven't used ANY scriptures to support your understanding.
Quote And even ask you why does all theose people who you and the JW's preach as Happy members of the “KINGDOM” here on earth (TURN) as soon as the EVIL is released on the earth again. I really don't know what you're referring to. Why don't you find the scripture and post it. Then, at least you could say you've “backed it up with logic and scriptures.”
Quote I have shown you that it is because the true Kingdom of GOD was (NOT) in them. If this is in error then prove it. First, you'll have to explain what you mean. It's hard for me to disprove something neither of us even believe. Why don't you go find the scripture that supports whatever you're trying to say here. Then, maybe your question would be more clear.
I think i know what you're speaking of.
I don't think the Bible says anywhere that “members of the kingdom” will turn away.
(Remember, every scripture we've considered has shown that the kingdom is a government. The members of the kingdom [Jesus and holy ones who rule over the world and judge the world and rule with Christ as kings and priests] rule over other people, who are on earth. It is these ones who don't make up the kingdom, some of which will turn away, after the thousand years, during that test.
Nowhere does it say some of the kingdom turns away, does it? (My normal thing to do here would be to show you what the scripture actually says, but I'm considering just giving up on posting scripture and doing what you do….it's so much easier.)David………It more then just some , its the wold earth that turns to evil and comes against Jesus and the saints and they retract back ti Jeruselam and fire comes down from heave and devours them. My point was If this earths population is in the Kingdom of God as true citizens and all enjoying eternal life of bless as JW”S preach then What happened at the end and why did it happen to this wonderful Kingdom on earth. The only one that don't turn are Jesus and the Saints. Why do you think that is David. It was because they were the only one who had the true Kingdom of GOD (IN THEM)> If this is wrong then prove it David. With scripture or logic.
peace…………………….gene
Quote It more then just some , its the wold earth that turns to evil and comes against Jesus and the saints gene, I asked you for a scripture, anything. I've asked you to provide scriptures for your statements at least 50 times.
Why is it you are unable to do this?You say:
Quote its the wold earth that turns to evil
But since Jesus said: “My kingdom is no part of the world” then understand that if the world turns to evil, it doesn't mean God's kingdom does. God's kingdom is no part of wicked world.Quote My point was If this earths population is in the Kingdom of God
But I've never said this. Does scripture?
That's like saying: “If the United States' population is in the government of the U.S.”They're not. The kingdom is a government made up of the holy ones who rule over and judge the earth.
You tend to keep thinking of the kingdom as some physical thing, as castles or whatever. I really don't know why you keep thinking of it that way. The “heavenly kingdom” is a heavenly government. A government is people, not buildings.Quote My point was If this earths population is in the Kingdom of God as true citizens and all enjoying eternal life of bless as JW”S preach then What happened at the end and why did it happen to this wonderful Kingdom on earth. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. And the kingdom is not “on earth.” It's called the “heavenly kingdom.” Or how about this: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom.”
Nothing (no scripture that I know or that you can provide) says that something bad happens to God's kingdom.THE BIBLE does say that the thousand years, an unnumbered amount of people will follow Satan. But those who make up the kingdom (Jesus, holy ones) will not be tested again. They have been given immortality. It is the subjects of this kingdom (those on earth) who will be tested again. That is what JW's believe. (Not what you said.)
Gene, so that I know you're reading this (you often don't answer questions) can you give me some sign (a smiley face) in your next post to me.david
Quote The only one that don't turn are Jesus and the Saints. Well, while none of them “turn” there are others who don't turn as well. It is true that none who make up the kingdom will fall away, but nowhere does scripture say that everyone else follows satan.
As I've been discussing this with you, i've come across plenty of scriptures like the one below:
2 CORINTHIANS 1:21-22
“But he who guarantees that YOU and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.”“the spirit in our hearts.”
Many scriptures say things like this. But “spirit” does not equal “kindgom.”
I want to put things into a little bit of perspective for some folks.
Fact:
99% of the mass of the human body is made up of only six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.
So some of you, want to tell me, that our Almighty Creator does not know how to take a system of which He created, that is made up of oxegon, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus and make it Holy?
That is just ridiculous.
I think YHWH can handle His own created system of elements. All men will be saved!
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