Universal Salvation

[meerkat]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2008,05:11)

Hi Jodi, You should not confuse the refining fire of testing of God's people with the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Indeed no sin is allowed within the city gates of spiritual Jerusalem. Gehenna is the rubbish tip forever smoudering outside those city gates.

Nick,

Gehenna is the rubbish dump where dead bodies were thrown so that the carcus was disposed of to prevent disease – not living bodies to be killed – the body of sin and death is to be destroyed (death and hades) thrown into “lake of fire” lake is fire is the second death (lake of fire is symbolic – second death reality) just as the stars are angels (stars are symbolic , angels are reality) Revelation is a highly symbolic book and you can't take the symbols to be reality.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,05:10)

Nick………And you (ASSUME) GOD will not do what He wants to DO.  You makes it appear it's wrong to (ASSUME) GOD WILL do what He wants to do.” for God works (ALL THINGS) after the council of (HIS WILL) and if He is NOT WILLING (ANY PARISH) BUT all come to repentance”, Who are you to go against the WILL OF GOD. Nick…..to you salvation is an (OFFER) it is not a (WORK) of GOD But of Man By His so-called “free will” right, pure foolishness. In fact if anyone is rejecting the wedding feast it those who think they by their so-call “free wills” save them selves. peace……………..gene

GB,
We do our best to show what is written.
Not what is imagined by men.

You need to dot all the i's and cross all the t's if you are to say you are quoting God. Adding hopes and speculations is folly.

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
Indeed rubbish is disposed of and has no place in the sinless kingdom.
Only in Christ can we find that blessing

[meerkat]

Indeed Nick,

All the rubbish that you and I and all sinners (all have sinned) will be disposed of – when you accept Christ as saviour he helps to clean you if you follow him and learn truth and dispose of the anger, jealously, eminations, vanities – we do it now (and don't suffer the second death) or it is done after Christs coming.

[meerkat]

Hi Jodi,

Thanks for the welcome.

[NickHassan]

I see MK,
What of rev 20 and 21?
It seems men are judged.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 08 2008,05:26)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2008,05:10) Nick………And you (ASSUME) GOD will not do what He wants to DO.  You makes it appear it's wrong to (ASSUME) GOD WILL do what He wants to do.” for God works (ALL THINGS) after the council of (HIS WILL) and if He is NOT WILLING (ANY PARISH) BUT all come to repentance”, Who are you to go against the WILL OF GOD. Nick…..to you salvation is an (OFFER) it is not a (WORK) of GOD But of Man By His so-called “free will” right, pure foolishness. In fact if anyone is rejecting the wedding feast it those who think they by their so-call “free wills” save them selves. peace……………..gene GB, We do our best to show what is written. Not what is imagined by men. You need to dot all the i's and cross all the t's if you are to say you are quoting God. Adding hopes and speculations is folly.

Nick………Then show us where what we wrote is wrong them, not just useless speculations and assumption. Show us your proof of the errors Brother. Dot in the eyes and crossing the tees is just another of you ploys to get rid of confronting the truth about whats said. You need to do better than making speculation based on you wrong theology. If you are to convince us of where were wrong.

peace………….gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
You give God your plan to follow and try to find doctrinal justifications for your ideas.
Listen to scripture and submit to it as truth.
You were not appointed to change it.

[Jodi]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 07 2008,10:24)

Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 08 2008,05:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 07 2008,10:00) GB, Have all men repented and we missed it? We work out our salvation, even after we are saved, in fear and trembling. But not all are saved though God showed His loving mercy by sending His beloved Son. Those that follow God through fear and trembling are not following according to the Spirit, but rather through their flesh and the sake of their flesh. God might draw people to Him through such means as using their fears, but when God's Spirit begins to do its work, fear in the Lord is removed and replaced with love and understanding. Hi Jodi, Was Paul among the carnal ones? Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

TREMBLING

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 5156 Browse Lexicon
Original WordWord Origin
trovmoßfrom (5141)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
TromosNone
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
trom'-os Noun Masculine
Definition

1. a trembling or quaking with fear
2. with fear and trembling, used to describe the anxiety of one who distrusts his ability completely to meet all requirements, but religiously does his utmost to fulfil his duty

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Isn't this scripture saying we should fear trying to work out our salvation on our own, that it is not for us to work out salvation but rather God working His Spirit in us that brings it upon.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
It seems to say check carefully every step that we walk in Christ.
Presumption is fatal.
1cor 10
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Those who boast of their salvation and claim to thus be led of the Spirit yet still teach of their own ideas make shipwreck of their faith.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Colossians 3:16
Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

[meerkat]

Nick,

Yes men are judged – 1 Peter 4:1-6

Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1Pe 4:2That he no longer should live the rest of [his] time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1Pe 4:3For the time past of [our] life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

1Pe 4:4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with [them] to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of [you]:

1Pe 4:5Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1Pe 4:6For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

men are judged by what they sow, if they sow to the flesh they reap destruction and death, however that is not the end – the end is where after being judged for the works of the flesh, they live (Jesus is the resurrection and the life) according to God in the Spirit.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……Another ploy to change subject matter Jodi posted the fear and trembling thing right, instead of excepting it you simple change subject matter , But Hears something to consider in your post , Not one of those Israelites were converted were they, For (all) fell below the age of twenty years, Not one went in except Joshua and Caleb because as it says they had a different Spirit on them,and who here thinks he stands is is not you, through thinking that because you push fear and trembling you stand by it. Nick it seems you put your faith in fear and trembling, rather then in God. Remember a fear full person is a unbelieving one, thats why they are tied together in scripture fear is always attached to the unbelieving. Why is that , is it not because Fear Has torment and nothing is perfect in Fear , But we are perfect in Love and Faith. NOT FEAR.

peace……………gene

[NickHassan]

So Gb,
We should believe you and not Paul??

[NickHassan]

Hi MK,
All men are not in the Spirit that they might live to God.
You have to come to Jesus to find that life.
Peter writes to the saved.

Those who refuse the mercy of God in Christ may remain under His wrath.

Jn3
35The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

[942767]

Hi meerkat:

Please explain the following statement. You say:

1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

men are judged by what they sow, if they sow to the flesh they reap destruction and death, however that is not the end – the end is where after being judged for the works of the flesh, they live (Jesus is the resurrection and the life) according to God in the Spirit.

How, after reaping death and destruction for what you have sown, do you then live in the Spirit?

God Bless

[meerkat]

I agree that the wrath of God abides on the unblieving while they are unbelieving however what scripture says is that upon repentance and obedience mercy is shown, it says mercy endures forever – God is calling an elect – the elect will rule with Jesus, and the point of ruling is not to torment for eternity – the mercy that is shown to us is to be shown to all, but each in their own order

1st Christ

2nd those that are his at his coming

3rd The rest to be born of the Spirit

We have no control over our physical birth and we do not spiritually birth ourselves – it is the Spirit

[942767]

Hi:

This is what the Lord has said:

Quote

Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Quote

Printed from the Blue Letter Bible Lexicon Results Strong's G622 – apollymi ἀπόλλυμι Transliteration apollymi Pronunciation ä-po'l-lü-mē (Key) Part of Speech verb Root Word (Etymology) from G575 and the base of G3639 TDNT Reference 1:394,67 Vines View Entry Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to destroy a) to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin b) render useless c) to kill d) to declare that one must be put to death e) metaph. to devote or give over to eternal misery in hell f) to perish, to be lost, ruined, destroyed 2) to destroy a) to lose

[meerkat]

Nick

What is flesh is flesh – if you sow to the flesh you reap destruction – Jesus came to save the lost

Matt 18:11  For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Mat 18:12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Mat 18:13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that [sheep], than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

Mat 18:14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

The meaning of the word used for the lost is

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: – destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Jesus came to save those that were destroyed/perished

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