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Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 08 2007,14:23) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2007,23:43) Hi Tim,
He was there despite his mischief and God was still on speaking terms. What evidence of a previous expulsion do you have? When God says no then does He not mean it?
Revelation shows the final expulsion with his angels.
Hi Nick,
Wasn't satan in the garden of eden disguised as a snake?
That was long before he tormented Job.Tim
Hi Tim,
Yes. His rebellion was in the beginning, He is a liar and a murderer from the beginning and before visible creation.Rev 12
“9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. “Hi Tim
Quote You don't really believe that satan has more power than our God do you? No Tim. But I dont think many of us have the same faith as Job. At least not I.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Kupchuk @ Mar. 07 2007,07:17) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 06 2007,22:31) Hi All: While I agree that God desires for all mankind to be saved, God will not force any one to come into a relationship with Him. We are called into a relationship with him and come freely if we so desire, and if any one is not saved, it is not because God has not done every thing possible to save him, but it was the indviduals choice not to be saved.
“For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world: but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: BUT HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT IS CONDEMNED ALREADY, BECAUSE HE HATH NOT BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD”. (John 3:16-18)
It appears that he has to believe in order to be saved to me. What do you think?
God Bless
Isaiah 46:8-11, …Saying, All My councel shall be confirmed, and ALL MY DESIRE WILL I DO.
…Indeed, I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about. I formed, Indeed, I will do it.Is God not able to do all he “desires”? Is mans so-called “free will” more powerfull than Gods will?
Hi Kupchuk:Yes, God is able to do whatever he desires, and we know what he desires to do by his Word, and he will not do anything contrary to what he has spoken.
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering not willing that any man should perish but that all should come to repentance”. (1 Peter 3:9)
“For the wages of sin is death but the gift of life is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”. (Rom. 6:23)
God Bless
Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 08 2007,19:04) Hi Tim Quote You don't really believe that satan has more power than our God do you? No Tim. But I dont think many of us have the same faith as Job. At least not I.
Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,We agree.
And because God has more power than satan, satan can only do what God permits him to do. The same as we puny humans can only do what God permits us to do.Why then did you consider my statement unfair?
Tim
Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 09 2007,01:53) Hi Tim Well it wasnt your statement Tim. If you know what I mean
Hugs
Phoenix
I understand now.
Thank you.Tim
Quote (Kupchuk @ Mar. 07 2007,07:06) Quote Hi Nick, Judgement is just that, not condemnation, it is just the penalty. If it is the “Lake of fire” (the second death), then when death is abolished, all will live. If all will be saved then Christ death means nothing. If Jesus came to just free men from some torment then He could have stayed in heaven. Eventually all would be saved and when they were in God's presence they would forget their former torment anyway.
Universal Salvation tramples on the blood of Christ and degrades His sacrifice.
Quote (sscott @ Mar. 12 2007,03:27) Kupchuk,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi Nick, Judgement is just that, not condemnation, it is just the penalty. If it is the “Lake of fire” (the second death), then when death is abolished, all will live. If all will be saved then Christ death means nothing. If Jesus came to just free men from some torment then He could have stayed in heaven. Eventually all would be saved and when they were in God's presence they would forget their former torment anyway.
Universal Salvation tramples on the blood of Christ and degrades His sacrifice.
Hi sscott, I don't see how universal salvation tramples on the blood of Christ. Christ died for ALL mankind, He justified all mankind. If anything, He failed if only some are saved, this would be a failure if anything is. Don't you think that if He died for ALL mankind, then all should be saved to accomplish what was intended.Quote (sscott @ Mar. 12 2007,03:27) Kupchuk,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi Nick, Judgement is just that, not condemnation, it is just the penalty. If it is the “Lake of fire” (the second death), then when death is abolished, all will live. Eventually all would be saved and when they were in God's presence they would forget their former torment anyway.
Hi sscott,But eventually they all would not be saved if not for Christ's sacrifice.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 12 2007,12:14) Quote (sscott @ Mar. 12 2007,03:27) Quote (Kupchuk @ Mar. 07 2007,07:06) Quote Hi Nick, Judgement is just that, not condemnation, it is just the penalty. If it is the “Lake of fire” (the second death), then when death is abolished, all will live. Eventually all would be saved and when they were in God's presence they would forget their former torment anyway.
Hi sscott,But eventually they all would not be saved if not for Christ's sacrifice.
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
Tim
Hi Tim,
It is available to all on one condition.
They must put faith in The Son of God and obey him.
Men have a million ways of refusing the offer and ignoring this hope.HI Nick,
Then why does that verse not say (can be the saviour of all men who obey him.)?
It specifically says ” who IS the saviour of ALL men.” As well as, and “specially of those that believe.”If he “is the saviour of all men”, then he has to save all men or he failed in the one task that his father gave him.
I most assuredly will not be the one that claims that Jesus failed.
If men put their faith in him and obey him, they will be saved while they are living.
That is a tremendous blessing. But I rest assured in the belief that Jesus will accomplish the task
that he came to earth to accomplish.And I am not Jehovah WItness.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 12 2007,19:46) HI Nick, Then why does that verse not say (can be the saviour of all men who obey him.)?
It specifically says ” who IS the saviour of ALL men.” As well as, and “specially of those that believe.”If he “is the saviour of all men”, then he has to save all men or he failed in the one task that his father gave him.
I most assuredly will not be the one that claims that Jesus failed.
If men put their faith in him and obey him, they will be saved while they are living.
That is a tremendous blessing. But I rest assured in the belief that Jesus will accomplish the task
that he came to earth to accomplish.And I am not Jehovah WItness.
Tim
Hi Tim:My understanding for the verse stated this way is that Jesus has paid the penalty that is against all men for having transgressed God's law.
Hebrews 2:9 states: “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that HE BY THE GRACE OF GOD SHOULD TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN”. And so, he is the saviour of all men if they choose to be saved.
The Judgment for the first death has been satisfied by the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, but there is a second death for those who choose to be saved. That judgment they will pay for themselves. (Rev. 20:11-15)
God Bless
Hi Tim:
The last sentence should read: “but there is a second death for those who choose not to be saved.”
Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 12 2007,19:46) HI Nick, Then why does that verse not say (can be the saviour of all men who obey him.)?
It specifically says ” who IS the saviour of ALL men.” As well as, and “specially of those that believe.”If he “is the saviour of all men”, then he has to save all men or he failed in the one task that his father gave him.
I most assuredly will not be the one that claims that Jesus failed.
If men put their faith in him and obey him, they will be saved while they are living.
That is a tremendous blessing. But I rest assured in the belief that Jesus will accomplish the task
that he came to earth to accomplish.And I am not Jehovah WItness.
Tim
TimothyVIJust a thought!
The scriptures say that Jesus left the 99 to get the one!
So if the 99 were saved and were his and he got the one wouldnt that be 100%?
Any thoughts?
Blesings
Hi Tim,
Jesus fulfilled his task completely giving all men the opportunity to sup at the wedding feast.
But faith would not be faith without choice.Lk 14
” 16But He said to him, “(A)A man was giving a big dinner, and he invited many;
17and at the dinner hour he sent his slave to say to those who had been invited, 'Come; for everything is ready now.'18″But they all alike began to make excuses. The first one said to him, 'I have bought a piece of land and I need to go out and look at it; please consider me excused.'
19″Another one said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out; please consider me excused.'
20″Another one said, '(B)I have married a wife, and for that reason I cannot come.'
21″And the slave came back and reported this to his master. Then the head of the household became angry and said to his slave, 'Go out at once into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.'
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 12 2007,20:07) Hi Tim,
Same question. If all are saved then in what way are some more saved than others?
Hi Nick,The “more saved” are the ones that get to reap the benefits of being saved in this life.
The ones that are not saved in this life have a pretty bleak future to look forward to.Tim
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 13 2007,08:16) Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 12 2007,19:46) HI Nick, Then why does that verse not say (can be the saviour of all men who obey him.)?
It specifically says ” who IS the saviour of ALL men.” As well as, and “specially of those that believe.”If he “is the saviour of all men”, then he has to save all men or he failed in the one task that his father gave him.
I most assuredly will not be the one that claims that Jesus failed.
If men put their faith in him and obey him, they will be saved while they are living.
That is a tremendous blessing. But I rest assured in the belief that Jesus will accomplish the task
that he came to earth to accomplish.And I am not Jehovah WItness.
Tim
TimothyVIJust a thought!
The scriptures say that Jesus left the 99 to get the one!
So if the 99 were saved and were his and he got the one wouldnt that be 100%?
Any thoughts?
Blesings
Hi Worshipping Jesus,I think that is exactly what that parable teaches.
Just like the parable of the woman that wouldn't give up until she found the one coin that was lost.Thank you,
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 13 2007,10:03) Hi Tim,
Jesus fulfilled his task completely giving all men the opportunity to sup at the wedding feast.
But faith would not be faith without choice.Lk 14
” 16But He said to him, “(A)A man was giving a big dinner, and he invited many;
17and at the dinner hour he sent his slave to say to those who had been invited, 'Come; for everything is ready now.'18″But they all alike began to make excuses. The first one said to him, 'I have bought a piece of land and I need to go out and look at it; please consider me excused.'
19″Another one said, 'I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I am going to try them out; please consider me excused.'
20″Another one said, '(B)I have married a wife, and for that reason I cannot come.'
21″And the slave came back and reported this to his master. Then the head of the household became angry and said to his slave, 'Go out at once into the streets and lanes of the city and bring in here the poor and crippled and blind and lame.'
Hi Nick,I guess that I do not believe that this parable has anything to do with anyones' ultimate salvation;
It is about the Jews being invited first, being the chosen people of God, but they denied him. So the offer was given to the gentiles.
Tim
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 13 2007,03:18) Quote (TimothyVI @ Mar. 12 2007,19:46) HI Nick, Then why does that verse not say (can be the saviour of all men who obey him.)?
It specifically says ” who IS the saviour of ALL men.” As well as, and “specially of those that believe.”If he “is the saviour of all men”, then he has to save all men or he failed in the one task that his father gave him.
I most assuredly will not be the one that claims that Jesus failed.
If men put their faith in him and obey him, they will be saved while they are living.
That is a tremendous blessing. But I rest assured in the belief that Jesus will accomplish the task
that he came to earth to accomplish.And I am not Jehovah WItness.
Tim
Hi Tim:My understanding for the verse stated this way is that Jesus has paid the penalty that is against all men for having transgressed God's law.
Hebrews 2:9 states: “But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that HE BY THE GRACE OF GOD SHOULD TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN”. And so, he is the saviour of all men if they choose to be saved.
The Judgment for the first death has been satisfied by the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, but there is a second death for those who choose to be saved. That judgment they will pay for themselves. (Rev. 20:11-15)
God Bless
Hi 94,That is the way that most of orthadox christianity understands that verse. But they all add the “if they choose to be saved”, which is not stated.
Tim
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