Understanding Revelation

Participant

Hey TK

Have you read Lev. 18:22 lately?

Georg

October 24, 2009 at 1:53 pm#153281

Participant

If you are going back to the old testament you can have hundreds of wives, conubines etc.! If you are following the Levitical Law you have rejected the saving grace of Jesus and his cleansing work for all who will receive. The old covenant is gone. Its replaced by the New Covenant written in the blood of Jesus. What is gone is gone. The old is passed away. The New is for “whosoever” cometh to drink from Jesus. Abstaining from anything means nothing. Accepting your cleanliness by faith in Christ and his finished work is the only way to be clean. The Law didn't cleanse anyone anyway! TK

October 24, 2009 at 2:55 pm#153285

Participant

You are mistaking, although we read about the many wife's and concubines Jacob, David, Solomon, and others had, that was never intended by God; I'm sure you know that.
Jesus still called adultery, adultery; he still called murder, murder, and I'm sure he hasn't changed his mind on homosexuality. God doesn't hate the sinner, or none of us would have a prayer, but he hates the sin, all sins.
You are right, the old covenant is gone, but then, God never made a covenant with the Gentiles, only with the Israelites; are you an Israelite?
Did not Jesus tell the woman caught in adultery, “go and sin no more”?
God can only forgive you your sins if you confess them, and try to overcome them.
To think that you can continue in your sins and still be alright with God, is pure nonsense.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 ¶ What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Think about it.

Georg

October 24, 2009 at 5:38 pm#153309

Participant

Quote (georg @ Oct. 25 2009,02:55)

Think about it.

Georg

Georg: How can you say something that obviously was allowed by God (multiple wives and concubines) in three great God respecting men was never intended by God? What do you mean God never intended for them to choose multiple wives or mistresses? Will you lie for the sake of your doctrines? God never said adultery was a sin! Paul might have but neither God nor Jesus ever said adultery was a sin. There is no list of sins! Only what you make up or hear from some misguided preacher that claims something that you do is a sin. Lot was a righteous man who got drunk and had sex with both daughters which produced offspring.Abraham was married and had sex with his maid. He was called a righteous man by believing God said he was! Was Lot considered a sinner? Did he ever ask forgiveness for that act? Jesus said if you hate you have murdered in your heart. Jesus said God is love, you say God hates! Sin is not an action its a belief. You say God never made a covenant with the Gentiles, only with the Israelites. Another blatant lie!! All human beings are covered by the blood of the lamb. The gift of Jesus is for all who believe. There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. All have been cleansed through Jesus, who will accept and believe. If they don't believe they are in union and clean then they are separated in their minds which is sin.
If God did not make a covenant with you I pitty you. Is that the Gospel for you? Telling others they have no covenant with God? I have very little tollerance for religion.
If God tells you your sin is forgiven you either believe that truth or die in error/sin. Sin is believing an error that you are separated from God! Sin is wrong thinking! Thinking you are separated from God is a sin/error! How can you be separated from a God that is everywhere?
No act you do can connect you to God. No act you do can separate you from God. Only if you believe in your mind that you have done something that has separated from God(who is everywhere)can you live the illusion that you are separated. The Truth will Bless you, TK

October 24, 2009 at 5:43 pm#153311

Participant

Hi TK,
When was this magic application of the blood of the lamb applied to all sinners?

We are not of such new age doctrines here.

Take care not to offend God's people.

October 24, 2009 at 6:39 pm#153317

Participant

Nick: Who is the blood of the Lamb not for? When Jesus said whosoever shall come and drink…what did he mean? John 6:54..whoso eateth and drinketh….he that heareth my word and believth has passed from death to life…..There are far to many scriptures to quote that say that the Gospel, and all the Blessings of God along with the cleansing power of the blood are for any, all, and whosoever will. I can't believe you said that. When you say take care not to offend God's people I take it you are one of God people? One of the elect. One that is chosen. I was told 50 years ago that Jesus saves anyone that comes to him. Jesus died to save the world from selective doctrines just like yours. If the blood is not applied to all sinners who come to Christ, and one comes for forgiveness which is by faith, how would they know if they are in or out? I'm blindsided by this one, I never expected from Nick!

October 24, 2009 at 6:46 pm#153319

Participant

Hi TK,
Whosoever believes in him.[Jn3]

October 24, 2009 at 10:52 pm#153360

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 25 2009,05:38)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 25 2009,02:55)

Think about it.

Georg

t k, straighten out your feathers.

You should be careful who you call a liar, you will choke on those words one day.

Point one: not my doctrine.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Point two: not my doctrine either.
Mat 5:27 ¶ Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Jhn 8:3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
Jhn 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Jhn 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Get your facts straight; Lot did not have sex with his daughters, he was to drunk, they had sex with him.
Show me were I said “God hates”; I said “God hates the sin” not the sinner.
You call me a blatant liar, I forgive you your ignorance; Jesus made a new covenant, that means the old was done away; now you show me were God has made a covenant other than the Israelites.
You not only have very little tolerance for religion, you have very little understanding to match it.

Point three; not my doctrine either.
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1Jo 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Yes, the truth has blessed me, and it will bless you too, once you believe it.

Georg

October 25, 2009 at 9:32 am#153418

Participant

Georg: I see now that only a man that wants to know the real Truth and is willing to release old religious doctrines and beliefs to find it, will ever be able to come to the Truth of God in Jesus.
The mis-statement you made that I called you a blatant liar is typical of how you read scripture. I pointed out that something you said was a blatant lie! That is very different than saying you are a blatant liar!
The New Covenant is for “whosoever” will accept and believe the work of Jesus! There is no Jew, or Gentile, or bond or free or male or female, or ISRAELITE, they are all ONE in Christ. TK

October 25, 2009 at 4:03 pm#153430

Participant

How convenient of you to ignore the scriptures I gave you.
You apparently don't even understand your own languish; how does it differ from calling me a liar, or what I said was a lie? in any case, I wont hold it against you.
Your last statement, the new covenant, shows that you don't know what your talking about.
You say it is the covenant God made with all people, and than you say “whosoever” will except it. The truth is, not everybody does, which means, the covenant is not for everybody.
This covenant we are under now, is a covenant by sacrifice, and obviously not for everybody, it is for those that were predestined to be called.

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

And you know what Jesus said, “many are called, but few are chosen”; that simply means, that even from the once that were called, not all answered the call; why? for the simple reason that this was a call to sacrifice, to endure to the end, just as Jesus did. His sacrifice was the covenant made by his blood, and this is what the bible says about the saints that followed Jesus.

Ps. 50:5 Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.
Ps. 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

As you know, the Romans were good in making sport of killing.
And have you ever seen the tools of torture used by Antichrist?

When Jesus begins to rule the world, he will make a new covenant for all people.

Georg

October 26, 2009 at 9:40 am#153578

Participant

Georg: You have chosen a way to believe the scriptures that suits youself. The way that you beleive is for you. It is not for me. I believed much the same way the first ten years of my Bible study because I was still connected to one type of church or another. The last 20 years or so that I have been studying alone with God I have found his love, his peace to all, joy to all, blessing to all. I have found the path that Jesus laid out to be easy, and lite. He has taken my burdens and lightend my load pertaining to pleasing God. I have entered into his rest and found peace. In the world you will find tribulation but in God, peace, good will toward men. I have been healed of every sickness or disease that has come or will come. I share the love of God with God at all times. He will never leave me or forsake me ever. I have no fear for fear brings wrath. The world will suffer wrath. Those in the truth have peace with God. Those who believe in sin will recieve a sinners reward. Those who believe that Jesus took away their sin and cleansed them wholly, will receive the blessings of God. You are correct that not everybody gets the reward but it is for everybody who will come and believe to receive it. I pity the destruction you see for your future. That is not the Gospel/good news that is for a believer. When your Jesus comes and begins to rule your world you will understand what I just wrote. No one could be more anti-christ than one that doesn't believe Jesus is here, in us now, ruling the new covenant! Bless you, TK

October 27, 2009 at 2:38 am#153656

Participant

I have chosen to believe the word of God, since you don't, there is no point in debating the word with you.

Georg

October 27, 2009 at 4:10 am#153682

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 26 2009,21:40)

T.K. If you believe that you are not sinning, John tells you that the truth is not in you. Also, all have fallen short of the glory of God. I have read all these post that you made and I tell you calling my Husband's understanding of the Scripture, a lie, has really upset me. How dare you,are you above all of us? Well I don't think so. We are all sinners. Yet. One day we will be like Christ. And Christ did die for all of us. But if I sin willingly like some of the gays will, I will not see Paradise. If someone does sin willingly He or She tramples on Christ Sacrifice. My Husband is about the nicest person that I ever came to know. So you owe Him an apology. But I guess I better not hold my breath. You act like you are the only one that knows it all, which you don't. Destruction that He will see? You are really full of it. And what makes you think, that my Husband thinks that Jesus is not our Savior. You don't believe you don't sin? Well my friend I have news for you, you just did by judging my Husband. I am sitting here and shaking my head in unbelief of what you said. Also no where in the Bible does it say that now we don't sin any more. Read what Paul said. What it does say, is that Christ is our Mediator to go to the Throne of God and ask for the forgiveness of those sins. For that fact I am forever thankful for our Savior Jesus Christ. He is our perfect Sacrifice and no other is needed. But to think all is automatic is nonsense.
Irene

October 27, 2009 at 10:25 am#153718

Participant

Georg & Irene: I apologize for anything I wrote that was against either of you personally! Thats never my intention. Sometimes we have bad days. When you say we are all sinners you have included everyone and that is not true. You say that if someone does sin willingly they trample on Christ's sacrifice.I believe that if they believe they have sinned or are in sin then they are rejecting the sacrifice that cleanses them from ALL sin! Take the scriptures(John 1:8-9-10, you so often quote) v:8–If we say we have no sin– is true before we use v:9–if we confess our sin he is FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE US OUR SIN! Verse 10 also must be before v9 or verse 9 is a lie. If you are forgiven of sin you have no sin!
Anyone that commiteth sin is a servant of sin–
The Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world John 1:29
Whosoever is born of God doeth not commit sin 1John 3:9
Jesus was manifest to take away our sin 1John 3:5
Jesus is the propitiation for our sin and the sin of the whole world—- EVEN GAYS! !1John 2:2
We are saved from the wrath of God through Jesus Rom5:9
by the obedience of one shall all be made righteous—Rom5:19
How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer in sin? Rom 6:2
…now, being made free from sin…Rom 6:22
There are many more scriptures that tell us we are made sinless, spotless, and righteous in Christ. If one believes they are in sin they will die in their sin/error. If one believes that Jesus washed away our sin and took away the sin of the world then one is righteous by faith. Righteousness, sinlessness, and perfection before God are through the blood of Jesus by faith or BELIEVING! If one doesn't believe he is clean in God then he is in sin/separation from God. There is no sin in God. Are we in God? There is no sin in Christ! Are we in Christ? There is no sin in Jesus! Are we in Jesus? I believe that we are righteous by faith! To you both,IN LOVE, TK

October 27, 2009 at 9:35 pm#153813

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Oct. 27 2009,22:25)

Hi Tim Kraft,

If you have noticed there is a progression away from sin in 1John.

Starting at 1John 1:8: “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves”…

Progressing to 1John 3:9: “Whoever is born of God does not commit sin;
For his seed remainith in him: and he cannot sin (AS A USUAL PRACTICE),
because he is borne of God.”

Finishing in 1John 5:18: “We know that whosoever is borne of God SINNETH NOT;
But he that is begotten of God keepeth (GUARDS) himself, and that wicked one (Satan)
toucheth him not.

The only way to be perfect (Matt. 5:44) IS TO STOP SINNING! And (I believe)
this can only be done with the Holy Spirit tabernacleing on the inside (Heb. 8:10).

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.com

October 27, 2009 at 10:10 pm#153818

Participant

Ed J: You say the only way to be perfect is to stop sinning! God says we have been made perfect in Christ. Are we not the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ? Did the lamb of God take away the sin of the world? Or not? Jesus was manifest to take away our sin! Did he accomplish that? How shall we who are dead to sin live any longer in sin?(Rom6:2)
If sin is something that you do or don't do how can someone live in sin? Do you mean live in doing something good or bad?
The only way to be perfect (what ever you mean by that) is by faith (believing) that he has made you perfect. How did Abraham earn his righteousness (or perfection)? Maybe because of his good works of having sex with his maid!NO! He was perfect by faith!!
Noah was the only righteous man on earth, he just had a drinking problem! NO MATTER, HE WAS RIGHTEOUS BY FAITH. Sin is not what you do. Sin is what you believe!! If you believe you are in sin or separated from God you are! In your mind. Not in truth! You cannot be righteous and be a sinner. If God made you righteous then you are righteous NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO!
Satan is not trying to get us to sin. He is deception that is trying to get us to believe incorrectly that we are in sin. You are not in sin no matter what you do or don't do. You are not a sinner. You were in sin by not knowing that God never left you. God will never leave you or forsake you. He everywhere where would he go? Sin is believing that one can be separated from God for any reason.
The body of Christ must wake up to the sinless perfection that Jesus bought and paid for with his blood. God bless you, TK

October 27, 2009 at 10:12 pm#153820

Participant

Hi TK,
So what you believe about yourself you become?
Sounds like new age magic to me and not faith.

October 27, 2009 at 10:18 pm#153822

Participant

Nick: Shame on you Nick. That is not what I said. If you were to believe what God has done for you through Jesus you would also be perfect and free from sin. You have chosen your way to believe. I have chosen to believe God. You really can't ignor that many scriptures can you? Its is a free gift of perfection offered to whosoever will accept and believe. ANYONE! Bless you, TK

October 27, 2009 at 10:20 pm#153825

Participant

Hi TK,
So it happens-kapow- immediately you intellectually accept and understand it?
Seems like Peter in his second letter ch 1 had a different view.
Jesus urged us to seek, knock, ask-no magic

October 27, 2009 at 10:44 pm#153831