Understanding Revelation

[Pastry]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 22 2010,13:36)

georg on the contrary i understand it very well ,my mom was JW and i have read many JW books , but my understanding is that all what it says in revelation has to apply. you have to understand it whit a open mind ,not a preconceived one, you fighting with two concepts  and you will never see it this way,look them separately in there on reality. of truth. Pierre

That explains it!

Georg

[Pastry]

Pierre

I was right, wasn't I?

“””It apparently makes you feel good to see your name in every column, period.

Georg

georg

i will now leave the forum ,and prove you wrong,

so good bye

Pierre “””

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2010,19:27)

Pierre I was right, wasn't I? “””It apparently makes you feel good to see your name in every column, period. Georg georg i will now leave the forum ,and prove you wrong, so good bye Pierre “”” Georg

hi georg

i am glad to see you back

to tell the truth wen i told you that i will leave the forum i did

i did not told you for along did I;

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 26 2010,14:30)

Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 26 2010,19:27) Pierre I was right, wasn't I? “””It apparently makes you feel good to see your name in every column, period. Georg georg i will now leave the forum ,and prove you wrong, so good bye Pierre “”” Georg   hi georg i am glad to see you back to tell the truth wen i told you that i will leave the forum i did i did not told you for along did I; Pierre

Your cousin!?

[terraricca]

all

my understanding of revelation 17, and Eze23 and Rev 18 and 19 and 20 is different of all what i have seen

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2010,17:39)

all my understanding of revelation 17, and Eze23  and Rev 18 and 19 and 20 is different of all what i have seen Pierre

Why not be specific?

Georg

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 18 2010,17:58)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2010,17:39) all my understanding of revelation 17, and Eze23  and Rev 18 and 19 and 20 is different of all what i have seen Pierre Why not be specific? Georg

georg

I don't know yet were to start

Pierre

you never answer my PM's ?

[Tim Kraft]

To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….! We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead.

Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life:

and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin)

V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness.

There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works!

Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK

[terraricca]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 19 2010,03:48)

To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….!  We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead. Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin) V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness. There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works! Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK

tk
you have it wrong,first if the holy spirit shows you understanding,by refusing to accept it ,you will lose it ,

the holy spirit does Gods will if you do not respond then you are rejecting Gods will.

so all or most of your charade does not stand.

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,20:48)

To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….!  We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead. Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin) V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness. There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works! Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK

Tim

By what “works” were these dead judged?
Why did Paul say this?

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Do you even understand what the “White Throne” judgment is? It is the millennium, it is the 1000 year reign of Christ, it is during that time that all the dead in their grave will come forth and be taught; it is then when your works count since it will be no longer by faith; it is then when you can get your name into the book of life, if not, you die again.

“””V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness.”””

What kind of nonsense is this? where do you read this?

Georg

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 18 2010,14:43)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 18 2010,17:58) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 17 2010,17:39) all my understanding of revelation 17, and Eze23  and Rev 18 and 19 and 20 is different of all what i have seen Pierre Why not be specific? Georg georg I don't know yet were to start Pierre you never answer my PM's ?

Pierre

I checked my messages, there were only two from you; one about Constantine, the other about Phil. 3;13-15.

Georg

[terraricca]

georg

it is coming to your PM

[Tim Kraft]

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 19 2010,17:22)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,20:48) To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….!  We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead. Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin) V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness. There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works! Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK Tim By what “works” were these dead judged? Why did Paul say this? Eph 2:8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:   Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.   Do you even understand what the “White Throne” judgment is? It is the millennium, it is the 1000 year reign of Christ, it is during that time that all the dead in their grave will come forth and be taught; it is then when your works count since it will be no longer by faith; it is then when you can get your name into the book of life, if not, you die again. “””V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness.””” What kind of nonsense is this? where do you read this? Georg

George: Bless you; IMO those dead in trespasses and sin are those who remain in the old law which subsisted of physical works for perfection unto God.

The law required works or good deeds or things done to try to appease God in the old testament. These works of the law are sin and death.

The new testament consists of faith in the words from God that Jesus gave to whosoever would believe. The perfection we desire is gifted to us by Jesus' words when accepted by faith. Faith in God is life.

Paul said, spiritually speaking,…I died, it is no longer me that liveth but Christ(Gods annointing) dwelling in me…! That is the resurrection of Jesus in a man. Its awareness of truth. Jesus said,…I am the ressurection and the life…!

Eph 2:9…not of works (physical good or bad deeds which make a man feel like he has done good or not so good) that is where there is boasting.

There is no boasting in Faith. Its the same gifts of God through Jesus for whosoever will believe.

Those who have not accepted purification unto God by faith in Jesus are dead in their tresspasses and sin.

Those who have accepted their purification unto God through Jesus' words have passed from death to life. They have been raised from the dead. The word of God/Jesus has come forth and cleansed them and raised them from the dead works of the law.

No more effort or trying to appease God. It has all been done for those who believe/accept Jesus, The sabbath rest of God.

You might want to read these passages again, slowly, so you can see. Read 12 again, …the books were opened and the book of life…and the “dead” were judged by the books(not the book of life) according to their “dead works, deeds, efforts for purification, works by law.
There is no judgment for those in Christ or Jesus! Because Jesus the word of God has already judged the believers as perfect unto God.

The lake of fire is for unbelievers!! Not believers in Jesus. Maybe try the KJV of the Bible before you call this nonsense! TK

[terraricca]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 21 2010,05:15)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 19 2010,17:22) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,20:48) To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….!  We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead. Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin) V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness. There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works! Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK Tim By what “works” were these dead judged? Why did Paul say this? Eph 2:8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:   Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.   Do you even understand what the “White Throne” judgment is? It is the millennium, it is the 1000 year reign of Christ, it is during that time that all the dead in their grave will come forth and be taught; it is then when your works count since it will be no longer by faith; it is then when you can get your name into the book of life, if not, you die again. “””V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness.””” What kind of nonsense is this? where do you read this? Georg George: Bless you;  IMO those dead in trespasses and sin are those who remain in the old law which subsisted of physical works for perfection unto God. The law required works or good deeds or things done to try to appease God in the old testament. These works of the law are sin and death. The new testament consists of faith in the words from God that Jesus gave to whosoever would believe. The perfection we desire is gifted to us by Jesus' words when accepted by faith. Faith in God is life. Paul said, spiritually speaking,…I died, it is no longer me that liveth but Christ(Gods annointing) dwelling in me…! That is the resurrection of Jesus in a man. Its awareness of truth. Jesus said,…I am the ressurection and the life…! Eph 2:9…not of works (physical good or bad deeds which make a man feel like he has done good or not so good) that is where there is boasting. There is no boasting in Faith. Its the same gifts of God through Jesus for whosoever will believe. Those who have not accepted purification unto God by faith in Jesus are dead in their tresspasses and sin. Those who have accepted  their purification unto God through Jesus' words have passed from death to life. They have been raised from the dead. The word of God/Jesus has come forth and cleansed them and raised them from the dead works of the law. No more effort or trying to appease God. It has all been done for those who believe/accept Jesus, The sabbath rest of God. You might want to read these passages again, slowly, so you can see. Read 12 again, …the books were opened and the book of life…and the “dead” were judged by the books(not the book of life) according to their “dead works, deeds, efforts for purification, works by law. There is no judgment for those in Christ or Jesus! Because Jesus the word of God has already judged the believers as perfect unto God. The lake of fire is for unbelievers!! Not believers in Jesus. Maybe try the KJV of the Bible before you call this nonsense! TK

TK

this could help you??
Mt 25:37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
Mt 25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
Mt 25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
Mt 25:40 “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
Mt 25:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Pierre

[Tim Kraft]

Pierre: If a person thinks that good works of kindness will cleanse them and save their soul, then they are dead to the truth. The truth of Jesus, by faith, quickens us and makes us alive in Christ. Can you grasp this. Works and good deeds from a pure heart of love is Godly. Works and good deeds to pacify God or to help in your salvation are dead works. Your works have nothing to do with your salvation and everything to do with sharing love. Just don't mentally put one before the other. One type work is an attempt at cleansing oneself. The other works are deeds of love, because they are from a loving heart created by Jesus through his words. When one sees his gift of love and perfection from God through Jesus it creates deep love within. The byproduct or fruit of pure love is helping, caring, kindness, giving of self, helping, building up, blessing etc.!

Salvation, perfection and love from God is by faith in the words of Jesus unto a perfect man. Perfection unto God cannot come by works or deeds of any kind! IMO, TK

[terraricca]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 22 2010,03:32)

Pierre: If a person thinks that good works of kindness will cleanse them and save their soul, then they are dead to the truth. The truth of Jesus, by faith, quickens us and makes us alive in Christ. Can you grasp this. Works and good deeds from a pure heart of love is Godly.  Works and good deeds to pacify God or to help in your salvation are dead works. Your works have nothing to do with your salvation and everything to do with sharing love. Just don't mentally put one before the other. One type work is an attempt at cleansing oneself. The other works are deeds of love, because they are from a loving heart created by Jesus through his words. When one sees his gift of love and perfection from God through Jesus it creates deep love within. The byproduct or fruit of pure love is helping, caring, kindness, giving of self, helping, building up, blessing etc.! Salvation, perfection and love from God is by faith in the words of Jesus unto a perfect man. Perfection unto God cannot come by works or deeds of any kind! IMO, TK

TK
you failed to understand the spirit of the words Jesus is telling

they are not just words read them again and think,

he is not talking about works, but what those works imply

and do not forget there still is the resurrection for both

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 20 2010,22:15)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 19 2010,17:22) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,20:48) To all: This is for all who are born again. Those who recognize that they have died (like Paul said) and it is no longer them who liveth but Christ in them….!  We were dead in our sin but Jesus the word of God raised us up from the dead. Rev:20:12…..and I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead (those dead in trespasses and sin)were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. Did you hear the spirit? The dead (not those alive in Christ) were judged by the books according to their dead works(those who remained under the law were still dead in trespasses and sin) V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness. There is one judgment, either for us, now if we accept the judgment of Christ as perfected human beings or we are judged as the dead by the things written in the books according to their works! Do we really want our righteousness unto God to be judged by the works we perform? Thats the old law and it is sin and death. If we don't live by faith in what Jesus said we are doomed to judgment for our works. IMO, TK Tim By what “works” were these dead judged? Why did Paul say this? Eph 2:8   For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:   Eph 2:9   Not of works, lest any man should boast.   Do you even understand what the “White Throne” judgment is? It is the millennium, it is the 1000 year reign of Christ, it is during that time that all the dead in their grave will come forth and be taught; it is then when your works count since it will be no longer by faith; it is then when you can get your name into the book of life, if not, you die again. “””V15…Whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into fire….the fire of the Holy Spirit that will burn away all evil works for righteousness.””” What kind of nonsense is this? where do you read this? Georg George: Bless you;  IMO those dead in trespasses and sin are those who remain in the old law which subsisted of physical works for perfection unto God. The law required works or good deeds or things done to try to appease God in the old testament. These works of the law are sin and death. The new testament consists of faith in the words from God that Jesus gave to whosoever would believe. The perfection we desire is gifted to us by Jesus' words when accepted by faith. Faith in God is life. Paul said, spiritually speaking,…I died, it is no longer me that liveth but Christ(Gods annointing) dwelling in me…! That is the resurrection of Jesus in a man. Its awareness of truth. Jesus said,…I am the ressurection and the life…! Eph 2:9…not of works (physical good or bad deeds which make a man feel like he has done good or not so good) that is where there is boasting. There is no boasting in Faith. Its the same gifts of God through Jesus for whosoever will believe. Those who have not accepted purification unto God by faith in Jesus are dead in their tresspasses and sin. Those who have accepted  their purification unto God through Jesus' words have passed from death to life. They have been raised from the dead. The word of God/Jesus has come forth and cleansed them and raised them from the dead works of the law. No more effort or trying to appease God. It has all been done for those who believe/accept Jesus, The sabbath rest of God. You might want to read these passages again, slowly, so you can see. Read 12 again, …the books were opened and the book of life…and the “dead” were judged by the books(not the book of life) according to their “dead works, deeds, efforts for purification, works by law. There is no judgment for those in Christ or Jesus! Because Jesus the word of God has already judged the believers as perfect unto God. The lake of fire is for unbelievers!! Not believers in Jesus. Maybe try the KJV of the Bible before you call this nonsense! TK

Well, you're right, it is your opinion.

Georg

[terraricca]

Marty

who is the women in Revelation;REV 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars;
REV 12:2 and she was with child; and she * cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.

Pierre

[theodorej]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 19 2009,15:03)

who  is he ?

Greetings Peirre….. In rome we have a man who professes to be infalible in spiritual church matters and considers himself the Vicar(substitute)of Christ….The last time I checked the Risen Christ( Jesus ) overcame death and is very much alive… and will manefest himself at the prescribed time which I have a sense is very near…

[theodorej]

Pierre….. The book of Revelation is replete with symbolism and metaphors….and God only knows how many professing scohlors there are who think they understand it….This is a book that by its very design is purposed to confuse and confound the wise and the learned…The interpretation of Revelation is spread throughout the scriptures,The book of Daniel is a glaring example,Gods order of things with respect to time is replete through scripture (eg. a day is as a year and so on)….The foundational event in time that is evident today is that man has finally reached a point where he can actually destroy the eternals creation and for that reason God will intervene in the affairs of men in a mighty way with much wrath and judgement….All the metphors you read in revelation regarding the poisening of oceans,the devestation of the forests,the enslaving of the faithfull and the darkening of the skys…these are all events that will be perpetrated by man and could lead to the total destruction of earth and God will not let that happen….just as he is not going to let an obscure tribe of brutal cannibals put a date on the destruction of his creation…

[Author]

Posts