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Hi H,
To remind you I said baptism ALONE saves no one just as faith ALONE, repentance ALONE, and Spirit baptism ALONE save no one.We obey ALL the righteous demands of God and He is faithful to fulfill His promises to us.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2006,21:42) Hi ken,
A careful reading of 1 Peter 3 shows that water baptism is an appeal for forgiveness from God by the obedience of a repentant heart.We only enter the kingdom when our sins are forgiven. We only become children of God when we are reborn into Christ and he is reborn into us.
So it is not an additional extra sought by the saved but it too is an integral part of the salvation plan of God.
We also do not presume to think and speak for God and state that God would only think and do as we do. God is greater than us and is not bound by any human moral ideas.
Instead we are obliged to find and obey the righteous demands of God
Hey Nick,Doesn't look like you will answer the question. If you knew your child's heart was right with God but could not get to water would you deny your child salvation?
I stated if you do not answer then you must agree that you would NOT deny your child salvation. Is this Correct. Now if you are going to dance around the question then I assume I am correct. You can't have your cake and eat it also. Make a stand on what you believe.
Hi Kenrch.
Here is your question.“If you knew your child's heart was right with God but could not get to water would you deny your child salvation?”
God knows those who belong to Him.
His obedient Children seek what He has revealed and obey it.
I am not God that I could answer such a question.
That can only be directed to the One who grants salvation to men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2006,22:59) Hi Kenrch.
Here is your question.
“If you knew your child's heart was right with God but could not get to water would you deny your child salvation?”God knows those who belong to Him.
His obedient Children seek what He has revealed and obey it.
I am not God that I could answer such a question.
That can only be directed to the One who grants salvation to men.
IF “YOU” knew “your child's” heart would you deny your child salvation because of water? If you believe what you teach then you would have to say that you WOULD deny your child salvation because according to you he's doomed not being dunked.Can't you give a straight answer. I'll answer it “I WOULD NOT DENY my child salvation because of water.
I am not God that I could answer such a question.
Nick you answer that when you teach that God will not save anyone unless they get dunked in water.
The question is does that rule apply to YOUR child?Hi kenrch,
We cannot take human understandings and apply them to God. We cannot say that I am a nice guy and I would never do such and such. Therefore God as is nice like me and so He would not either. God is not made like men, and certainly not made in our lowly ignorant IMAGE is He?
David falls into this silly argument in the eternal torment thread too.
So hypothetical questions about how I would treat my children do not apply to God and how He decides to treat His creation.
His children begin life as His children only WHEN they obey His demands that they be reborn into Christ.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2006,23:30) Hi kenrch,
We cannot take human understandings and apply them to God. We cannot say that I am a nice guy and I would never do such and such. Therefore God as is nice like me and so He would not either. God is not made like men, and certainly not made in our lowly ignorant IMAGE is He?
David falls into this silly argument in the eternal torment thread too.
So hypothetical questions about how I would treat my children do not apply to God and how He decides to treat His creation.
His children begin life as His children only WHEN they obey His demands that they be reborn into Christ.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge.Rom 10:3 For being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.
I admire your zeal for God's word but you are ignorant of God's righteouness.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 23 2006,23:30) Hi kenrch,
We cannot take human understandings and apply them to God. We cannot say that I am a nice guy and I would never do such and such. Therefore God as is nice like me and so He would not either. God is not made like men, and certainly not made in our lowly ignorant IMAGE is He?
David falls into this silly argument in the eternal torment thread too.
So hypothetical questions about how I would treat my children do not apply to God and how He decides to treat His creation.
His children begin life as His children only WHEN they obey His demands that they be reborn into Christ.
Nick Jesus used hypothetical questions:
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, HOW MUCH MORE shall your Father who is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?If you were to say if my child's heart is right then I would not deny him salvation. Then YOU being evil know how to LOVE your son HOW MUCH MORE will your Father in heaven LOVE your/His son.
Are you saying that your righteousness is above that of God! Are you saying that if it were up to you, you would grant salvation to your son but God would not! Because that is what you teach. I will have to say again Rom. 10:2-3
You are ignorant of the righteousness of God.Just a simple yes I would deny my son salvation and you would show that you stand by your teaching. You say that God would deny your son salvation. Don't you want to be as the god you say you serve. No water. No salvation! Isn't that right?
I'll answer the question again: “I would never deny my child salvation knowing that his heart is right with God”.
I stand on my belief and scripture. How about you? If you believe what you teach then say so! Don't dance around the question trying to evade an answer. Say something besides blabla about David eternal torment and nice guys and bla bla. Just answer the question!
A teacher who won't stand on his teaching but won't say he is wrong either. So how am I to understand this teaching?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2006,01:22) Hi k,
I know I am ignorant. How about you?
I certainly don't know everything but I do know the righteousness of God. I know as scripture says that If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart then you will be saved.Those who don't know that are ignorant of God's righteousness.
Rom 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
Rom 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved”.By recieving water baptism, a man is making a formal statement to the world that he has been changed, born again. He is proclaiming that he died to his old self is now a new creature in Christ. For the world did not see what occured inside the man, and by the man recieving water baptism, he is giving glory to God. Praise God. Thus giving the man a good conscience towards God.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ July 24 2006,17:44) By recieving water baptism, a man is making a formal statement to the world that he has been changed, born again. He is proclaiming that he died to his old self is now a new creature in Christ. For the world did not see what occured inside the man, and by the man recieving water baptism, he is giving glory to God. Praise God. Thus giving the man a good conscience towards God.
Amen, it is symbolic just as the bread and wine are. Unless you are catholic and believe that the priest changes the bread and wine to the body and blood of Christ!So is the water. It's that simple but their are those who want to make the gospel complicated (2Cor. 11:3).
Amen. The same thing happen in the days of the apostles. Men tried to replace the free gift of God, that which was given by grace, into a thing of works. And the apostles quickly settled the dispute telling them it was only by grace only that a man is saved. Yet, sadly today, we have people who still try to do the same thing.
Amen. As I said above. It is telling the world you are a new creature in Christ and it is giving God the all the glory. Praise God.
Water baptism is what you are referring to John. For it is the three baptisms that bare witness of the believer. Blood, water and Spirit.
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