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Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,21:50) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,14:04) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:59) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.
Hi KJ:I believe that you are speaking out of minunderstanding of Christianity.
For all Christians and especially, someone authority the following applies:
Quote Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wrong. I know all about Christianity. It is one way but it is not the only way. If you truly believe that that you need to accept that you have a limiting view of the God of the universe. To say that God only revealed himself through one man in the 1st century CE to a handful of people says you don't think much of that God, IMHO.
Hi Kj:Jesus was sent by God and I believe him when he has said:
Quote John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Sorry, but your opinion does not over-ride something that God has said to me through my Lord,
Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity. He is the propitiation for our sins. Only his blood will wash away our sins. There is not other way.
If that is so, what of the billions of humans who have never heard of Jesus throughout history? Do you really have such a selfish view of God that you'd be willing to condemn these unfortunate people to hell?Hi KJ,
You misunderstand God and His ways.
Men are judged according to their response to His son.
It is God's problem anyway and you can't sanitise scripture to accommodate your sensibilities.Hi KJ,
You say
“If that is so, what of the billions of humans who have never heard of Jesus throughout history? Do you really have such a selfish view of God that you'd be willing to condemn these unfortunate people to hell? “How can drawing from a sacred book teachings from God about salvation cause us to be selfish?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,00:34) Hi KJ,
You misunderstand God and His ways.
Men are judged according to their response to His son.
It is God's problem anyway and you can't sanitise scripture to accommodate your sensibilities.
So says the one who takes scripture and interprets it in his own fashion. Again, you use the same scripture as others on here yet I see you disagreeing with their interpretation more often than agreeing. Are we to assume you have the real answers and the only truth?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,01:04) Hi Kj,
You say
“I know all about Christianity.”
Except what it is all about perhaps?
Oh, I know what its all about. You seem to forget that the word “Christianity” is not found in the bible. Thus men have defined it since the time of Christ. Like Gandhi said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,03:04) Hi KJ,
You say
“If that is so, what of the billions of humans who have never heard of Jesus throughout history? Do you really have such a selfish view of God that you'd be willing to condemn these unfortunate people to hell? “How can drawing from a sacred book teachings from God about salvation cause us to be selfish?
Because you believe that God will cast people into hell for not accepting Jesus. That is such a narrow and selfish view of God IMHO.Hi KJ,
To elaborate.
As you may remember the way of Jesus is not of works but imputed righteousness.
But then we have Mt 5 and Mt 25 speaking of men being saved by works.
We have the poor at the wedding feast, good and bad.Mercy triumphs over judgement.
God is fair and is love.We are urged to ensure we are found in the millenial rest of God.
But many more will be saved outside of the way.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,12:35) But many more will be saved outside of the way.
Then it is not THE way but one of many ways.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,12:35) But many more will be saved outside of the way.
No skimming. You typed this, so why do you now say something different?Hi KJ,
I don't.
You misunderstand.
The way is prescribed and few choose to follow Christ into the seventh day millenial rest.
Many more who are raised in the second resurrection after the millenium, will be saved when they are found to be sheep and not goats, because of how they treated the sons of God. [much to their surprise].
Others too who meet the criteria of the beatitudes Mt 5 will be saved.
Then there are those in the highways and bywaysQuote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,15:32) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,21:50) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,14:04) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 18 2008,20:59) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,13:24) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,20:03) Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 19 2008,12:58) Am I anti-semitic like you? No, can't say I am. That particular idea led to the slaughter of millions of Jews since the 1st century. Jesus died once and millions of Jews died afterwards because of it. Seriously, there were many things inserted into the life of Jesus that were not based on reality. You just accept them because the RCC decided which books went into the bible.
Hi KJ,
So can you sort for us what is true and what is not because a blanket statement like this causes doubt to fall on all his words.
No, I am not here to sort what is true for you but I will share what I find to be true in my own life. I do this because I find that most religions are selfish and try to say that God is for them alone. Christianity is no better I fear. In the bible you get the idea that Christians will be favored and will rule over others. This is a selfish thought and filled with an air of superiority, a very human trait. It is no better than what a radical Muslim might believe.
Hi KJ:I believe that you are speaking out of minunderstanding of Christianity.
For all Christians and especially, someone authority the following applies:
Quote Phil 2:1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies, 2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. 4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion F7 as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Wrong. I know all about Christianity. It is one way but it is not the only way. If you truly believe that that you need to accept that you have a limiting view of the God of the universe. To say that God only revealed himself through one man in the 1st century CE to a handful of people says you don't think much of that God, IMHO.
Hi Kj:Jesus was sent by God and I believe him when he has said:
Quote John 14:4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Sorry, but your opinion does not over-ride something that God has said to me through my Lord,
Jesus is God's gift of love to humanity. He is the propitiation for our sins. Only his blood will wash away our sins. There is not other way.
If that is so, what of the billions of humans who have never heard of Jesus throughout history? Do you really have such a selfish view of God that you'd be willing to condemn these unfortunate people to hell?
Hi Kj:First, how do you know who has heard and who has not. Certainly, there are hindrances to people hearing.
In the ministry of the Apostle Paul, he said:
Quote Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report F39? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,15:58) Hi KJ,
I don't.
You misunderstand.
The way is prescribed and few choose to follow Christ into the seventh day millenial rest.
Many more who are raised in the second resurrection after the millenium, will be saved when they are found to be sheep and not goats, because of how they treated the sons of God. [much to their surprise].
Others too who meet the criteria of the beatitudes Mt 5 will be saved.
Then there are those in the highways and byways
Then you seem to adhere to a type of (albeit incomplete) universalism. I recall that you often debated against such a belief with a user called Chosen One. Have you now come around to a new way or are you just in the habit of opposing people for the sake of opposing?Hi Kj,
I realise it has challenged your traditional view to see God's little exceptions written into salvation in the Word of God but we are told mercy triumphs over judgement and God is ever sovereign.Universalism says all will be saved and that is nonsense.
The goats meet their just end.Rev 21
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.Quote (942767 @ Feb. 19 2008,15:59) Hi Kj: First, how do you know who has heard and who has not. Certainly, there are hindrances to people hearing.
In the ministry of the Apostle Paul, he said:
Quote Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report F39? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. 19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
What's better, to allow people to choose their own path or force their hand? That is, how can a morally upright person benefit from hearing of Jesus if they choose not to believe when they were safe before you told them? The two ideals do not blend.IOW, there are many millions throughout history who have never heard of Jesus. What is their fate? If you say that their works will determine this, how will it benefit them to hear of Jesus and then be damned to not accept him? If you believe in any of this, you are taking the chance of actually condemning people by telling them and forcing them to make a decision when it was not required before.
Do you understand what i am saying and the fallacy of such beliefs?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 19 2008,16:36) Hi Kj,
I realise it has challenged your traditional view to see God's little exceptions written into salvation in the Word of God but we are told mercy triumphs over judgement and God is ever sovereign.Universalism says all will be saved and that is nonsense.
The goats meet their just end.Rev 21
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Next question then: what happens if that morally upright person hears of Jesus and chooses not to accept him?
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