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Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,08:36) Why would Christ need to pray for wisdom if he has existed as long as God?
Hi KJ,
Who said the Son was not begotten of God?[Ps2]
He emptied himself and came as a normal man.
His knowledge of his origins was given later.Scripture does not record the infant Jesus as knowing his origins.
Quote (kejonn @ Feb. 18 2008,08:37) Also, I know of many wise non-Christians. How did they get their wisdom?
Hi KJ,
You should not confuse the wisdom of men with that of God.1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 18 2008,05:41) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 17 2008,18:25) Quote No Mandy they do not make sense to me, I see Jesus in those verses of Scriptures that my Husband and I have given to you.
I understand this response. But I ask you again, when we look at passages like Psalms 69 – are you willing to attribute all of the Psalms to Jesus or just the parts that sound like the Jesus we want to see there?Is Jesus guilty like the Psalm says he is?
No Psalm is from David, He is speaking to God, but we also know that David was a prophet and within His Psalm are scriptures prophesying about Jesus.
Verse 21 is one of those scriptures because when you look at the rest of the chapter that scripture has nothing to do with David.
What do you mean about that Jesus is guilty, guilty of what?Peace and Love Irene
Psalm 69:5Is this verse attributed to Jesus as well?
Hi Irene,
Quote First thank you for the compliment, i needed that.
I've no idea what you are talking about? Other than I imagine I am being punished with a bit of sarcasm for questioning you the way I did? Let me clear the air long enough to say that I mean no disrespect to you or your husband. Quite the contrary, I respect your opinion or I wouldn't bother engaging you.Quote I am still learning, I don't know it all, I never thought that I did. Maybe I come across that way, for that maybe the advice of my Husband might have to do with. Most of the time when I seek His advice, it is mostly His respond that I write down.
May I suggest that you just think for yourself. I trust your opinion. If your husband wants to add his, have him post it himself. I enjoy both of your views.Quote But I am also not a person who would just leave. Believe me I have felt like it a lot this past week.
I think we all go through this. Some of us leave for short periods of time. For instance, I haven't heard from WJ in quite a while. He takes breaks too and then comes back full force. But I would never want you to leave. We may not agree, and I may press you for answers or to explain your views, but I still care for you very much and respect you. Don't forget that, OK?
This forum is not for the faint-of-heart. It can get a bit edgy at times. I think we can all handle it. I know I'm better for it.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2008,08:54) Hi not3,
The references to Jesus in the OT are scattered amongst the whole OT.
How convenient.I believe there are referances to the promised Messiah throughout the OT, but the question is, do these ref's refer to Jesus?
If they do……we have some apparent problems.
Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,08:48) Psalm 69:5 Is this verse attributed to Jesus as well?
What do you think, Nick?Can we cut and paste the Psalm to attribute the parts to Jesus that feel comfortable and then sweep the other verse under the carpet?
Hi not3,
Why have you been given the Spirit if all was obvious without this blessing?Matt 2 quotes about Jesus in Micah
Micah 5
1Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek.2But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
3Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
4And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.
5And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.
6And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders.
7And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men.
8And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.
9Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off.
10And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:
11And I will cut off the cities of thy land, and throw down all thy strong holds:
12And I will cut off witchcrafts out of thine hand; and thou shalt have no more soothsayers:
13Thy graven images also will I cut off, and thy standing images out of the midst of thee; and thou shalt no more worship the work of thine hands.
14And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.
15And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.
Should the whole chapter be made to apply to him?
Or perhaps the whole book?
Discernment is required.Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,09:00) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,08:48) Psalm 69:5 Is this verse attributed to Jesus as well?
What do you think, Nick?Can we cut and paste the Psalm to attribute the parts to Jesus that feel comfortable and then sweep the other verse under the carpet?
No I think that is David saying that about Himself. Ask yourself did Jesus ever committed any Sin? I don't think so.Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 18 2008,09:29) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,09:00) Quote (Not3in1 @ Feb. 18 2008,08:48) Psalm 69:5 Is this verse attributed to Jesus as well?
What do you think, Nick?Can we cut and paste the Psalm to attribute the parts to Jesus that feel comfortable and then sweep the other verse under the carpet?
No I think that is David saying that about Himself. Ask yourself did Jesus ever committed any Sin? I don't think so.
Can you please tell me which parts of the Psalm David is talking about himself and which parts are about Jesus?How do you know? Is there an obvious breaking point or what? I don't see it.
Hi not3,
He did carry the sin of all men to the cross.
2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.Mandy! In verse 21 and 25 which has a star in front of the verse are Jesus talking and were set in. Don't know what all of that means, tho. Why it was set in.
Peace and Love Irene
We need to pray and ask God for understanding. 69:5 has to apply to David since the Lord did not have any sin, but what of the rest of the Psalm with statements which have been attributed to statements made by Jesus. This is a difficult one to understand.
94,
Brother thank you for admitting that it's a bit difficult to understand. As far as I can see, those who want to attribute the majority of the Psalm to Jesus but withold the negative parts do so by discrimination. Everyone discriminates differently. Therefore I do not believe we can attribute this Psalm truthfully to the Lord Jesus, in my opinion.
What is so very interesting to me though, is that even though there appears to be a problem with tying Jesus in to this Psalm….most Christians will based on faith OR the fact that we may never fully understand. This frustrates me. Does this mean that when we come accross difficult passages we should just put our heads in the sand and cry, “Faith! Faith!”?
I prefer your advice, 94. We need to pray and ask God for understanding. Perhaps we are wrong to attribute this to Jesus. Wouldn't that be something to consider?
Quote (seek and you will find @ Feb. 18 2008,11:56) Mandy! In verse 21 and 25 which has a star in front of the verse are Jesus talking and were set in. Don't know what all of that means, tho. Why it was set in. Peace and Love Irene
My bible doesn't include a star or explaination that various versus are Jesus or anyone else talking. I believe we draw our own conclusions depending on what we want to believe, or what is popular to believe, or what we have been taught from the beginning.I do not see Jesus talking anywhere in this Psalm.
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