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Quote (Mary @ April 09 2013,23:20) Colter You cannot simply give gods name an honor away like this, if may suggest these words are to compared to the feeling recorded in the OT, god began this, it is shame that man has caused him to be a terririst, unkind an wipe him out by demoting as if he is nothing since Jesus came, an don't think Jesus would approve of the becoming the Roman Catholics new god
Never judge the past by comparing it to the present, the past will always come up short.The laws of Moses seem absurd now, but at the time they represented a great leap forward compared to human sacrifice and idol worship. Context and perspective are vital to assessing history. Moses wasn't ruling a bunch of girly-boys; he had his work cut out for him. It worked; he got the people to the “predicted land” with a monotheistic concept where the Son would eventually come. That was the whole point.
Colter
Quote (Colter @ April 09 2013,02:36) You would make a great politician with an answer like that. Now, will you answer the question that I asked please, it's about the authors of the Bible, the inerrancy of the historical facts, the racial and political bias inside the Bible books?
Why would the human authors of OT scripture be any more perfect then the administrators of the RCC?
Colter
The answer is simple. If they respect God and love God, then they would preserve the scriptures and copy them faithfully. History proves this is the case. As there are many families of texts that were copied independently of each other, when you line them up, they agree with some minor spelling differences. And some tampering which has occurred is easy to spot.And if people had doubts about that, then the Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed this to be the case.
Now for the Roman Empire and RCC. Because their motive is power, they are not above changing anything that enables that power. History proves this to be the case too. e.g., via Constantine, the holy day of the Sabbath was changed to Sunday to appease the pagans and perhaps his own pagan beliefs. Popes have the supposed authority to utter new truths and their traditions are to be honoured and respected.
Jesus said, “by your traditions you nullify the power of God”.
Any spiritually minded believer can see the difference. A person who has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof, may not see any difference.
Quote (t8 @ April 10 2013,09:08) Quote (Colter @ April 09 2013,02:36) You would make a great politician with an answer like that. Now, will you answer the question that I asked please, it's about the authors of the Bible, the inerrancy of the historical facts, the racial and political bias inside the Bible books?
Why would the human authors of OT scripture be any more perfect then the administrators of the RCC?
Colter
The answer is simple. If they respect God and love God, then they would preserve the scriptures and copy them faithfully. History proves this is the case. As there are many families of texts that were copied independently of each other, when you line them up, they agree with some minor spelling differences. And some tampering which has occurred is easy to spot.And if people had doubts about that, then the Dead Sea Scrolls confirmed this to be the case.
Now for the Roman Empire and RCC. Because their motive is power, they are not above changing anything that enables that power. History proves this to be the case too. e.g., via Constantine, the holy day of the Sabbath was changed to Sunday to appease the pagans and perhaps his own pagan beliefs. Popes have the supposed authority to utter new truths and their traditions are to be honoured and respected.
Jesus said, “by your traditions you nullify the power of God”.
Any spiritually minded believer can see the difference. A person who has a form of godliness but denies the power thereof, may not see any difference.
The Bible that the RCC decided upon is also more or less the same when comparing copies.The OT books were edited and redacted during the captivity. Most scholars agree that the OT books date to about 500-600 BC.
But as I suspected, the Hebrew men were perfect and had no power in mind LOL! They still wait today for an ill-conceived Messiah to politically deliver a “chosen people.”
Colter
John travolta an his family are here on the Gold Coast! What a blast the locals are having when they find them under their hats an behind sunnys just doing the tourist attractions . the Aussies lub them.
might be lucky enough to see them myself!Where did you move this thread to t8?
Faith an doctrine?
I know I commented on it being moved, an you put it back? That was nice!Not having access to the whole forum put us in a position of full access avatars avoiding us unauthorised avatars answering questions.
Maybe there was a better place to have this thread?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2013,08:50) Quote (Stu @ Mar. 26 2013,00:42) So your theology has your god telling the Romans to kill Jesus? Or is this another of those get-out-of-jail-free cards with “Mysterious ways” written on it?
Stuart
My theology is that God knew that the powers of darkness would kill him if they had the chance. God gave them the chance they were looking because they failed to see the wisdom that sin brings death and the repercussions of that. That being the case, the death of the son of God satisfied that law that demanded our death, thus enabling us to escape eternal death.On a smaller scale we often see law enforcement setting out bait to catch a killer. Or catching a drug dealer might require the police to set up a deal so that they fall into the net live on camera.
Hey T8, thanks for all your help getting back on the forum. Greatly appreciate!Oh course a tinge of he may just not……;o)
Question:
How was darkness created? Hows does purity even know the exsistence of darkness. It isn't possible, even from 'your theology' light and darkness cannot mix. With all due respect your theology teaches you start in darkness and have to work you way to the light.The debate of law versus grace can go on and on. One debate that I have seen or heard too many times. One hold their salvation on following the rules others following the blood.
and T8 some law enforcement also just set people up for no reason whatsoever…………you just never know.
Quote (Colter @ April 10 2013,04:10) Quote (Mary @ April 09 2013,23:20) Colter You cannot simply give gods name an honor away like this, if may suggest these words are to compared to the feeling recorded in the OT, god began this, it is shame that man has caused him to be a terririst, unkind an wipe him out by demoting as if he is nothing since Jesus came, an don't think Jesus would approve of the becoming the Roman Catholics new god
Never judge the past by comparing it to the present, the past will always come up short.The laws of Moses seem absurd now, but at the time they represented a great leap forward compared to human sacrifice and idol worship. Context and perspective are vital to assessing history. Moses wasn't ruling a bunch of girly-boys; he had his work cut out for him. It worked; he got the people to the “predicted land” with a monotheistic concept where the Son would eventually come. That was the whole point.
Colter
Hum……..without the past Colter the present would have a hard time of it.
Einstein summed that one up with the definition of insanity.Seriously I haven't studied for a while but I do know the law of Moses as you call it LOL is not as outdated as what you think it is.
The only thing jesus changed was blood sacrifices. Simple, nothing more or nothing less………..blood sacrifices were becoming a bit to say the least 'less fashionable' the adjustments needed to be made.
Progress needs tending too Colter…….all the new testament did was go from the physical to the spiritual.
Now by all means do what you will with your religion, nail the human back on the stake, cross and wait for the blood to spill to drink it and with all good luck get a chunk of skin to eat then have at it……….sounds a bit absurd doesn't it, think moses may find that a bit absurd also………what do you think?
Quote (princess @ May 31 2013,14:51) Hey T8, thanks for all your help getting back on the forum. Greatly appreciate! Oh course a tinge of he may just not……;o)
Question:
How was darkness created? Hows does purity even know the exsistence of darkness. It isn't possible, even from 'your theology' light and darkness cannot mix. With all due respect your theology teaches you start in darkness and have to work you way to the light.The debate of law versus grace can go on and on. One debate that I have seen or heard too many times. One hold their salvation on following the rules others following the blood.
and T8 some law enforcement also just set people up for no reason whatsoever…………you just never know.
When you understand that darkness is the lack of light and not an actual thing, then it makes sense.God is light. But God gave free will. In order for free will to work, there has to be choice. So what is the logical choice against light, the lack of light would be that answer.
When God put 2 trees in the garden, it was about enabling Adam and Eve to use their free will.
God could easily have not given us a choice. But then, how is that love when we say we love him, but have no other option. Love requires free will and because we are in his image, it makes sense that we have free will otherwise we are but mere robots obeying a program with no deviation possible.
The good news is that once we are tested in this life and we have still chosen God, then in the ages to come, we can never sin. Sin will be done away with. We will no longer require that test. We are the elect and so are the angels that stayed with God, the elect angels.
In the ages to come, the elect will rule and reign.
Quote (princess @ May 31 2013,12:22) Quote (Colter @ April 10 2013,04:10) Quote (Mary @ April 09 2013,23:20) Colter You cannot simply give gods name an honor away like this, if may suggest these words are to compared to the feeling recorded in the OT, god began this, it is shame that man has caused him to be a terririst, unkind an wipe him out by demoting as if he is nothing since Jesus came, an don't think Jesus would approve of the becoming the Roman Catholics new god
Never judge the past by comparing it to the present, the past will always come up short.The laws of Moses seem absurd now, but at the time they represented a great leap forward compared to human sacrifice and idol worship. Context and perspective are vital to assessing history. Moses wasn't ruling a bunch of girly-boys; he had his work cut out for him. It worked; he got the people to the “predicted land” with a monotheistic concept where the Son would eventually come. That was the whole point.
Colter
Hum……..without the past Colter the present would have a hard time of it.
Einstein summed that one up with the definition of insanity.Seriously I haven't studied for a while but I do know the law of Moses as you call it LOL is not as outdated as what you think it is.
The only thing jesus changed was blood sacrifices. Simple, nothing more or nothing less………..blood sacrifices were becoming a bit to say the least 'less fashionable' the adjustments needed to be made.
Progress needs tending too Colter…….all the new testament did was go from the physical to the spiritual.
Now by all means do what you will with your religion, nail the human back on the stake, cross and wait for the blood to spill to drink it and with all good luck get a chunk of skin to eat then have at it……….sounds a bit absurd doesn't it, think moses may find that a bit absurd also………what do you think?
What do I think? The revelation of the Father in the life of Jesus demonstrated a God substantially different from the dim view of him in the OT.Flesh eating and blood drinking came from the Pagan influence on evolving Christianity, it was/is foreign to the “good news” of Jesus' gospel Jesus taught that all me are Sons and Daughters of God, that all mankind are one human family.
Christians don't practice the Laws of Leviticus anymore, in fact neither do the Jews. Those man made laws just naturally fell out of favor.
Colter
Avatar charity is six feet under, having the head stone carved up to say..
Charity Spence
“Went to school to eat my lunch”
Quote (t8 @ May 31 2013,13:24) Quote (princess @ May 31 2013,14:51) Hey T8, thanks for all your help getting back on the forum. Greatly appreciate! Oh course a tinge of he may just not……;o)
Question:
How was darkness created? Hows does purity even know the exsistence of darkness. It isn't possible, even from 'your theology' light and darkness cannot mix. With all due respect your theology teaches you start in darkness and have to work you way to the light.The debate of law versus grace can go on and on. One debate that I have seen or heard too many times. One hold their salvation on following the rules others following the blood.
and T8 some law enforcement also just set people up for no reason whatsoever…………you just never know.
When you understand that darkness is the lack of light and not an actual thing, then it makes sense.God is light. But God gave free will. In order for free will to work, there has to be choice. So what is the logical choice against light, the lack of light would be that answer.
When God put 2 trees in the garden, it was about enabling Adam and Eve to use their free will.
God could easily have not given us a choice. But then, how is that love when we say we love him, but have no other option. Love requires free will and because we are in his image, it makes sense that we have free will otherwise we are but mere robots obeying a program with no deviation possible.
The good news is that once we are tested in this life and we have still chosen God, then in the ages to come, we can never sin. Sin will be done away with. We will no longer require that test. We are the elect and so are the angels that stayed with God, the elect angels.
In the ages to come, the elect will rule and reign.
The darkness had to come from somewhere T8, it just didn't appear all of a sudden. The thoughts of such had to originate from somewhere.Using “free will” as a scapegoat is fine but it does not explain the origin of the matter.
How did the darkness (spiritual) even come to be known? Christian theology suggests that humanity is made in the image of god, now is that physically or spiritually or both?
The answer to the question is not as simple as some may tend to think it is.
Being tested……..what is the need of such? One should not live accordingly due to fear of not passing a test, it should come directly from the interior of the individual.
Angels are not only limited to your heaven, some entertain us here and now…………..
The Mind Arena of Choice
Urantia Book 1955NOTE: “Though Adjuster” means Father fragment, the spirit of God within the mind of man.
(1216.2) 111:1.1 Though the work of Adjusters is spiritual in nature, they must, perforce, do all their work upon an intellectual foundation. Mind is the human soil from which the spirit Monitor must evolve the morontia soul with the co-operation of the indwelt personality.
(1216.3) 111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.
(1216.4) 111:1.3 Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.
(1216.5) 111:1.4 Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.
(1216.6) 111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul — the morontia self — will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
(1217.1) 111:1.6 Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
(1217.2) 111:1.7 Evolutionary mind is only fully stable and dependable when manifesting itself upon the two extremes of cosmic intellectuality — the wholly mechanized and the entirely spiritualized. Between the intellectual extremes of pure mechanical control and true spirit nature there intervenes that enormous group of evolving and ascending minds whose stability and tranquillity are dependent upon personality choice and spirit identification.
(1217.3) 111:1.8 But man does not passively, slavishly, surrender his will to the Adjuster. Rather does he actively, positively, and co-operatively choose to follow the Adjuster’s leading when and as such leading consciously differs from the desires and impulses of the natural mortal mind. The Adjusters manipulate but never dominate man’s mind against his will; to the Adjusters the human will is supreme. And they so regard and respect it while they strive to achieve the spiritual goals of thought adjustment and character transformation in the almost limitless arena of the evolving human intellect.
Colter
Quote (princess @ June 01 2013,04:48) The darkness had to come from somewhere T8, it just didn't appear all of a sudden. The thoughts of such had to originate from somewhere.
It doesn't come from anywhere. Darkness is nothing. It is the lack of God. You know you turn lights on all the time. When was the last time you turned on dark in the middle of the day? See it isn't a thing, it is just nothing.God made all his attributes free to choose so that the lack of goodness is evil and the lack of wisdom is foolishness etc.
This allows us to choose God or reject him. This is your life, your choice, your destiny. Only you can choose for your life.
Quote (princess @ June 01 2013,04:48) Using “free will” as a scapegoat is fine but it does not explain the origin of the matter. How did the darkness (spiritual) even come to be known? Christian theology suggests that humanity is made in the image of god, now is that physically or spiritually or both?
The answer to the question is not as simple as some may tend to think it is.
Being tested……..what is the need of such? One should not live accordingly due to fear of not passing a test, it should come directly from the interior of the individual.
Angels are not only limited to your heaven, some entertain us here and now……
Read my post again. I covered most of those points. If you disagree with some points, then explain your reasoning. That way we can have a profitable conversation rather than a session of denial.In fact would you be interested in a debate or an invitation to a Hot Seat discussion that previously consisted of Stu and Charity? I could set up the debate or send an invitation to that Hot Seat discussion.
Quote (Colter @ June 01 2013,05:42) The Mind Arena of Choice
Urantia Book 1955NOTE: “Though Adjuster” means Father fragment, the spirit of God within the mind of man.
(1216.2) 111:1.1 Though the work of Adjusters is spiritual in nature, they must, perforce, do all their work upon an intellectual foundation. Mind is the human soil from which the spirit Monitor must evolve the morontia soul with the co-operation of the indwelt personality.
(1216.3) 111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.
(1216.4) 111:1.3 Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves.
(1216.5) 111:1.4 Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body; the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness.
(1216.6) 111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul — the morontia self — will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
(1217.1) 111:1.6 Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
(1217.2) 111:1.7 Evolutionary mind is only fully stable and dependable when manifesting itself upon the two extremes of cosmic intellectuality — the wholly mechanized and the entirely spiritualized. Between the intellectual extremes of pure mechanical control and true spirit nature there intervenes that enormous group of evolving and ascending minds whose stability and tranquillity are dependent upon personality choice and spirit identification.
(1217.3) 111:1.8 But man does not passively, slavishly, surrender his will to the Adjuster. Rather does he actively, positively, and co-operatively choose to follow the Adjuster’s leading when and as such leading consciously differs from the desires and impulses of the natural mortal mind. The Adjusters manipulate but never dominate man’s mind against his will; to the Adjusters the human will is supreme. And they so regard and respect it while they strive to achieve the spiritual goals of thought adjustment and character transformation in the almost limitless arena of the evolving human intellect.
Colter
Colter. Are you able to engage in a discussion on your own or are you just a parrot?A disciple should be able to put truth into their own words and experience, rather than just parrot stuff off. Parroting is a sign that the person is not able to understand.
Yes, I can and do engage in discussions. I post things that I feel some of the more mature readers may appreciate. Your insults are just an indication of imiturity, you would do better to consider your true motives.
Colter
Quote (t8 @ June 01 2013,09:11) Quote (princess @ June 01 2013,04:48) The darkness had to come from somewhere T8, it just didn't appear all of a sudden. The thoughts of such had to originate from somewhere.
It doesn't come from anywhere. Darkness is nothing. It is the lack of God. You know you turn lights on all the time. When was the last time you turned on dark in the middle of the day? See it isn't a thing, it is just nothing.God made all his attributes free to choose so that the lack of goodness is evil and the lack of wisdom is foolishness etc.
This allows us to choose God or reject him. This is your life, your choice, your destiny. Only you can choose for your life.
T8, from my stand point you are hiding behind your god's skirt for an answer that cannot be provided by you.I understand your though process of light and dark when you reference god to each. Remember T8 I wasn't a go to sunday service and bible study night kinda christian. I studied and believe for quite some time.
It seems however I can understand what you are saying you on the other hand are having a time of it understanding my question.
There are some that are afraid of the dark, they tend to think things are there that are not found in the light. But really is there? Just a change in scenery.
Somewhere along the line thoughts of evil came about, now the only evil that is portrayed in your bible is the devil, even so that would mean that even in heaven there are thoughts of darkness. How could that be?
Are you understanding a bit more now. There are choices other then accepting or rejecting, there is the choice of also just knowing. From my point of view knowing is much more powerful then being given a choice and living in darkness searching to find the light, when one should have already realized it was part of them from the beginning.
and T8 I have no idea what you are rambling on about a 'hot seat' but if for some reason you feel the need to move discussion to this area you are more then welcome to. Will there be tea? Let me know.
Quote (princess @ June 01 2013,15:14) Somewhere along the line thoughts of evil came about, now the only evil that is portrayed in your bible is the devil, even so that would mean that even in heaven there are thoughts of darkness. How could that be?
Angels had the power to choose too.And Satan sinned in Heaven resulting in being cast down.
How can that be? Again, God made the lack of himself available for them. What mechanism he chose I do not know. Perhaps it was that they could do this in their imagination first and then follow that.
With Adam and Eve, God put two trees in the garden. Perhaps Angels had an equivalent choice. Something they were told not to do and if they did it they would die/be cut off from God.
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