- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 24 2007,00:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,10:38) I never mentioned the word ashamed!
To WorshippingJesus.True.
But if you say that I am shedding bad light on this BB, then I use such a word in context to say that I believe that I am not and hence why I am not ashamed of my stance and post to you.
You then say that I do not answer your questions. But the fact is I know it is pointless.
If a man cannot give you an answer and then throws other questions at you, it is simply a diversionary tactic and I don't have time to play along right now.
Tell you what. If you tell me why you do not call the Trinity “them” when you pray, even though that would be the correct language structure to use, (if you believed that God was made up of 3 persons), then I will give you an answer to the questions you gave me.
How does that sound?
t8This was the questions..
have a couple of questions for you.
1. Are you saying that you have no fellowship with the Son?
And if you do, how do you fellowship with him without “prayer” to him?
2. Do you believe that when someone “calls on the name of the Lord”, “Jesus”, and they repent and he comes into their heart, that at that point they should never pray to Jesus again?
3. Also since Jesus is no longer “physically here”, are men suppose to cease from coming to him, and if not how do they come to him without prayer?
4. Do you have any writings on the Holy Spirit here on this forum, and if not, why?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 24 2007,01:01) Who did Paul pray to in 2 Corinthians 12:8?
Is 1:18Of course you and I know that to pray to any person other than God is Idolatry.
Go tell it to Paul! He knew who his Lord and God was, he and Thomas must have had a talk.
Hi W,
Jesus is the Gate.
If you stand in the gateway you do not allow access to the other sheep going in and out and finding pasture.What are you talking about, Nick?
I think they raise a good point that should at least be delt with fairly. Jesus seems to be prayed to in 2nd Corinthians. What exactly are the implications of this?
In the 2 Cor. passage it says that Paul “pleaded” with the Lord. Not “prayed” to the Lord. But at any rate, the Lord answers him!
Jesus told us to pray to the Father. That is what I do. However, I also pray to Jesus sometimes, too. I don't see any scripture that prohibts this? Is there?
Hi kyle,
It is essential that the toe is in direct communication with the head and if you are led by the Spirit it will happen anyway. We fellowship with the Father and the Son.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,20:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 24 2007,00:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,10:38) I never mentioned the word ashamed!
To WorshippingJesus.True.
But if you say that I am shedding bad light on this BB, then I use such a word in context to say that I believe that I am not and hence why I am not ashamed of my stance and post to you.
You then say that I do not answer your questions. But the fact is I know it is pointless.
If a man cannot give you an answer and then throws other questions at you, it is simply a diversionary tactic and I don't have time to play along right now.
Tell you what. If you tell me why you do not call the Trinity “them” when you pray, even though that would be the correct language structure to use, (if you believed that God was made up of 3 persons), then I will give you an answer to the questions you gave me.
How does that sound?
t8This was the questions..
have a couple of questions for you.
1. Are you saying that you have no fellowship with the Son?
And if you do, how do you fellowship with him without “prayer” to him?
2. Do you believe that when someone “calls on the name of the Lord”, “Jesus”, and they repent and he comes into their heart, that at that point they should never pray to Jesus again?
3. Also since Jesus is no longer “physically here”, are men suppose to cease from coming to him, and if not how do they come to him without prayer?
4. Do you have any writings on the Holy Spirit here on this forum, and if not, why?
Like I said WorhippingJesus, if you give me an answer then I will answer you. I think that is fair enough. Otherwise I just don't see the benefit to diversionary tactics.I look forward to your answer and will be happy to give you one.
My questions are:
- Why don't you pray to them (Father, Son, Spirit) by using the correct plural language?
- If you pray to God with singular grammar, then you must pray to the Trinity substance which is the part of God that is one according to most Trinity doctrines. So why pray to the substance instead of the persons? Seems strange to me.
Nick
Quote Hi kyle,
It is essential that the toe is in direct communication with the head and if you are led by the Spirit it will happen anyway. We fellowship with the Father and the Son.Nick. Don't you fellowship with the Holy Ghost? Is your toe and head in direct communication?
2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2007,02:43) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,20:39) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 24 2007,00:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 24 2007,10:38) I never mentioned the word ashamed!
To WorshippingJesus.True.
But if you say that I am shedding bad light on this BB, then I use such a word in context to say that I believe that I am not and hence why I am not ashamed of my stance and post to you.
You then say that I do not answer your questions. But the fact is I know it is pointless.
If a man cannot give you an answer and then throws other questions at you, it is simply a diversionary tactic and I don't have time to play along right now.
Tell you what. If you tell me why you do not call the Trinity “them” when you pray, even though that would be the correct language structure to use, (if you believed that God was made up of 3 persons), then I will give you an answer to the questions you gave me.
How does that sound?
t8This was the questions..
have a couple of questions for you.
1. Are you saying that you have no fellowship with the Son?
And if you do, how do you fellowship with him without “prayer” to him?
2. Do you believe that when someone “calls on the name of the Lord”, “Jesus”, and they repent and he comes into their heart, that at that point they should never pray to Jesus again?
3. Also since Jesus is no longer “physically here”, are men suppose to cease from coming to him, and if not how do they come to him without prayer?
4. Do you have any writings on the Holy Spirit here on this forum, and if not, why?
Like I said WorhippingJesus, if you give me an answer then I will answer you. I think that is fair enough. Otherwise I just don't see the benefit to diversionary tactics.I look forward to your answer and will be happy to give you one.
My questions are:
- Why don't you pray to them (Father, Son, Spirit) by using the correct plural language?
- If you pray to God with singular grammar, then you must pray to the Trinity substance which is the part of God that is one according to most Trinity doctrines. So why pray to the substance instead of the persons? Seems strange to me.
t8The questions was put to you first my friend.
But thats fine you play your little game.
I have answered your questions if you read my post.
Yes I do have fellowship with the Father and the Son and the Spirit.
You try and create a diversion by the foolish statement of praying to Gods substance.
A Smoke screen to avoid answering the questions I have put to you first.
In fact I have put the question to you about the writings of yours on the Holy Spirit on this forum many times.
Where are they? You have never answered that question.
You are not being true here t8 you post two attachments leaving the one out that shows you did not have a question when you started this, and then when I posed questions to you wouldnt answer but accused me of not answering you and thats why you wont answer me.
Here it is again, Thiis is your quote that you started this whole thing, look there is no question.
You said…
Quote
To WorshippingJesus.When you pray to God (the Trinity version) pray like this:
“My God in Heaven.
How are you all.
I pray that you will ALL bless me, forgive me, and look after me.”You see WorhippingJesus, we should be praying to God, not his substance.
However when I pray to God, I am praying to one God. Substance has nothing to do with it because I pray to the Father.
I can only conclude that you pray to the substance if you talk to him as one and refer to him as HIM, HIS, etc.
But if you pray to the Father in Yeshua's name, then you are praying to God through his son. This is what scipture teaches.
Do you see a question in your words t8? No just sarcasm.Then you create a smoke screen after I give you questions because you didnt want to or couldnt answer and even accuse me of not answering your questions and make this the reason why you didnt answer mine.
After I had already posted questions you said…
Quote You then say that I do not answer your questions. But the fact is I know it is pointless.
If a man cannot give you an answer and then throws other questions at you, it is simply a diversionary tactic and I don't have time to play along right now.
Tell you what. If you tell me why you do not call the Trinity “them” when you pray, even though that would be the correct language structure to use, (if you believed that God was made up of 3 persons), then I will give you an answer to the questions you gave me.
How does that sound?
Whatever t8.
To WorshippingJesus.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:43) t8 The questions was put to you first my friend.
Your questions were a response to something I wrote. The thing was you never replied to what I wrote. You just asked questions that took the focus away from my challenge.I usually view this as diversionary and I have seen too much of this kind of thing. It is quite a convenient way to avoid answering something challenging and it is the main weapon that Trinitarians have used against scriptures that are contradictory to the Trinity.
However in saying that I will admit that lately there has been a bit more facing up to such scriptures, although the reasoning usually fails, at least some are looking more closely at some of the hundreds of scriptures that contradict the Trinity doctrine.
The usual line of defense I have witnessed over the years from posting here was to ignore those hundred or so scriptures and concentrate on 10 or so that could be swayed their way due to the multiple ways in which they could be interpreted.
It is amazing when a new Trinity guy comes here with the same 10 scriptures and they think that this blows away the hundreds of scriptures that cannot be reconciled with the Trinity doctrine.
I have always said that a true doctrine doesn't contradict any scripture.
Anyway let's see if you answered my post (my little game as you call it).
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:43) You said…
QuoteTo WorshippingJesus.
When you pray to God (the Trinity version) pray like this:
“My God in Heaven.
How are you all.
I pray that you will ALL bless me, forgive me, and look after me.”You see WorhippingJesus, we should be praying to God, not his substance.
However when I pray to God, I am praying to one God. Substance has nothing to do with it because I pray to the Father.
I can only conclude that you pray to the substance if you talk to him as one and refer to him as HIM, HIS, etc.
But if you pray to the Father in Yeshua's name, then you are praying to God through his son. This is what scipture teaches.
Do you see a question in your words t8? No just sarcasm.
To WorshippingJesus.I see a challenge and I also see that you ran away from it by posting questions that gave no answer to what I wrote.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:43) Yes I do have fellowship with the Father and the Son and the Spirit. You try and create a diversion by the foolish statement of praying to Gods substance.
OK as I thought.You haven't given an answer to the challenge in how does a Trinitarian use singular language when praying to a triune god.
So I will ask the question again which I have asked before and implied in the original post that unfortunately offended you because you thought I was making a mockery of your prayer life.
If you fellowship with 3 members of the Trinity, why is it that you do not use plural language when praying to THEM.
If you would answer that question it would be a great start.
The substance thing I wrote about was pure speculation due to trying to figure out how a Trinitarian can pray to HIM, yet knowingly praying to a Triune God made of of 3 persons. This is a logical conclusion and not a smoke screen because the one part of the Trinity god is the substance.
My challenge remains but if prefer to run away or try to divert the challenge and questions, then I will assume that you put your head in the sand.
Are you willing to pop your head above the sand and give me an answer? In other words, do you have an answer as to what you believe. Because if you do not, then why should anyone listen to you?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2007,10:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 27 2007,02:43) Yes I do have fellowship with the Father and the Son and the Spirit. You try and create a diversion by the foolish statement of praying to Gods substance.
OK as I thought.You haven't given an answer to the challenge in how does a Trinitarian use singular language when praying to a triune god.
So I will ask the question again which I have asked before and implied in the original post that unfortunately offended you because you thought I was making a mockery of your prayer life.
If you fellowship with 3 members of the Trinity, why is it that you do not use plural language when praying to THEM.
If you would answer that question it would be a great start.
The substance thing I write is pure speculation when trying to understand how a Trinitarian can pray to HIM, yet knowingly praying to a Triune God made of of 3 persons. This is a logical conclusion and not a smoke screen because the one part of the Trinity god is the substance.
My challenge remains but if prefer to run away or try to divert the challenge and questions, then I will assume that you put your head in the sand.
Are you willing to pop your head above the sand and give me an answer? In other words, do you have an answer as to what you believe. Because if you do not, then why should anyone listen to you?
t8There was no challenge. All it was is sarcasm and inflamatory language about my prayer life.
Here it is again…
Quote To WorshippingJesus. When you pray to God (the Trinity version) pray like this:
“My God in Heaven.
How are you all.
I pray that you will ALL bless me, forgive me, and look after me.”You see WorhippingJesus, we should be praying to God, not his substance.
However when I pray to God, I am praying to one God. Substance has nothing to do with it because I pray to the Father.
I can only conclude that you pray to the substance if you talk to him as one and refer to him as HIM, HIS, etc.
But if you pray to the Father in Yeshua's name, then you are praying to God through his son. This is what scipture teaches.
I have answered your questions go back over the post and see.You dont like my answer fine, but dont cast the shadow on me when you are the one that hasnt even attempted to answer my questions which I posed to you first.
Especially the question about Holy Spirit writtings on this BB or forum.
Where is the Holy Spirit writings t8? Everbody is listening.
Isnt the work of the Holy Spirit a huge part of our Christion faith?
Hi WorhippingJesus.
Here is the question that came from my post.
I repeat that I am not ridiculing your prayer life, but I admit to ridiculing the Trinity doctrine.Q: If you fellowship with 3 members of the Trinity, why is it that you do not use plural language when praying to THEM.
I couldn't find the answer to that question, but you say you have posted the answer. Could I ask you to repost just the answer to that question in a following post. That way I (and others) won't have to wade through mountains of text to find it.
Thanks.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 26 2007,22:18) Hi WorhippingJesus. Here is the question that came from my post.
I repeat that I am not ridiculing your prayer life, but I admit to ridiculing the Trinity doctrine.Q: If you fellowship with 3 members of the Trinity, why is it that you do not use plural language when praying to THEM.
I couldn't find the answer to that question, but you say you have posted the answer. Could I ask you to repost just the answer to that question in a following post. That way I (and others) won't have to wade through mountains of text to find it.
Thanks.
t8You didnt look very hard.
But just to show that I have nothing to hide and that you are being illusive.
I will clarify what I have already said though to me it is clear.
Of course I fully expect you to answer my questions afterward.
I said in the previous post…
“Couple of scriptures”…
Mk 10:14
But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.Would you forbid little children to come to Christ “through prayer” ?
Jn 6:65
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.Jn 7:37
In the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.Acts 9:14
And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.Do the above scriptures still apply for all men today?
1 Jn 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship (koinonia) with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.Fellowship koinonia; which means:
1) fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse
a) the share which one has in anything, participation
b) intercourse, fellowship, intimacyAs far as the Spirit…
Phil 2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship (koinonia) of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,The selfsame Spirit, the Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Comforter (parakletos), the ontologically “ONE” Spirit that dwells in us also helps us with our infirmitys, for we don’t know how to pray as we ought.
Rom 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.Jn 16:15
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he (Comforter} shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (Fellowship}.t8.
If you think that just praying a prayer to the Father and just tacking the name of Jesus on it is enough. Its not. You see its important to know what it means to pray “IN” the name of Jesus.
It might have something to do with “substance”!”
End of Post.
Now your question is…
Quote
If you fellowship with 3 members of the Trinity, why is it that you do not use plural language when praying to THEM.In answer to your question I will clarify the scriptures above as follows…
If I use the word “God” in my prayer, I am refering to One God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Supporting Scriptures:
Rom 10:1
Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.Heb 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.I may pray…
Father thank you for sending Jesus, and Father I ask that you bring my friend to a saving knowledge of who Jesus is, in the name of Jesus , Amen.I may pray…
Jesus thank you for giving your body as a living sacrifice for our sins, and showing us who the Father is.Supporting Sciptures:
Acts 7:59
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.2 Cor 12:8
For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.Matt 6:6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.1 Jn 1:3
That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship (koinonia) with us: and truly our fellowship is *with the Father*, and with *his Son Jesus Christ*.Or I may pray…
Holy Spirit, Strengthen me, and fill me, you are my teacher and guide, lead me in the way I should go.But mostly it is the Spirit praying through me. For the Spirit is the teacher and the Parakletos.
So the Holy Spirit may do the praying through me by speaking in tongues according to…
Sopporting scriptures:
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,And…
Rom 8:26
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.And…
1 Cor 14:2
For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.Phil 2:1
If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship (koinonia; see aboive) of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,Summary:
2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the “Lord Jesus Christ”, and the “love of God”, and the “communion ( koinonia), of the Holy Ghost”, be with you all. Amen.Three persons, ONE Spirit, ONE GOD!
So t8.
Do you have fellowship with the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.
Is there One “Spirit”?
And where can we find your writtings on the Holy Spirit?
Hi W,
You quote,
2 Cor 13:14
The grace of the “Lord Jesus Christ”, and the “love of God”, and the “communion ( koinonia), of the Holy Ghost”, be with you all. Amen.God in heaven showers his love and His Spirit
on His children on earth
in Christ.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
