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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,08:15) Quote (t8 @ July 06 2007,16:37) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 03 2007,03:46) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 22 2007,08:48) Hi W,
You say
“One Spirit, Three persons, One God!”
Is this written
or did you deduce it.Have you gone back to three deities after only espousing two?
NHThere is only “One God”. Since we know that God is Spirit and there is only “One Spirit” and the Spirit is God and Jesus is that Spirit, and that “God alone” created all things, and that By Jesus “All' things were created and without him was not anything created that was created then we know that Jesus is God!
In other words here is your Creed:====
There is 1 God.
There is 1 SpiritThe Father is Spirit
The Son is Spirit
The Holy Spirit is SpiritNot 3 Spirits but One Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is 100% Spirit, same with the Father and the son.
And God is not 300% Spirit but 100%.
Cursed is the man who thinks God is 300% anything.
Cursed is the man who thinks any member of the God substance is 33.33333%
====OK, WJ. I give you this creed for nothing. You can have it. I think it best describes what you said, teach, and believe.
It's all yours.
t8And here is your creed!
There is 1 God!
There is a smaller god!
There is a Spirit! (which is what God is)The Father is a Spirit
The Son is a Spirit
The Holy Spirit is what God is!Not 1 Spirit, but 2 Spirits and a “what God is”!
The Spirit is 100% “what God is”.
And the lessor god, Jesus who is the other Spirit, came to dwell in us!
Through the lessor god, the Bigger God made all things.
Cursed is the man who thinks there is another god beside God!
Cursed is the man that thinks there is another god like him!
Cursed is the man who says that God made all things through a lessor god than himself!God is sextillion percent God! 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 %
I noticed that you didn't defend what I thought your creed was, so I take it that you believe it. Like I said you can have it. I claim no copyright. You don't even have to cite me as the author because I think it is rubbish anyway. But I would like to make some changes to the one you think I believe.
There is 1 God! – Correct (not a triune one)
There is a smaller god! – Should say there is the only begotten son
There is a Spirit! (which is what God is) Correct, God is Spirit and the Father is the Father of all spirits.The Father is a Spirit – Yes
The Son is a Spirit, – Should read “has a spirit”
The Holy Spirit is what God is! – Correct, God is Spirit and God is Holy. He is the Holy Spirit.Not 1 Spirit, but 2 Spirits and a “what God is”! – Should read: God is the Father of all spirits.
The Spirit is 100% “what God is”. Yes God is Spirit, it is written.
And the lessor god, Jesus who is the other Spirit, came to dwell in us! – Should say that all are less than God. Jesus is the son of God and we can be one with God, his son, and each other in spirit. So all our spirits can be one in unity. See it isn't that hard to understand is it?
Through the lessor god, the Bigger God made all things. – Correction, God made all things through Jesus his son who shares his nature. After all God is his Father.
Cursed is the man who thinks there is another god beside God! – Should say that there is one original Most High God who has sons. Some scripture refers to sons as 'theos'. Not my fault, that is scripture.
Cursed is the man that thinks there is another god like him! – Correct, however according to scripture the image of God is most like God.
Cursed is the man who says that God made all things through a lessor god than himself! – God made all things through his son. He is the son of God and that truth is crucial for true faith. Moslems and even Trinitarians trample on this with their doctrines.God is sextillion percent God! 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 % – Correction, God is one. This was your biggest misconception. 1 not sextillion.
Hope this helps.
oneladyband
Quote And, I agree that Jesus was NOT the “GOD” he was WITH in Jn 1:1. So, I ask you trinitarians, since it doesnt say he was Almighty God, then WHICH “God” WAS he?
Jesus The King of Kings and Lord of Lords is the Almighty God
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;The Word of God described in verse 13 is Jesus because
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,Jesus is described here as KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS,The Word of God, Almighty God, and the great God
The following verse confirms that Jesus (the Lamb of God) is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb , and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Let us now look more closely at Rev 19:15.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who is this Almighty God who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron?
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron
It’s JESUS!……the Almighty God!
All these verses are obviously speaking of the same Person our Lord and God Jesus Christ.
Look at all of His titles.the Lamb, the Word, The Word of God, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS, Lord of lords, and King of kings, Almighty God, and the great God,
Jesus Christ is our Almighty Jehovah God.
Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
Hi Nick.
We both know that the foundational truth that God wants us to come to, is the revelation that Jesus is the son of God and the messiah.
As you are aware, many philosophies and religions deny this truth and the Trinity doctrine seems to be the most deceptive of all because they say that Jesus is the son of God, and then turns around and say that he is the God that he is the son of.
In other words their second statement nullifies the first. This is the deception.
We would do well to not follow this doctrine, nor the people who teach it.
Blessings Nick. Keep up the faith.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 09 2007,00:44) Jesus The King of Kings and Lord of Lords is the Almighty God
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Freeze! “And he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” Hmmm, you took that to mean that Yeshua was being called “Almighty God”? Does that verse REALLY say that? I think not. It is saying that those who will be judged will be dropped into the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God, and that Yeshua will be the one trampling them in that winepress. The winepress is God's, the one smashing the bad grapes will be Yeshua.Quote Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
You forgot “God of gods” (Dt. 10:17). Oh right, that was one name Yeshua did not inherit. Wonder why…Quote Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Um, did you happen to notice the first part of 19:17? A different angel is speaking. This angel is not speaking of Yeshua.Quote Jesus is described here as KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS,The Word of God, Almighty God, and the great God
Yes, yes, yes, no, no. Its all about context, not filters.Quote The following verse confirms that Jesus (the Lamb of God) is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb , and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Let us now look more closely at Rev 19:15.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Who is this Almighty God who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron?
Already showed your fallacy in interpreting 19:15.Quote Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron It’s JESUS!……the Almighty God!
Yes!…..No!Quote All these verses are obviously speaking of the same Person our Lord and God Jesus Christ.
Look at all of His titles.the Lamb, the Word, The Word of God, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS, Lord of lords, and King of kings, Almighty God, and the great God,
What's with all the vain repetition?Quote Jesus Christ is our Almighty Jehovah God.
no….Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
Rom 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
[/quote]
Yet another who can't seem to see verses unless they pass through the Trinity filter.(OneLadyBand)
I read where someone mentioned how the universe was created, citing the scripture that said YHWH did it “alone.”
In my endeavor to understand the context of the Bible as a whole, having once been a trinity-believer and since then studied many translations and come to the conclusion against the doctrine, I consider how Almighty God could have created it all “alone,” and yet created it “through” his Son, as other scriptures say.As many words express various meanins considering how they are applied, the word “through” applies to both the Father and the Son in different ways:
It applies to the Father, as creation took place through him as him being the source of it, the one who purposed it, then worked to bring it to fruition.
The word “through” applies to the Son in that creation took place through him as him being the instrument used by the source.
The same word can be used, however, the meaning, the position of those two involved, is not the same. If one questions that fact, 1 Corinthians 8:6 really takes away any confusion, showing that the “one God” (Jn 17:3) “the Father,” obviously be a wholly separate and distinct being from the “one Lord, Jesus Christ”.
” ….. yet for us there is ONE GOD, THE FATHER, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, AND ONE Lord, Jesus Christ, THROUGH WHOM are all things and through whom we exist.”
–Luke 1:31,32, John 20:17Mary : )
OLB
You say…Quote
The word “through” applies to the Son in that creation took place through him as him being the instrument used by the source.
So “Alone” and “By myself” dosnt mean “Alone” and “By myself”?Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; *that stretcheth forth the heavens alone*; that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*;Isa 45:18
For thus saith the *LORD that created the heavens; *God himself* that formed the earth and made it*; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and *there is none else*.Mary>>>Allow me to direct a few questions back at you in answer to what you just said: “Alone and by myself doesn't mean alone and by myself”?
You do accept that “the Word was WITH God,” do you not? (Jn 1:1; John 17:5)
If you do, then no, “alone” and “by myself” do not mean “alone” and “by myelf,” in every strict sense of the word.You do accept that there are three PERSONS included in the Godhead, do you not (if not, please disregard this part)?
If you do, then no, “alone” and “by myself” do not mean “alone” and “by myself” in every strict sense of the word.You do accept that Jesus was existing eternally as being a part of the Godhead as long as the Father has existed, do you not? (Most trinitarians do not believe that Jesus IS the Father, so this quetion would be applicable)
If you do, then, no, “alone and by myself” do not mean “alone and by myself” in the strictest sense of the word.
Do you see my point?: )
Please let me clarify one thing further on the “alone” and “by myself” question:
YHWH did create the universe “alone” and “by himself” in that it was HIS POWER ALONE, and HIS AUTHORITY ALONE which accomplished the task.
However, other scriptures do say that the world was made “through” Jesus Christ.
In the doing, Jesus was the instrument HIS GOD/Father used to do the creating.: ):blues:
Quote (OneLadyBand @ July 10 2007,11:13) Please let me clarify one thing further on the “alone” and “by myself” question: YHWH did create the universe “alone” and “by himself” in that it was HIS POWER ALONE, and HIS AUTHORITY ALONE which accomplished the task.
However, other scriptures do say that the world was made “through” Jesus Christ.
In the doing, Jesus was the instrument HIS GOD/Father used to do the creating.: ):blues:
So the scriptures say he created all things “alone” “By himself”, but then the NT Apostles contradicts them by saying through a lessor being than himself he created all things?
Dont think so!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2007,11:17) Hi OLB,
Yes unless “I alone” means “we together” the trinitarians are no further ahead.
NHIf Jesus is God we are!
So live with the contradiction!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2007,11:41) Hi W,
So you think the verse in Isaiah includes us?
NHNo I think if Jesus is God we are ahead in our theology since you have a contradiction if you dont believe Jesus is God!
Hi W,
If you find an apparent contradiction is scripture
Is it allowable
or wise
to add an extrabiblical teaching to try to resolve it?Is theology a progressive science?
If so I would rather avoid it and become more simple in my approach to scripture.
Children have a head start over theologians.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2007,11:45) Hi W,
If you find an apparent contradiction is scripture
Is it allowable
or wise
to add an extrabiblical teaching to try to resolve it?Is theology a progressive science?
If so I would rather avoid it and become more simple in my approach to scripture.
Children have a head start over theologians.
NHIf you find a contradiction in scripture, should you not be concerned that maybe your theology or doctrine is not sound?
Especially one as big as the creation of the Universe!
Hi W,
Trinity theory cannot be added into the pure words of scripture without perverting them.
You have resolved nothing.The Trinity, Evolution, it's all the same. They are lies.
Man thinks he knows more than the truth.The pride of man is silly. His wisdom is far below God's foolishness.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the first and the last?
“I am the first and the last, and besides me there is no God.” (Isaiah 44:6)
Turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the first and the last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.”
Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He lived, died, and is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last. Rev 1:8 also describes Him as the Almighty.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations:and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron
Comparing Rev 19:15 and Rev 12:5, we see Jesus described as Almighty God.
Isa 9:6 also describes Jesus as The mighty God
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor,The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Zec 7:11 But they refused to hearken, and pulled away the shoulder, and stopped their ears, that they should not hear.
Jesus is Jehovah: The Alpha and Omega: The First and the Last.
(From the cult's own bible, the NWT)In Revelation 1:8. I am quoting from the Jehovah's Witness’s own Bible, and it reads, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says Jehovah God. ”
Ask the Witness, “What does Alpha and Omega mean?” They'll reply, “The beginning and the end.” Then ask them, “How many Alphas and Omegas can you have?” They'll answer, “Only one.” They will agree that there is only one Alpha and Omega.
Then turn to Revelation 22:12-13 which says, “Look I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me….I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses, “Who do you say the Alpha and Omega is?” They will say, “Jehovah.”
Now take a careful look. The Alpha and Omega in verse twelve is coming quickly. Let's see who is speaking in verse twelve.
Look at verse sixteen, “I Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you people of these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright morning star.”
It is Jesus speaking in verse twelve. If there is any doubt go to verse 20 which says, “He that bears witness of these things says, 'Yes; I am coming quickly' Amen come Lord Jesus.” So it is clear that the Alpha and the Omega in verse twelve is Jesus.
Here is a strong proof text that Jesus is God because both Jehovah and Jesus are called the Alpha and the Omega.
Another pair of verses that are effective when used together are Isaiah 44:6 and Revelation 1:17-18. Again from the Jehovah’s Witnesses own Bible.
Isaiah 44:6 says, “This is what Jehovah has said, 'The king of Israel and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, I am the first and I am the last.'”
Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses how many firsts and lasts can you have? It's obvious to anyone you can only have one first and one last. Ask them, “Who is the first and the last?” They will say, “Jehovah.”
Now turn to Revelation 1:17-18 which says, “Do not be fearful; I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead but look! I am living forever.”
Who is speaking here? Obviously, it is Jesus for He died but is now alive, and guess what? He is called the First and the Last.
Here again we see overwhelming evidence that Jesus is Jehovah God.
Isa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
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