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What translation is that kejonn?
This is much clearer and does not support your erroneous view, neither does your own translation.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (kjv)
Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
(mkjv)Which ever way you want to look at it, the Holy Spirit is speaking and He is identified as Jehovah.
Try again:Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = JehovahIsa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 22 2007,21:23) What translation is that kejonn? This is much clearer and does not support your erroneous view, neither does your own translation.
Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. (kjv)
Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
(mkjv)Which ever way you want to look at it, the Holy Spirit is speaking and He is identified as Jehovah.
Try again:Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = JehovahIsa 42:20 Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.
Uh, the KJV says the very same thing the quote I used (NASB) said. That the Holy Spirit only speaks what it hears. If you read something else from John 16:13, you are so spiritually blind there may be little hope for you.NASB: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
GWT: When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into the full truth. He won't speak on his own. He will speak what he hears and will tell you about things to come.
KJV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
ASV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
BBE: However, when he, the Spirit of true knowledge, has come, he will be your guide into all true knowledge: for his words will not come from himself, but whatever has come to his hearing, that he will say: and he will make clear to you the things to come.
DBY: But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming.
ERV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
WEY: But when He has come–the Spirit of Truth–He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak as Himself originating what He says, but all that He hears He will speak, and He will make known the future to you.
WBS: But, when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he shall hear, that will he speak: and he will show you things to come.Kejonn. You still have a problem.
The scripture clearly states that Jehovah the Holy Spirit is speaking. Your efforts to make scripture contradict itself is a Jehovah's Witness trick.
Back to the drawing board for you.
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = Jehovah2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Hi CB,
God is in heaven and has a Spirit.
Did you not know that the Spirit of God is of God?
Surely you know God manifests as His Spirit in Christ and among men?
God has a Son.Quote (Cult Buster @ July 24 2007,16:44) Kejonn. You still have a problem. The scripture clearly states that Jehovah the Holy Spirit is speaking. Your efforts to make scripture contradict itself is a Jehovah's Witness trick.
Back to the drawing board for you.
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = Jehovah2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Yes, it was the Holy Spirit talking, but I listed a verse that plainly states that the Holy Spirit ONLY SPEAKS WHAT IT HEARS. Therefore, it is not speaking on its own initiative. If you cannot accept this then consider this my last communication on this because you happen to be the most spiritually blind person I've encountered on this board thus far.Back to the drawing board indeed. Back to Sunday School for 1st graders for you.
Quote (kejonn @ July 26 2007,00:05) Quote (Cult Buster @ July 24 2007,16:44) Kejonn. You still have a problem. The scripture clearly states that Jehovah the Holy Spirit is speaking. Your efforts to make scripture contradict itself is a Jehovah's Witness trick.
Back to the drawing board for you.
Compare
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH) I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD (JEHOVAH): for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD (JEHOVAH): for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.With
Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Conclusion. The Holy Ghost = Jehovah2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Yes, it was the Holy Spirit talking, but I listed a verse that plainly states that the Holy Spirit ONLY SPEAKS WHAT IT HEARS. Therefore, it is not speaking on its own initiative. If you cannot accept this then consider this my last communication on this because you happen to be the most spiritually blind person I've encountered on this board thus far.Back to the drawing board indeed. Back to Sunday School for 1st graders for you.
Hi Everyone!Sorry I am back! Looks like I have some catching up to do.
Especially you t8. Dont you feel special?
Kejonn!
First just a short question for you!
From what translation did you get “ONLY SPEAKS WHAT IT HEARS”?
The NWT?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 26 2007,01:29)
Hi Everyone!Sorry I am back! Looks like I have some catching up to do.
Especially you t8. Dont you feel special?
Kejonn!
First just a short question for you!
From what translation did you get “ONLY SPEAKS WHAT IT HEARS”?
The NWT?
Nope only JWs and CB use that translation. That was just a paraphrase to help CB understand what the verse says. Here they are once more, so they can be read (John 16:13):NASB: “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
GWT: When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into the full truth. He won't speak on his own. He will speak what he hears and will tell you about things to come.
KJV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
ASV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
BBE: However, when he, the Spirit of true knowledge, has come, he will be your guide into all true knowledge: for his words will not come from himself, but whatever has come to his hearing, that he will say: and he will make clear to you the things to come.
DBY: But when he is come, the Spirit of truth, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but whatsoever he shall hear he shall speak; and he will announce to you what is coming.
ERV: Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
WEY: But when He has come–the Spirit of Truth–He will guide you into all the truth. For He will not speak as Himself originating what He says, but all that He hears He will speak, and He will make known the future to you.
WBS: But, when he, the Spirit of truth is come, he will guide you into all the truth: for he will not speak from himself; but whatever he shall hear, that will he speak: and he will show you things to come.Quote (Not3in1 @ July 26 2007,18:44) Welcome back, WJ. I wondered where you were……
not3Thanks! Hope you and yours are well!
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 23 2007,13:39) God certainly is ONE Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Joh 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.Christ and The Father are ONE. They are ONE God.
Nick. If you don't like God's mathematics, then I cannot help you. Don't get angry at me. It's from the Bible.
Here we go again.Round and round.
It is also written that we should be one and one with God and one with Christ.
You conveniently ignore that, but it is of such importance that it was Jesus prayer before being taken for crucifixion.
So are we part of the one God too?
No of course not.
Back to the bible CultB and really you shouldn't keep repeating the same thing, without also addressing John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
It would be the honest thing to do, i.e., when you teach your interpretation of Jesus and the Father being one, that you also include John 17:21. Otherwise we will just ignore your rants, as that is all it is unless you are able to also teach how it fits with John 17:21.
NOTE: If we are not God, then how can you say that this same oneness is teaching that Jesus and the Father are the same God?
Be honest. Just quoting in part and excluding that which contradicts what you teach is dishonest. CultB you know that John 17:21 exists you have been shown it many times.
Honesty is best for you and others.
t8. So maybe you will one day understand God's mathematics where God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are ONE God. They are different to your “another Jesus” and “another spirit”.
Come out of her!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Quote (Cult Buster @ July 30 2007,02:01) t8. So maybe you will one day understand God's mathematics where God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are ONE God. They are different to your “another Jesus” and “another spirit”. Come out of her!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%2….m
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Ummmm. But it is written that we can be one and one with the Father and the son.Should I throw that out because it weakens one of the pillars of your Trinity Doctrine i.e., that Jesus and the Father are one?
No of course not. I embrace the fact that I can be one with the body and one with Christ and one with God. In fact it was so important that Jesus prayed this before being taken for crucification.
So to be clear, I would have to ignore Christ's prayer for us in order to follow CultB.
But I am not interested in swapping truth and oneness for any cult. Cult A, B, or Omega Cult.
You always say come out of her, CultB, but then you offer me doctrine that would put me inside the Mother of Cults.
That is the most ironic thing of all.
Perhaps you need to heed your own message. “Come out”.
OK.
There is a Father.
There is a son.
There is a Spirit.Q: How many are God?
A: 1.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Ephesians 4:4-6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Quote (t8 @ July 31 2007,21:54) OK. There is a Father.
There is a son.
There is a Spirit.Q: How many are God?
A: 1.1 Corinthians 8:5-6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Ephesians 4:4-6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
t8Glad to see you acknowledge three.
Father = Spirit
Son = Spirit
Spirit = SpiritHow many Spirits did you receive? Is the Father living in you? Is the Son living in you? Is the Holy Spirit Living in you?
Is the Spirit of God the Spirit of Christ dwelling in you? Did you drink of the one selfsame Spirit?
You quote…
Quote
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
You quote…
Quote
Ephesians 4:4-6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
You quote…
Quote
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Zechariah 12:10
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.And
John 19:33-37
33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, “NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN.” 37And again another Scripture says, “THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED.https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;t=1311
Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Isa 6
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, [is] the LORD of hosts: the whole earth [is] full of his glory.And…
John 12:41
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Isa 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.And…
Matt 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
Matt 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
Jn 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Rom 9:5 NIV
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Acts 7:59,60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:Acts 20:28
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Phil 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Ch
rist;Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Jude 1:
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.And
Rev 22:12,13
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 31 2007,17:23) You quote… Quote
1 Corinthians 8:5-6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
It doesn't say he isn't the Great Pumpkin either. Charlie Brown,look out! But the verse does go to extremes and say there is one God, the Father. Not “one person of God, the Father”, or “one God, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit”.Quote You quote… Quote
Ephesians 4:4-6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
Nor does it say that Jesus is not an angel. But we know better than that don't we.Quote You quote… Quote
John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Nope, it dosnt say Jesus is not God!
And it doesn't say Jesus is not Moses, but why not? He's in the Bible too.Quote Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Nope, says “his name shall be called”. You do know that “God” is not a name, right? Show me in the scripture where YHWH said “My name is God”.BTW, if he is “Mighty God” is he “Eternal Father” too? If so, that's not Trinity, that's modalism or Oneness. Why does no one ever talk about that part of the “name”?
Quote Zechariah 12:10
“I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.And
John 19:33-37
33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe. 36For these things came to pass to fulfill the Scripture, “NOT A BONE OF HIM SHALL BE BROKEN.” 37And again another Scripture says, “THEY SHALL LOOK ON HIM WHOM THEY PIERCED.
Refer to the way John renders this verse. Very interesting when you note that all of the other times John uses an OT reference, he maintains the pronouns. Strange that “Me” in Zech 12:10 becomes “HIM” in John 19:37. Since John had access to better manuscripts, who do you think has it right, modern versions, or John? Makes ya think real hard.Isa 6
1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, [is] the LORD of hosts: the whole earth [is] full of his glory.And…
John 12:41
These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Ummmm…..yeah. Er, no. You do know that Is 6:3 links to Rev 4, right? Rev 4 is ALL about God alone. No mention of the Son or the Lamb AT ALL. Where do you get that this is Yeshua? Please be more clear here because this is one of the biggest stretches you've used thus far.Quote Isa 40:3
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.And…
Matt 3:3
For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Egad, someone sure confused things when they decided to take YHWH out of the OT and replace with LORD. Some say the KJV started it but they would be wrong. It started (I think) with the Septuagint.Anyway, OT reference, straight from the Septuagint.
Is 40:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight the paths of our God.
Note that Lord is not in small caps here because the Septuagint was in Greek. Also note that “Lord” was not used of Yeshua in Matthew until Matt 7:21. All instances prior to this were in reference to YHWH of the OT.Quote John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
No, it says the Word was God.Quote Matt 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
No again. Yeow. His name was to mean “God with us”. I'm still wondering though, why was he then named Yeshua (Jesus) and not Emmanuel? Anyways,2Cr 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the
ministry of reconciliation,
2Cr 5:19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.BTW, Elijah meant “God the Lord” or “God Jehovah”. Eliashib means “The God of conversion”. Eliel – “God, my God”. Elihoreph – “God of winter”. Eliphalet – “The God of deliverance”. Elisha – “salvation of God”. Need I continue? These names are all found in the Bible BTW.
Quote Jn 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Hey, finally! But alas, no fanfare. BTW, why did Peter not call Yeshua God in the next chapter?Jhn 21:15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus *said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.”
Jhn 21:16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He *said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.”
Jhn 21:17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.Peter had 3 opportunities to call Yeshua God and worship him. Nope, didn't do it.
Also, the beloved disciple, who wrote the book of John, did not call Yeshua God either
Jhn 21:7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved said to Peter, “It is the Lord.” So when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he put his outer garment on (for he was stripped for work), and threw himself into the sea.
I guess they didn't agree with Thomas, eh? Or maybe it wasn't what you think it was. Hmmmmm….
Quote Rom 9:5 NIV
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Alright, its a famous “Jesus is God if you use the right Bible”! Seriously, weak way to develop your theology.NASB: whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
KJV: Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
ASV: whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
DBY: whose are the fathers; and of whom, as according to flesh, is the Christ, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
ERV: whose are the fathers, and of whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
WEY: To them the Patriarchs belong, and from them in respect of His human lineage came the Christ, who is exalted above all, God blessed throughout the Ages. Amen.
WBS: Whose are the fathers, and from whom according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
WEB: of whom are the fathers, and from whom is Christ as concerning the flesh, who is over all, God, blessed forever. Amen.
YLT: whose are the fathers, and of whom is the Christ, according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed to the ages. Amen.So its “Yes, Yeshua is God”…if you use the NIV. Other versions? Nope. Better stock up on extra copies of the NIV
.Quote Acts 7:59,60
While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.”
Then he fell on his knees and cried out, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” When he had said this, he fell asleep.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Really? Where? Stephen prayed “Lord Jesus” not “God”. Wait, let me look it up in other versions….NASB: They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
GWT: While council members were executing Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, welcome my spirit.”
ASV: And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
ERV: And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
WEB: They stoned Stephen as he called out, saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!”
YLT: and they were stoning Stephen, calling and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit;'Yet another “You too can believe in the Trinity if you use the right Bible translation” verse. Weak.
Quote 1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Huh? What's this one doing in here?Quote Acts 20:28
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.Yep it does say Jesus is God!
Huh again? Are you getting sleepy or something?
How do you pull these together to say that Jesus is God? By using “Church of God”? These are new for Trinitarian defense. And very very weak. Did you forget this verseJhn 17:10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.
Judging by the above, I suppose you did.
Quote Rom 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
It does? Where? I see Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ. One says you are in the Spirit and not the flesh if the Spirit of God is in you, and the other says you do not belong to Christ if you do not have the Spirit of Christ. Seems reasonable to me.Quote Phil 2:6
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Let's see God is spirit, and John 1:1 says that the Word was God, so the Word was spirit, so in form he was equal with God. OK. So? The next verses complete the picture.Phl 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
Phl 2:8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.So the Word was spirit as God is spirit. He relinquished this spirit form to take a new form: that of a bond-servant, or man. Flesh. Subject to temptation.
And your point is….?
Quote 1 Tim 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
It does? Where? Oh yeah, I forgot you guys use alot of implication.Manifest – “To show or demonstrate plainly; reveal”.
So Yeshua was God demonstrated in the flesh? Yes, Yeshua did reveal God to men, he is the image of the invisible God. I can't see invisible things, can you? Anyway…
NIV: Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
GWT: The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in his human nature, was approved by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was announced throughout the nations, was believed in the world, and was taken to heaven in glory.
ERV: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, received up in glory.
BBE: And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh, who was given God's approval in the spirit, was seen by the angels, of whom the good news was given among the nations, in whom the world had faith, who was taken up in glory.
NLT: Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ appeared in the flesh and was shown to be righteous by the Spirit. He was seen by angels and was announced to the nations. He was believed on in the world and was taken up into heaven.
RSV: Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
WEY: And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion– that Christ appeared in human form, and His claims justified by the Spirit, was seen by angels and proclaimed among Gentile nations, was believed on in the world, and received up again into glory.
ASV: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.What? Yet another “Yes Virginia, Jesus can be God if you use the right Bible translation” verse. Bruce Metzger writes of the above verse:
[“He who”] is supported by the earliest and best uncials…no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports theos; all ancient versions presuppose hos or ho [“he who” or “he”]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading theos. The reading theos arose either (a) accidentally, or (b) deliberately, either to supply a substantive for the following six verbs [the six verbs that follow in the verse], or, with less probability, to provide greater dogmatic precision .”
I find it rather amazing that more Trinitarian corruption has not occurred to the Bible. Thank God!
Quote Heb 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
No doubt. Too bad that this is from Psalm 45 which is about an earthly king. If an earthly king can be called God, I guess Yeshua can too.Quote 1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
You and I have gone over this one already.Quote Titus 2:13
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Maybe, depends on how you look at this. If you are an English major, or proficient with English you know how. Oh yeah, and this is another “depends on what Bible” verse. Let's look at some othersNASB: looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus
GWT: At the same time we can expect what we hope for-the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
WEB: looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ;
Webster: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God, and our Savior Jesus Christ;
NLV: We are to be looking for the great hope and the coming of our great God and the One Who saves, Christ Jesus.
HCSB: while we wait for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.Now, with proper English application, one can see that the if we take the NASB rendering, Christ Jesus is “the glory of our great God and Savior”. The same can be said of HCSB, GWT, WEB. the NLV and Webster have a slightly different twist. In any case, context shows that a few verses back we see
Tts 2:10 not pilfering, but showing all good faith so that they will adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in every respect.
God our Savior, which no Christ mentioned. Leap ahead to 2:13 and you see that the glory of the our Great God and Savior is Jesus Christ. Yes indeed, he is the glory of God.
Quote Jude 1:
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Say huh? Says “God our sav
ior”? Where do you see Jesus in these verses? I see him but not in the translation you providedNASB: to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
GWT: Before time began, now, and for eternity glory, majesty, power, and authority belong to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.
ASV: to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and power, before all time, and now, and for evermore. Amen.
BBE: To the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, let us give glory and honour and authority and power, before all time and now and for ever. So be it.
DBY: to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, might, and authority, from before the whole age, and now, and to all the ages. Amen.
ERV: to the only God our Saviour, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and power, before all time, and now, and for evermore. Amen.
WEY: to the only God our Saviour–through Jesus Christ our Lord, be ascribed glory, majesty, might, and authority, as it was before all time, is now, and shall be to all the Ages! Amen.But those don't say Jesus is God either. Oh well, thanks for trying.
Quote Rev 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
This verse is about God, not Yeshua. You need to stop using versions that only support your theology.NASB: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
GWT: “I am the A and the Z,” says the Lord God, the one who is, the one who was, and the one who is coming, the Almighty.
ASV: I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
BBE: I am the First and the Last, says the Lord God who is and was and is to come, the Ruler of all.
DBY: I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
ERV: I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith the Lord God, which is and which was and which is to come, the Almighty.
WEY: “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “He who is and was and evermore will be–the Ruler of all.”
WEB: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, ” says the Lord God,Quote Rev 22:12,13
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.Yep, it does say Jesus is God!
Nope, God again. Read the chapter in context, starting around verse 22:6, “the God of the spirits of the prophets”. Alpha and Omega – God, First and Last – can be either but Alpha and Omega sets the tone (as does 22:6). BTW, the angel speaking on behalf of God said in 22:7 “And behold, I am coming quickly” so that takes away that phrase being used only for Yeshua.That was lot of work WJ! I need to get some sleep after that long post. Good night, and god bless!
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 01 2007,16:34) That was lot of work WJ! I need to get some sleep after that long post. Good night, and god bless!
Yeah thanks kejonn.Saves me answering him.
Hello Kejonn, hope you have been keeping well. I only have a little time so just wanted to pick up on a few of your points, if I may.
Quote (kejonn @ Aug. 01 2007,16:34) No doubt. Too bad that this is from Psalm 45 which is about an earthly king. If an earthly king can be called God, I guess Yeshua can too.
Yes the context of this verse in Psalm 45 apparently deals with an earthly king, but it is not at all unusual for NT writers to take a verse in the OT that ostensibly deals with one subject and apply it to another. I think it’s far more important to look at the context that the writer of Hebrews put Psalm 45:6 into, than the context of the passage it came from. The writer applied it to Jesus, therefore, by default, Psalm 45:6 is a Messianic verse. I tend to think that the NT writer correctly handle scripture and have a Holy Spirit-inspired understanding of these OT texts that far surpasses ours. Or maybe you have some inside knowledge on Psa 45:6 that the writer of Hebrews wasn’t privy to Kejonn? Quote Nope, God again. Read the chapter in context, starting around verse 22:6, “the God of the spirits of the prophets”. Alpha and Omega – God, First and Last – can be either but Alpha and Omega sets the tone (as does 22:6). BTW, the angel speaking on behalf of God said in 22:7 “And behold, I am coming quickly” so that takes away that phrase being used only for Yeshua.
If God (the Father) is speaking through an angel here (and that's debatable) then that implies He is “coming quickly”.Q) Are we told elsewhere in NT scripture that the Father is “coming quickly”?
Q) Are we told elsewhere in NT scripture that Yeshua is?
Blessings
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