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WJ,
Most perhaps. I must admit that they make a far stretch with this whole “Babylon” thing. I'm not the slightest bit convinced and I wish they would stop mentioning it. To me it is another “fear” tactic; that is, if you believe in the Trinity you have something to do with this whole “Babylon” thing. I'm going to need more evidence than heavy eisigesis (sp?).
I don't think you've seen that of me yet. I think most Trinitarians know the the relationship of Jesus with the Father. If they've responded to the Gospel than this Trinitarian doctrine is extra IMO. I just want to see people on both sides come together and admit that neither one is entirely certain of the truth, because you must face the fact that there is no definitive truth. One verse will support, one will refute. I have no idea what God was doing when He allowed this to come into the Bible, but there is a reason, we just don't know it. Perhaps He really does not want us to be so adamant about who is wrong or right, but to love one another as He loves us. It is just another form of division.
I don't want this division to exist. What I do want is to not be called a heretic because I doubt what I do view as an extra-biblical doctrine. I can come to grips more so with the equality of the Son and the Father than I can with making the Holy Spirit as the 3rd person of the Trinity. Where does that come from? All of the posts go on and on about Father-Son, with nothing really resolved, but the Holy Spirit is just thrown in for extra measure it seems to round out to 3 instead of 2 who are bound by the Spirit.
The Bible says “God is spirit”. No doubt, but are we talking about the Father, the Son, or the Holy Spirit. Or all 3? We know the Son took on flesh, but is inhabited and empowered by Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a given
. So that leaves the Father. See how it becomes ambiguous?And what then do we do with such painfully clear scriptures such as 1st Cor. 8:6 which says “there is but one God, the Father”. How do we read that any differently than it is stated? How then can we say that Jesus is God as well, when this verse says “no is only one God, the Father”? If we're then trying to say Jesus=God, we must accept that Son=Father in all that there is. That presents a whole new set of issues.
I wish I knew the answer but I don't.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 05 2007,18:40) K Tell you what, You show us where Jesus said he “was not God” and we will show you were he said he was.
Oh and by the way the rule is you have to do it in light of John 1:1 and John 20:28, and Heb 1:8.
Also it has to be “Unambiguous” and not grey.
Also maybe you could grace us with your scriptural “Proof” the Trinitarian faith is not true by using scripture.
BTW. It has to be “Unambiguous”. Not just the usuall “Trinity is false”, Trinity is not written” “Trinity is of the Whore”.
I see you do a lot of that, but give us no scriptural proof of what you say.
Notice these statements… “Trinity is false”, Trinity is not written” “Trinity is of the Whore”. are not in the Bible either!
WJ,Kinda missed this one. You must be speaking of someone else. I try my best to back everything up with scripture. It is the final authority on spiritual matters IMO. And as stated before, I've never called the Trinity whore or anything of the sort. I'm not so bold.
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