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Quote (t8 @ July 15 2007,01:43) Quote (kejonn @ July 15 2007,01:14) In other posts, I have mentioned that the first time I ever heard about the Trinity, I thought its was strange. I heard it presented in many different ways. I heard people say “Jesus is God” and then sermons that spoke of Yeshua prayed to God. These were weird to me but since I was still on the milk in those days, I just figured that people who had been Christians longer than me knew what they were talking about.
Hi kejonn.I remember the first time at school when I was taught that we came from monkeys, it seemed truly strange to me. I didn't get that same feeling when I was taught Trinity the first time, just after I became a follower of Christ because like yourself I was on the milk of the word and wasn't in a position to question.
I also trusted Christians wouldn't do me wrong. I was rather naive I think. My background before becoming a Christian was pretty dark at times and I had been an atheist most of my life. I always saw Christians as do gooders and when I became one myself, I naively thought that they would only teach me truth and help me.
It wasn't long before that myth was shattered as you can imagine. It was never my idea, but a conviction in my heart led me to challenge all things, and I am so glad that I listened and obeyed. Otherwise I could have ended up with a form of religion instead of a living relationship with my creator.
There is a difference and at times in my life I have erred into tradition. It was always noticeable when this happened because I always got that “I am bored with my life” feeling and felt like giving up the race and sin started looking attractive.
I think I had a lot of excuses to give up when I was a young Christian from things I witnessed in denominations, but I think perseverance helped me immensely and not confusing the works of men with what God does.
It is exciting to walk down the path to truth. You start to love truth will all your heart after a while. I think our love for truth reflects our love for Christ who is the truth.
Thanks for your post.
You might be interested in the following vision:
Wow! t8 I enjoyed that! And it's sooo true isn't it.I'm reminded of WJ and his “many” works that the trinty boys do!
I'm also reminded of Vatican City!
Thanks again!!!!
Ken,
We all have our beliefs. I too believed in the Trinity but am almost to the point of disbelief of it. I still hold on to it in some small way because 20 years is hard to get over. Plus, the human side of me wants fellowship with others and when you disbelieve the Trinity and people know it, many will break fellowship with you. I know we should not be concerned about that if we truly believe God is showing us truth, but it is still hard to go against the grain. Again, a human failing.
But I think it is wrong that you bring WJ into your post the way you do. You make it seem that WJ is purposely trying to mislead. I don't think so. I see in his posts someone who believes he has the truth as well. As do Muslims you speak with, as do Jews, as do any other religions. Even agnostics and atheists. They all think they are right. Faith is all in the heart, so how can we dare say they are wrong when they are right in their own heart? We can only live our lives according to our rolemodel, Yeshua, and hope that others will see the joy that coves from serving the living God. It is then between them and God. Its the most personal of relationships.
Quote (Mr. Steve @ July 14 2007,06:51) Cult Buster; You should apply the same advice that you give to Kejonn to your belief in the trinity. I'd like to pose a question to you and anyone else interested in replying. When the scripture says “In the beginning… John 1:1, When was the beginning to which John referred? Was it the same as Gen. 1:1? Was it at the start of the current age? Is God telling us in John 1:1 that we should not attempt to articulate doctrine before this time? If God wants us to limit our doctrine to the Word revealed to us, are we presumptous in stating doctrine based on what we believe must have been before the start of this current age? If Christ taught us that he was with the Father before the foundation of the world, did he intend us to deem Christ eternal. Hence, the eternal sonship doctrine. If eternal Sonship only means that Christ was the Son of God and with the Father before the world began, how might this affect our doctrinal stance for or against the trinity? It is absolutely certain that the scriptures indicate that the Son has been with the Father before creation. When Christ prayed to the Father and said he was with the Father before the world began, was he substantiating eternal sonship? Christ used the word eternal, but not when he referred to his relationship with the Father. Most trinitarians would draw the conclusion of eternality from the phrase, before the world was, but before the world was means before the world was it does not mean eternal, which is in harmony with the rest of scripture. I'm interested in your feedback.
Good one Mr Steve.What you say is true and wise.
Quote (kenrch @ July 15 2007,03:23) Wow! t8 I enjoyed that! And it's sooo true isn't it.
Thanks for the encouragement Kenrch.Quote (kejonn @ July 15 2007,04:46) Ken, We all have our beliefs. I too believed in the Trinity but am almost to the point of disbelief of it. I still hold on to it in some small way because 20 years is hard to get over. Plus, the human side of me wants fellowship with others and when you disbelieve the Trinity and people know it, many will break fellowship with you. I know we should not be concerned about that if we truly believe God is showing us truth, but it is still hard to go against the grain. Again, a human failing.
But I think it is wrong that you bring WJ into your post the way you do. You make it seem that WJ is purposely trying to mislead. I don't think so. I see in his posts someone who believes he has the truth as well. As do Muslims you speak with, as do Jews, as do any other religions. Even agnostics and atheists. They all think they are right. Faith is all in the heart, so how can we dare say they are wrong when they are right in their own heart? We can only live our lives according to our rolemodel, Yeshua, and hope that others will see the joy that coves from serving the living God. It is then between them and God. Its the most personal of relationships.
Hi KJ,
Trinity denies the Son of God.
It is better to be rejected now but welcomed later.
Read of the man born blind. He was thrown out of the synagogue for telling the truth but Jesus went looking for him.John 9
1And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.2And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
4I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.
6When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,
7And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.
8The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?
9Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.
10Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?
11He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
12Then said they unto him, Where is he? He said, I know not.
13They brought to the Pharisees him that aforetime was blind.
14And it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes.
15Then again the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. He said unto them, He put clay upon mine eyes, and I washed, and do see.
16Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day. Others said, How can a man that is a sinner do such miracles? And there was a division among them.
17They say unto the blind man again, What sayest thou of him, that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet.
18But the Jews did not believe concerning him, that he had been blind, and received his sight, until they called the parents of him that had received his sight.
19And they asked them, saying, Is this your son, who ye say was born blind? how then doth he now see?
20His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind:
21But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself.
22These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
23Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
24Then again called they the man that was blind, and said unto him, Give God the praise: we know that this man is a sinner.
25He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
26Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
27He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
28Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses' disciples.
29We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.
30The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
31Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
32Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
34They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.
35Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
39And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.
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