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Quote (Gene @ Aug. 02 2009,04:30) Thinker…………..TRANSCENDENCE VERSUS IMMANENCE ? 
Thats a good Catholic approach to simple truths, but then again if one is confused He must go to every trick and turn to try to turn something simple to complexity. Thinker dump the False teaching of the TRINITY and come to the Light of Simplicity of the GOSPEL Preached to us by Jesus our Brother, the Great King. Why do you trinitarians try so hard to complicate things, is it because your (MYSTERY) Religion doesn't work right?. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
Gene,
You siad that Jesus is the “great King.” Well….thinker
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ Aug. 02 2009,05:42) Kathi, Trinitarians never claim that God CAN'T reproduce, we claim that he DID NOT reproduce. We are not questioning God's ability here, we are merely stating what he did and what he did not do based on what Scripture tells us.
TC27
TC,
I greatly appreciate your contributions here. But God CANNOT reproduce. Please show a trinitarian that says this.thanks,
thinkerQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 01 2009,14:03) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,13:55) Hi TC,
And where does scripture tell you that He did not reproduce?
Thanks,
Kathi
Hi KathiAnd where does the scriptures tell you that he did?
WJ
Keith,
Does GOD, the Father of Jesus, claim Him to be His only begotten Son? Yes! John 3:16
Does that son have the same nature of His Father? Heb 1:3
Yes again!How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body. How that works in GOD I do not know but that doesn't matter how that works. He has a one-of-a kind Son who existed in the beginning, who shares His nature and was with Him. They are united in Spirit and love and purpose and both necessary for our salvation.
Bless you,
Kathi
Hi KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41) How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body. More extra-Biblical language!
WJ
Lightenup said:
Quote Please show me where “begotten Son” is used as a proper name. Kathi,
What kind of question is this? It is a proper name no matter how Jesus was begotten. This is starting to get ridiculous and your question reflects that you are desperate. God did not and cannot reproduce and the whole idea is pagan.Micah 5:2 offers you no support for this idea whatsoever. The ancient families from which Messiah came are identified explicitly as the “clans of Judah” (NIV). It bears repeating that your twist that it is “ancient families of God Himself” is sheer nonsense. I will repeat also that I confess both the pre-existence and divinity of Christ. But Micah 5:2 in context offers no support for such. It is about His human origin from the ancient families of Judah. Please take a spiritual sedative to slow down your over active imagination.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 02 2009,10:24) Hi TT,
Your vain pursuit of your possible implications as a hope of proving Jesus is not God's son but God Himself is futility itself.
How much longer will you waste time charging at windmills instead of seeking truth?
Nick,
Is Jesus King of kings? Yes or no! Show where the Father is called the Son's King.thinker
Hi TT,
So unless you can find the exact terminology you require you will not believe Jesus when he says he is the Son of God and that the Father is God?WorshippingJesus said to Kathi:
Quote ight does not give birth to offspring! I realize this is a metaphor, but the metaphor has to have some resemblence to reality! Keith,
Exactly! Kathi's employment of the metaphor has no resemblance to reality. Hebrews 1 says that Christ is the “radiance” of God's glory. The metaphor of light coming from light in this statement does not mean that light is the “offspring” of light. As the “radiance” (or brightness) of God's glory Jesus is the extension of God's glory. The sun light that touches us is NOT “offspring” of the sun. It is the extension of the sun.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 02 2009,11:01) Hi TT,
So unless you can find the exact terminology you require you will not believe Jesus when he says he is the Son of God and that the Father is God?
Nick,
Be careful that you do not become a false witness. It is a serious matter to bear false witness. I have always confessed here without any ambiguous language that the Father was the God of Jesus. What I deny is that the Father is Jesus' King. The scripture is clear that Jesus is King of kings. So I ask you agian: Is Jesus the King of kings or not?You have said that “Lord” and “God” do not mean the same thing. Therefore, when Jesus said that the Father is His God He did not mean that the Father is His lord or His king. Either re-define your terms or concede that Jesus never claimed that the Father was His Lord or King. If you re-define and equate the terms “Lord” and “God” then Jesus is God because He is Lord. You are cornered Nick. You cornered yourself when you said that “Lord” and “God” are not equal terms. This works for me.
thinker
Hi TT,
So in your TRIPARTITE GOD you have several layers of godhood?Is Jesus somehow the god of the God's Spirit or how does this work?
Hi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,10:20) Hi Thinker,
Sorry to annoy you but that helped me. I want to show you that there is a difference between genneo (Strong's 1080) and monogenes (Strong's 3439). Both words mean begotten but the later, monogenes, takes on a specific emphasis. That specific emphasis is that the one referred to as begotten, monogenes, is a unique begotten or an only begotten or a one of a kind begotten.
The truth is the word “monogenes” does not mean “begotten”.The word for begat, begotten, throughout the NT is “Strong's G1080 – gennaō” and means Born, it is not the same word for “ was made” in John 1:14 which is “ginomai” and means 1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.
Monogenes or “Mono ginomai” simply means” only One of its kind”. The word begotten is misleading in John 1:14, and 18 because of its relation to the “Word” that was in the beginning with God and was God.
WJ
Hi WJ,
MONOS does give that meaning but GENES is to do with origins.
UNIQUE is not the complete and accurate meaning.Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41)
How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.The above statement by the lady is an example why Paul told women to be quiet
Quote (squirrel @ Aug. 02 2009,19:57) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41)
How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.The above statement by the lady is an example why Paul told women to be quiet
Let me ask you a Question? Do you really believe that women today go by that? I don't think so. Woman are even Ministers. We are in the end times and things will go haywire.
But as far as Kathi is concerned She believes in a lot of truths, and so do I and I am a Woman too. So please don't short change us.
Peace and Love IreneLightenup said:
Quote How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.
Kathi,
So God has a body now? You should have conceded when you had the chance.thinker
Quote (squirrel @ Aug. 02 2009,19:57) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41)
How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.The above statement by the lady is an example why Paul told women to be quiet
Squirrel,
Kathi's view of God is way out there for sure. However, Paul's mandate for women to keep silent has been discontinued. If you want to discuss it then start a separate thread.thinker
Irene said:
Quote Let me ask you a Question? Do you really believe that women today go by that? I don't think so. Woman are even Ministers. We are in the end times and things will go haywire. Irene,
I do not support squirrel's view of the role of women. However, it appears as if you are saying that women may teach because things have gone “haywire.” If this is what you mean the you are in agreement with squirrel. For if things were not “haywire” it would be men only doing the speaking. Do I understand you correctly?Paul's mandate for women to keep silent has been discontinued “haywire” or no “haywire.”
thinker
thinker What I meant that woman Ministers should not be, I am against that. I know some will not agree with me on that. However woman have a say in what should come about any subject. We are aloud to have an opinion. We are aloud to speak. I hope I made myself clear.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (squirrel @ Aug. 02 2009,03:57) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,16:41)
How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.The above statement by the lady is an example why Paul told women to be quiet
Ok big man called squirrel,
I suppose you think you are smart…please convince us.
Why don't you tell us all what the light of day one is. How about after that tell us all how a virgin conceived. Then you tell us how that which was conceived was the root of David. Then tell us how Jesus is both fully God and fully man. Then tell us all where the terms: triune, trinity, three-in-one, first person, second person, third person, co-eternal, co-equal, and eternal generation is in the Bible….cause you are a big man and I am just a woman, therefore I should keep silent according to you and let the men speak. Have you read some of the things men say here?Looking forward to all those answers from a real man.
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 02 2009,06:03) Lightenup said: Quote How did GOD Himself design that to come about? Well, not by taking one thing and making something completely different. It was by reproduction…fruit from His own body.
Kathi,
So God has a body now? You should have conceded when you had the chance.thinker
Thinker,
Why don't you explain why Moses saw His form?Don't be shy now.
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